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Thread: Most WHG guy ever?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rico33 View Post
    You just said he looks atypical.
    Make up your mind.
    I asume the more typical Sardinians do no have those features. His bone structure looks Central European.
    Asian is far fetched. No evidence for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saraman View Post
    Asian is far fetched. No evidence for that.
    Not at all.
    Europe is small and part of Eurasian continent and Central Asia is next to Europe. You shouldn't watch a map, but a round globe.
    The first post mentioned he is atypical. So the more typical inhabitants are the ones who look most WGH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luso View Post
    Because phenotype is complex relative to genetic footprint. There is never a certain correlation between someones genetic profile and how the traits they inherit that makes them look the way they are. Even in the most homogenis populations (especially in south europe), ie. Portuguese, you'll find many different types of looks with people with the same genetic footprints. To pull this point further, im sure people can agree... in families alone (at least southern europeans) have a complexity of looks. In my own I have blue eyed, blonde haired germanic looking people, then you got atlantid-looking portuguese, mediterranid looking, and then even middle-eastern, north african looking, all in the same family.
    I agree for the most. But in some pop's there is more homogeneity for features than in others; it's true that as a pop grows in number, some new mutations can add some new features, but no wholly opposed to ancient ones.
    The question is that when we speak of 'genetic footprints' we speak often of a new recent mix of different parental pop's (the most common case among Humans) and we consider people with roughly the same proportions of parental (parent pop's) genes or admixture that they have the same genetic profile: it's a half truth, because they do'nt share exactly the same parental genes but only a rather comparable %'s of the diverse pop's they are issued of. It's not opposed to what you say: even in same families, brothers and sister dont share so much homozygotic segments.
    So the fact that in the same family you have very different phoenotypical traits is not the proof it's a normal case in nature; nature tends to constrain and select (even if it's very less true among modern Humans), but we Humans are very out-mating people since long enough time and our "de-selection" runs faster than our selection. BTW the same brethren show a high amount of differences in the distribution of autosomal traits.
    That said, some pop's show some tendancies and peculiar individual looks appear commonly there. It's why we don't confuse Swedes, Czechs, Portuguese or Bosniaks when they are in groups of say: ten people, or a bit more (to discard statistical hazard).

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    This Sardinian (pedigree?);otherwise, has a too strong inferior jaw and his chin forms doesn't evoke me a typical 'mediter' of any kind, in typology. Neither his nose is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    The typical portuguese look like you
    Atlantid ? ( not anthropology expert)
    Just asking because soon when i will visit
    Portugal the place i would be is porto
    It is more in the north of portugal no ?

    Well, no John I'm not really the archetypical example of my ethnicity. I fit as Portuguese absolutely, because there are people like me if you visit which you'll see across from north to south, but I am naturally dark skinned olive, almost light brown, with dark hair, and eyes. The average untanned will be lighter olive, or reddish tan skin, with dark hair and eyes. But features are more important... most portuguese have smaller noses, and straight brown or black hair, and sharp jaw. Hope that helps.

    Porto is beautiful you absolutely should visit. It's in the north, yes. I went a couple years ago when I was a bit younger and loved it up there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saraman View Post
    I don't know if this the appropriate subsection for this.

    This Sardinian fellow strikes me alot for being atypical. But he carries traits you'd might consider to be neither Anatolian Neolithic or Steppe but might consider natively "European" but more so on the radical side like Udmurts and Sardinians. Relatively darkskin, light eyes, and "Cro-Magnon" features.

    Attachment 13420Attachment 13421Attachment 13422
    Who knows he might be a WHG survivor. How much WHG would he be?


    He looks pretty much like a so- called Mestizo. To me, he has a very exotic look.

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    Quote Originally Posted by real expert View Post
    He looks pretty much like a so- called Mestizo. To me, he has a very exotic look.
    He certainly doesn't look anything like the most isolated Sardinians of the Gennargentu.

