Is anthrogenica.com gone?

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I read lots of rubbish about racism of the moderators at that site.............there was no indications of certain types of people being banned....I saw from British, to Americans, to Italians, Slavs, and middle easterners, africans and asians all being banned ....there was no banning of members due to the race or ethnicity.
the flaw of the site was allowing linguistic threads which began these "racist" comments ..............and the abuse one got if they got involved with these linguistic groups
Lesson for Eupedia

I don't agree with you here, Torzio. There were many other "sensible topics" that got certain moderators in rage against those who dared to disagree. There definitely were certain obsessions amongst moderators, and the by them favoured users e. g. Levantine ancestry obsession in Southern Europeans etc. I literally saw people get banned because they opposed the idea of strong "Levantine genetic input" in Southern Europeans :LOL:

Not to forget moderators such as Coldmountains of Afghan ethnicity and his obsession with "Proto-Aryans", the list goes on and on.
 
I can't see in the genetic literature anything that resembles in any sort an "anti-levantinist" or anti-MENA bias.

I didn't say anything about bias, I just expressed my bewilderment on why it's taken so long for the Reich lab and the Moots/Antonio team to acknowledge what their data show.

I suggest you re-read the papers since the data show that: 1) 3/4 of the near easterner foreigners in Rome in Antonio 2019 were Anatolians who lacked any detectable Levantine ancestry (look up how the near easterners from the danubian limes paper are modelled), all but one in the Serbia were Anatolians, 2) furthermore the data strongly suggest they didn't leave much of a trace (that is expect at most single digit % at the very most, some exotic haplogroup most likely).

You mean they didn't leave "much of a trace" in Serbia? Or in Italy, Greece, Albania, Bulgaria, N. Macedonia? Because I can assure you the Anatolian admixture in the latter groups is definitely not in the single digits. As for the 'exotic haplogroups' (I assume you mean J2a, J1, G-M406, T etc), they're found in abundance in modern southern Italy and Greece so we don't need to play detectives here.

I don't have an opinion on whether that shift could've been mediated entirely through Anatolians, maybe that's possible. But you forgot to mention that all post-Chalcolithic Anatolians carried Levantine Neolithic ancestry.

Last but not least, the Anatolians in antiquity (as far as they are modelled in the Danubian paper) were roughly half Anatolia_BA and half Balkan_IA, so it can be hard to tell apart their gene flow from Greeks', and the Danubian paper shows no need of such ancestry to explain why modern Balkanites are in the C11 cluster (plot twist: populations as the Greeks and the Thracians,judging from one sample . were already "MENA-shifted" compared to other European populations, thanks to higher caucasus-related ancestry stemming back to the BA).

I wonder why such obvious data are glossed over when talking about modern SE europeans.

You misread the paper, these were Roman-era Serbians that were modelled as half-Anatolian BA and half-Balkan IA. Not Anatolians from Anatolia.

Also, Bulgaria_IA and Aegean_BA are not particularly close to Anatolians when you take a closer look and they can't explain the NE shift on their own:

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michalis from anthrogenica in a post today in apricity :

Getting the word out:

Yes, Anthrogenica (which I co-founded in 2012) is currently down, most likely because of a domain name expiration. I have reached out to the administrator (I know him personally) but have not been able to get a hold of him yet. I'm hoping some mutual friends will be able to help, but I am not optimistic at the moment. Hopefully we will get to the bottom of what's going on and save the forum, but you never know what's going on in someone's life.
In the meantime, AG's community will exist in Discord form. We've always needed a place to go when the forum was down anyway (for maintenance, DDOS attacks, etc.). If you are an AG refugee, please email me ([email protected]) and tell me who you were on the forum so I can approve you and send you a Discord invite. AG is a non-ethnocentric, cosmopolitan community; there's no serious alternative to it out there that I know of. We're going to find a way to keep the community together because it would be a tremendous loss to the hobbyist community if the cultured forum we've built over the past decade were to just disappear. I'm hoping this Discord will suffice as a meeting place for now.

p.s
he also posted it in eurogenes blog
so if you are anthrogenica refugees you have were to go
:LOL:
 
michalis from anthrogenica in a post today in apricity :