    I think I'll start a thread about them. They are the people identified as being the most isolated and distinct Sardinians, with next to no steppe or eastern ancestry. Just vast majority of Anatolia Neolithic and then a chunk of WHG.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    He certainly doesn't look anything like the most isolated Sardinians of the Gennargentu.

    I think I'll start a thread about them. They are the people identified as being the most isolated and distinct Sardinians, with next to no steppe or eastern ancestry. Just vast majority of Anatolia Neolithic and then a chunk of WHG.
    How much "WHG" do Sardinians score in total and percentage-wise?

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    Quote Originally Posted by real expert View Post
    He looks pretty much like a so- called Mestizo. To me, he has a very exotic look.
    Indeed. And I think when Europeans have such exotic pseudo-mestizo-like features, it is from older Altaic admixture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by real expert View Post
    How much "WHG" do Sardinians score in total and percentage-wise?

    according to this research using qpAdm model

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7080320/

    supplementary table 14: page 29

    9.7%( i dont know from where the sardinians samples they used came in the island there might be
    variation in the anatolian neolithic and whg ancesteries in different parts of the islands
    ogliastra for example: is the most isolated region so it migh have different values% of those components
    )

    p.s
    neolithic and chalcolithic sardinians ( beside the I15940 outlier ) had more whg ancestery 14.6%
    But it was diluted with iranian neolithic ancestery 13.9% in modern sardinians and even yamnaya ancestery 10.6%
    in modern sardinians
    ancestery :
    mostly western jewish here is the overlapp with south europe[U]

    "Know where you came from and where you are going."

    Direct paternal line : mizrahi from damascus

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    according to this research using qpAdm model

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7080320/

    supplementary table 14: page 29

    9.7%( i dont know from where the sardinians samples they used came in the island there might be
    variation in the anatolian neolithic and whg ancesteries in different parts of the islands
    ogliastra for example: is the most isolated region so it migh have different values% of those components
    )

    p.s
    neolithic and chalcolithic sardinians ( beside the I15940 outlier ) had more whg ancestery 14.6%
    But it was diluted with iranian neolithic ancestery 13.9% in modern sardinians and even yamnaya ancestery 10.6%
    in modern sardinians
    Do you know how much a Portuguese person usually scores? I'd assume more. I get around 11.6% on the ancient calculator, but EEF and steppe also have some engrained in it.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luso View Post
    Do you know how much a Portuguese person usually scores? I'd assume more. I get around 11.6% on the ancient calculator, but EEF and steppe also have some engrained in it.
    yes that what i see portuguese average in ancient g25 calculator of davidski
    https://www.exploreyourdna.com/whg.aspx

    portuguase avergae
    is 11.59% whg , 29.95% yamnaya, 49.22% antolian neolitihic barcin , 4.67% tepechik ciftlik turkey , 4.58% morocco- tarfolat

    but i counting more on qpAdm runs from scientific papers i just don't know how to do it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luso View Post
    Well, no John I'm not really the archetypical example of my ethnicity. I fit as Portuguese absolutely, because there are people like me if you visit which you'll see across from north to south, but I am naturally dark skinned olive, almost light brown, with dark hair, and eyes. The average untanned will be lighter olive, or reddish tan skin, with dark hair and eyes. But features are more important... most portuguese have smaller noses, and straight brown or black hair, and sharp jaw. Hope that helps.

    Porto is beautiful you absolutely should visit. It's in the north, yes. I went a couple years ago when I was a bit younger and loved it up there.
    Here's a funny thread... since John asked if I look like a "normal Portuguese". I've been asked this on many forums already, so to better wrap some heads around it here:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/portugal/co...tm_name=iossmf

    Many portuguese responses. These are not people that care that much about being muh "european looking" these are ordinary folk who couldnt give a shit, bc they arent racially obsessed. Many are at least honest that they can pass as even non-european things, because Portugal has people like that, and the same is true for south italy, sicily, greece, etc. but some others won't be as honest on genetic sites bc that demographic cares too much about their image.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by real expert View Post
    How much "WHG" do Sardinians score in total and percentage-wise?
    Sardinia is very heterogeneous. The most important dividing line, however, is the Sardinians of the Gennargentu massif, which is in western Ogliastra province and part of Nuoro province.

    Chiang et al heavily sampled all regions and noted the differences. The villages on the massif range from 4%WHG to 18%. Steppe ranges from 0 to about 4%.

    The particularly isolated and "unique" signature can be found in Arzana, Ilbono, Villagrande, then Gairo, Barisardo, Loceri, Lanusei.

    Arzana is 9% Loschbour and 4% Yamnaya.

    Ilbono is 4% Loschbour and 9% Yamnaya.

    Villagrande is 14% Loschbour and 2% Yamnaya.

    Gairo is 18% Loschbour and 0% Yamnaya.

    Of course, these are averages. There is variation within the villages.

    I'm sorry I can't upload the chart. I think they've blocked it. Anyway, it's in the supplement.

    People of Gairo:









    Most of them don't look very Italian to me, if anyone cares about my subjective opinion. If admixture correlates with "phenotype", too much WHG, too little steppe, and too little "Minoan".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Sardinia is very heterogeneous. The most important dividing line, however, is the Sardinians of the Gennargentu massif, which is in western Ogliastra province and part of Nuoro province.

    Chiang et al heavily sampled all regions and noted the differences. The villages on the massif range from 4%WHG to 18%. Steppe ranges from 0 to about 4%.

    The particularly isolated and "unique" signature can be found in Arzana, Ilbono, Villagrande, then Gairo, Barisardo, Loceri, Lanusei.

    Arzana is 9% Loschbour and 4% Yamnaya.

    Ilbono is 4% Loschbour and 9% Yamnaya.

    Villagrande is 14% Loschbour and 2% Yamnaya.

    Gairo is 18% Loschbour and 0% Yamnaya.

    Of course, these are averages. There is variation within the villages.

    I'm sorry I can't upload the chart. I think they've blocked it. Anyway, it's in the supplement.

    People of Gairo:









    Most of them don't look very Italian to me, if anyone cares about my subjective opinion. If admixture correlates with "phenotype", too much WHG, too little steppe, and too little "Minoan".




    https://i.imgur.com/RaVbfXX.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Sardinia is very heterogeneous. The most important dividing line, however, is the Sardinians of the Gennargentu massif, which is in western Ogliastra province and part of Nuoro province.

    Chiang et al heavily sampled all regions and noted the differences. The villages on the massif range from 4%WHG to 18%. Steppe ranges from 0 to about 4%.

    The particularly isolated and "unique" signature can be found in Arzana, Ilbono, Villagrande, then Gairo, Barisardo, Loceri, Lanusei.

    Arzana is 9% Loschbour and 4% Yamnaya.

    Ilbono is 4% Loschbour and 9% Yamnaya.

    Villagrande is 14% Loschbour and 2% Yamnaya.

    Gairo is 18% Loschbour and 0% Yamnaya.

    Of course, these are averages. There is variation within the villages.

    I'm sorry I can't upload the chart. I think they've blocked it. Anyway, it's in the supplement.

    People of Gairo:

    Most of them don't look very Italian to me, if anyone cares about my subjective opinion. If admixture correlates with "phenotype", too much WHG, too little steppe, and too little "Minoan".

    Thanks for the info. It seems that some Sardinians have retained a considerable amount of WHG. Btw, would you say that Sardinians look on the whole rather homogenous or heterogonous, thus appearance-wise differ from region to region? There are not a few Sardinians who have a particular look. What I've noticed (at least when going by pictures that show them in traditional clothing) is that a fair amount of Sardinian women are easy on the eyes. Anyway, how can you, for example, tell a Sardinian from a typical Mainland Italian apart? Some Italians assert that there is a typical Neapolitan, Sicilian or Venetian look, etc. What do you think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    according to this research using qpAdm model