Getting the word out:

Yes, Anthrogenica (which I co-founded in 2012) is currently down, most likely because of a domain name expiration. I have reached out to the administrator (I know him personally) but have not been able to get a hold of him yet. I'm hoping some mutual friends will be able to help, but I am not optimistic at the moment. Hopefully we will get to the bottom of what's going on and save the forum, but you never know what's going on in someone's life.
In the meantime, AG's community will exist in Discord form. We've always needed a place to go when the forum was down anyway (for maintenance, DDOS attacks, etc.). If you are an AG refugee, please email me ([email protected]) and tell me who you were on the forum so I can approve you and send you a Discord invite. AG is a non-ethnocentric, cosmopolitan community; there's no serious alternative to it out there that I know of. We're going to find a way to keep the community together because it would be a tremendous loss to the hobbyist community if the cultured forum we've built over the past decade were to just disappear. I'm hoping this Discord will suffice as a meeting place for now.

p.s
he also posted it in eurogenes blog
so if you are anthrogenica refugees you have were to go
:LOL:

I just hope someone has made a back up. Because a domain can be bought, things can be set up - with access to a back up.
 
michalis from anthrogenica in a post today in apricity :

Getting the word out:

Yes, Anthrogenica (which I co-founded in 2012) is currently down, most likely because of a domain name expiration. I have reached out to the administrator (I know him personally) but have not been able to get a hold of him yet. I'm hoping some mutual friends will be able to help, but I am not optimistic at the moment. Hopefully we will get to the bottom of what's going on and save the forum, but you never know what's going on in someone's life.
In the meantime, AG's community will exist in Discord form. We've always needed a place to go when the forum was down anyway (for maintenance, DDOS attacks, etc.). If you are an AG refugee, please email me ([email protected]) and tell me who you were on the forum so I can approve you and send you a Discord invite. AG is a non-ethnocentric, cosmopolitan community; there's no serious alternative to it out there that I know of. We're going to find a way to keep the community together because it would be a tremendous loss to the hobbyist community if the cultured forum we've built over the past decade were to just disappear. I'm hoping this Discord will suffice as a meeting place for now.

p.s
he also posted it in eurogenes blog
so if you are anthrogenica refugees you have were to go
:LOL:


Thank you for passing that on!

Just out of curiosity, what is Discord form?
 
I don't agree with you here, Torzio. There were many other "sensible topics" that got certain moderators in rage against those who dared to disagree. There definitely were certain obsessions amongst moderators, and the by them favoured users e. g. Levantine ancestry obsession in Southern Europeans etc. I literally saw people get banned because they opposed the idea of strong "Levantine genetic input" in Southern Europeans :LOL:
Not to forget moderators such as Coldmountains of Afghan ethnicity and his obsession with "Proto-Aryans", the list goes on and on.
I was a friend of a Irishman who was a moderator there, who got banned 5 months ago .............i knew him for many years .
I don't agree with ..........they where banning people due to a certain topic, ie levantine genetic input or religious fervour.
 
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Thank you for passing that on!
Just out of curiosity, what is Discord form?
Discord is essentially like Skype, only a bit more flexible and initially was intended for the gaming community because Skype was not appropriate for the needs of the gaming community. However discord is useful for honestly anything these days.
 
Discord is essentially like Skype, only a bit more flexible and initially was intended for the gaming community because Skype was not appropriate for the needs of the gaming community. However discord is useful for honestly anything these days.


Thanks spruithean, I’ll check it out.
 
You mean they didn't leave "much of a trace" in Serbia? Or in Italy, Greece, Albania, Bulgaria, N. Macedonia? Because I can assure you the Anatolian admixture in the latter groups is definitely not in the single digits. As for the 'exotic haplogroups' (I assume you mean J2a, J1, G-M406, T etc), they're found in abundance in modern southern Italy and Greece so we don't need to play detectives here.

What is exotic about these haplogroups?
 
I just hope someone has made a back up. Because a domain can be bought, things can be set up - with access to a back up.

Riverman, you posted on AG at a higher rate than almost anyone and I know you recognize its value as an open science paradise frequented by some of the most informed and reasonable people in the population genomics space. If you want into the Discord server, just email me.