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7080320/

    supplementary table 14: page 29

    9.7%( i dont know from where the sardinians samples they used came in the island there might be
    variation in the anatolian neolithic and whg ancesteries in different parts of the islands
    ogliastra for example: is the most isolated region so it migh have different values% of those components
    )

    p.s
    neolithic and chalcolithic sardinians ( beside the I15940 outlier ) had more whg ancestery 14.6%
    But it was diluted with iranian neolithic ancestery 13.9% in modern sardinians and even yamnaya ancestery 10.6%
    in modern sardinians
    Thanks kingjohn.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by real expert View Post
    Thanks for the info. It seems that some Sardinians have retained a considerable amount of WHG. Btw, would you say that Sardinians look on the whole rather homogenous or heterogonous, thus appearance-wise differ from region to region? There are not a few Sardinians who have a particular look. What I've noticed (at least when going by pictures that show them in traditional clothing) is that a fair amount of Sardinian women are easy on the eyes. Anyway, how can you, for example, tell a Sardinian from a typical Mainland Italian apart? Some Italians assert that there is a typical Neapolitan, Sicilian or Venetian look, etc. What do you think?
    Sardinian women are renowned in Italy for their beauty, but with all due respect to them, I didn't see many of them in some of the villages, like Gairo, and Arzana.

    It's the villages further down the slope and off the Massif altogether which to my eyes contain more lovely women.

    Villagrande: I don't see any difference between her and a woman from the mainland.


    Also from Villagrande, and I'd say the same about her.


    Villagrande again. She's a bit different looking:



    Lanusei: Not my favorite look. A lot of the men have these snub noses too. I don't know if it's from WHG, but that's what I always thought.


    The Sardinian showgirls and actresses who have made it "big" in Italy:
    Elisabeta Canalis-model and old flame of George Clooney. She just looks Italian to me.



    I'm particularly partial to the Sardinian actress who was in a James Bond movie, as is Dienekes. He once posted a picture of her. She has a very "Greek" look to me, but certainly looks Italian as well, just not Northern or Central.

    Caterina Murino: Minimalist make up and ravishing; I adore her smile,


    I also adore her facial bone structure, her mouth, eyes, nose, you name it.


    In the Bond movie:



    I also think Luisa Ranieri (Neapolitan) is stunning.




    Sophia Loren is also Neapolitan, but a different type:


    Alessandra Mastronardi:


    Male actor from Napoli:
    Gianpaolo Morelli


    Cannavaro is also Neapolitan


    And Massimo Ranieri


    Gigi d'Alessio


    His wife, Anna Tatangelo:


    Napoli has more than its fair share of really beautiful people.


    Famous Italian chef Antonino Cannavacciulo:


    Bernini-famous sculptor and architect


    Actor-Federico Castelluccio


    Caruso-Campania, if not Napoli itself.


    The gorgeous Allesandro Preziosi


    Antonio DiNatale:


    The great maestro conductor (he may be part Apulian)




    So, you tell me. Which one is "THE" typical Neapolitan, because I honestly couldn't tell you, although I might guess some of them are Neapolitan, especially
    the ones who are more fair and have those "boneless" noses. It does show up in Napoli, but so does Caruso's type and Tatangelo.

    Nabule a dialect hymn to the city. I think the three of them look completely different.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Some other Sardinians that I think have slight WHG influence

    i(dot)imgur(dot)com/wYCbCqE(dot)jpg

    i(dot)imgur(dot)com/hKM21vN(dot)jpg

    i(dot)imgur(dot)com/2hUuQky(dot)jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by saraman View Post
    Some other Sardinians that I think have slight WHG influence

    i(dot)imgur(dot)com/wYCbCqE(dot)jpg

    i(dot)imgur(dot)com/hKM21vN(dot)jpg

    i(dot)imgur(dot)com/2hUuQky(dot)jpg
    Can't see the pictures.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rico33 View Post
    Can't see the pictures.
    wYCbCqE.jpg

    hKM21vN.jpg

    2hUuQky.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by real expert View Post
    He looks pretty much like a so- called Mestizo. To me, he has a very exotic look.
    What do "Mestizo" look like to you?

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