As for the invectives directed at me and my associates on AG by some of the ignoramuses on this forum, I'm just embarrassed for you.

1.) Charges of AG being too strict:
AG was special because of the academic-style decorum it observed and enforced. It was supposed to be a highbrow space for scientific inquiry and discussion, not a playground for ethnocentrists and nationalists. If we let anybody run roughshod over the TOS, it would have completely defeated the purpose of the forum. By the way, even Davidski was banned on AG several times. The mods didn't play! So much for unabashed Davidski worship!

2.) Charges of bias:
I spent years on anthrofora as the most vociferous anti-Nordicist, pro-Mediterranean celebrant in the world. I've earned my bona fides, so the butthurt ghouls speaking ill of me or AG don't have a leg to stand on. The completely banal recognition of minor Levantine ancestry in certain Southern Europeans doesn't make a person a "Levantinist." It means they live in reality. I wonder how many people in here deny the minor North African ancestry in Spaniards and Portuguese, too. I don't even want to know.

As far as being a Davidski acolyte goes, you might as well accuse me of being a David Reich-ballhugger, Nick Patterson worshipper, Iosif Lazaridis disciple. That's how silly you sound. I like these guys because I respect them. I've engaged with Davidski on matters anthropological since before this forum existed. We've had both moments of agreement and disagreement over the years; he's a good egg and one of the best open scientists I've ever met. There's a reason Nick Patterson has engaged with Davidski on his blog and not with any of you; there's a reason his method has been cited in a recent aDNA paper as inspiring a methodology used therein. And AG has been cited, too. AG is frequented mostly by people who follow the preponderance of evidence, and the nature of an open science community ensures disagreement with poorly argued conclusions or methodological decisions made by certain academics in the field; it also includes a lot of praise and result replication. And if I thought the evidence pointed to PIE coming from the Near East, I'd be delighted. I care about what's true, not what I want to believe. And if David Reich has an smoking gun in Southern Arc to change my mind, that would be most welcome. This is a lesson in character many of you could stand to learn.

One way or another the community will survive. For those too blind or stupid to understand the value of a forum like that, that's entirely your loss.
 
I wasn't initially going to partake in this debate, but I just find the above post hilarious on so many levels, and the poster acting like some sort of academic gatekeeper, especially since I have experience of conversing with him and seeing how he (and his ilk) lost their shit when I dared pose questions that openly mocked their treasured narrative (which was always the latest BS their infamous cult leader came up with).

Now unto AG, some personal observations:

There was an inner circle of posters, so to speak, that established the dominant narrative that was not to be questioned under threat (initially) and actual banning (eventually) of posters who challenged such narrative.

Everything was fine and dandy until:

1) People inquired about EHGs and Eastern Euros and how G25 fails to capture their "drift".

2) People challenged the clustering of certain ethnic groups with G25.

3) People inquired about the South Caucasus/Iranian PIE homeland issue, even more so since it started getting traction in academic announcements and papers some years ago, those academics oftenly openly mocked by said "inner circle" about their "naivety" and "mistakes", especially when certain counter-arguments were provided by the cult leader.

4) People provided alternative methodologies to the cult's established one (g25) to support their own opinions. Let's not forget Indian blogger Vasistha and how he was immediately banned because he dared to present a very detailed alternative use of qpgraph to support his own opinions (more on his blog, very interesting stuff). Yes, you've read that right, the haven of highbrow academic activity banning people for posting graphs.

Furthermore, a special note to

1) AG posters that openly posted racist opinions, some of them accusing Dr. Reich of having certain agendas against 'pure Europeans' due to his own ethnic background.

2) "Mainland Greek" posters, buddies to the idiot mods, that got me banned immediately the moment I started posting about the new West Asian genetic reality of Macedonia, as well as about the presence of Bulgarian speakers and Albanians in Medieval Peloponnese and elsewhere and their evolution, all my posts accompanied with ethnographic and historical sources.

I'll stop here because I think you get the idea.

Just my 2cents, thank you for the floor, over and out.
 
On AG there was a dominant narrative imposed by a group of users on various topics. Those who disagreed with this dominant narrative were often banned.

Unfortunately that happens almost everywhere and its just unfair. The question is however, whether the banning was really just because of disagreement, or because of the way it was articulated. My main criticism would be that for many users a limited ban (like for a month or so) would have been appropriate, probably, but a permanent ban seems to have been too harsh for what they wrote. That's my main criticism on the banning policy.

But fact is, the papers produced by the scientific community are by no means perfect all the time, and they can be analysed by interested amateurs in many ways. AG was just extremely active and well-organised in analysing papers from many perspective, with assignment of haplogroups, visualisations, models and calculators. And one of the main tools, easy to access for all, is just David's G25 tool, which is simply easy to use and highly effective. I tried it myself many times, on relatives, moderns and ancients, and it works good enough for most instances. There might be minor criticism, but whether that's even justified is one thing, but whether it makes the dismissal of these tools as a whole justified is yet another.

I go for what works, and if a tool and model is as good or better than alternatives, I'm fine with it. There is always room for improvement, no doubt about that. Every online community, every tool, every person can improve. But the question is still whether it works as it is, good enough to be missed sadly.
 
Riverman, you posted on AG at a higher rate than almost anyone and I know you recognize its value as an open science paradise frequented by some of the most informed and reasonable people in the population genomics space. If you want into the Discord server, just email me.

As for the invectives directed at me and my associates on AG by some of the ignoramuses on this forum, I'm just embarrassed for you.

1.) Charges of AG being too strict:
AG was special because of the academic-style decorum it observed and enforced. It was supposed to be a highbrow space for scientific inquiry and discussion, not a playground for ethnocentrists and nationalists. If we let anybody run roughshod over the TOS, it would have completely defeated the purpose of the forum. By the way, even Davidski was banned on AG several times. The mods didn't play! So much for unabashed Davidski worship!

2.) Charges of bias:
I spent years on anthrofora as the most vociferous anti-Nordicist, pro-Mediterranean celebrant in the world. I've earned my bona fides, so the butthurt ghouls speaking ill of me or AG don't have a leg to stand on. The completely banal recognition of minor Levantine ancestry in certain Southern Europeans doesn't make a person a "Levantinist." It means they live in reality. I wonder how many people in here deny the minor North African ancestry in Spaniards and Portuguese, too. I don't even want to know.

As far as being a Davidski acolyte goes, you might as well accuse me of being a David Reich-ballhugger, Nick Patterson worshipper, Iosif Lazaridis disciple. That's how silly you sound. I like these guys because I respect them. I've engaged with Davidski on matters anthropological since before this forum existed. We've had both moments of agreement and disagreement over the years; he's a good egg and one of the best open scientists I've ever met. There's a reason Nick Patterson has engaged with Davidski on his blog and not with any of you; there's a reason his method has been cited in a recent aDNA paper as inspiring a methodology used therein. And AG has been cited, too. AG is frequented mostly by people who follow the preponderance of evidence, and the nature of an open science community ensures disagreement with poorly argued conclusions or methodological decisions made by certain academics in the field; it also includes a lot of praise and result replication. And if I thought the evidence pointed to PIE coming from the Near East, I'd be delighted. I care about what's true, not what I want to believe. And if David Reich has an smoking gun in Southern Arc to change my mind, that would be most welcome. This is a lesson in character many of you could stand to learn.

One way or another the community will survive. For those too blind or stupid to understand the value of a forum like that, that's entirely your loss.

The irony which you didn't see is that on AG for identical post you will be suspended at least, just for "language". Here not and it is a difference.
So you self-restrict your true style there it seems...
 

Nope it is only first page of the forum archived in March 2022.

The last working copy for most interestingy sections or threads (except first page) is from October 2021, especially for section General, Autosomal, Haplogroups and Ancient Genetics. Except some regional sections for some reasons which could be quite new, probably not blocked from indexing.

And it is AG fault, they restricted Google (so Wayback Machine too) from archiving content some months ago.
I wondered why they did that but here is the result.
 
The irony which you didn't see is that on AG for identical post you will be suspended at least, just for "language". Here not and it is a difference.
So you self-restrict your true style there it seems...

Indeed, moreover, a group of t-rolls would have free reign to harangue him as well over at AG.
 
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