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Thread: Etruscan & Latin mtDNA

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    Etruscan & Latin mtDNA

    I was checking the study of samples in the Rome area since the Mesolithic until the Middle Ages.
    Focusing concretely in the Iron Age/Roman Republic time period(the previous millenium of the turn to the Empire around the year 0).

    IMG_20220806_212528.jpgIMG_20220806_212544.jpg

    Here you have which culture were they part of, as well as their haplogroups.

    First in the Late Bronze Age, we have an U5.
    Followed closely by a K1a.

    Once you get to Latin culture, you have 4 samples.
    2 of them are clearly people from the Nordic countries, since U4 and H2 haplogroups appeared in the Bronze Age in N(E) Europe. They both peak today in Sweden, Russia, Finland...
    Then there's an H1 with an R1b haplogroup, which is something very average European, a Steppe male with a woman whose haplogroup started booming in Chalcolithic Europe. And finally a Y-Chromosome T with a T2c, both clearly from the Levant, which suggests a Phoenician trader(we don't know what was the relation between Latins and Punics).


    Then there are 3 Etruscans, that in contrast with the 4 Latins, are classified as Roman Republic, we have to guess that these were the Etruscans that ruled Rome??... I don't know.

    Anyway we have an U5a, which is the same haplogroup of the Late Bronze Age. I assume that this haplogroup was reinforced in numbers in the Chalcolithic, but mostly since the Early Bronze Age(5000-4000) by Steppe Farmers.
    We see a striking resurgence of these haplogroups 4000 years after they were virtually exterminated by the incoming Agriculturalists. Remember, most R1 in the East was also U5, U4 and U2 until the Corded Ware expansion.

    Also we have a T2b, which is clearly also a "IndoEuropean" haplogroup(brackets because the Etruscans kept the previous native European language).
    Watching the Eupedia map of T2, peaks in N. Iran, it may have some CHG origin. Logical since T was in ancient times a West Asian haplogroup, but not as much as Latin(Phoenician) T2c, which stayed middleastener.

    And finally we have an H... coupled with a J2. This J2 may be because that famous Eneas and his guard fleeing from a falling Troy.


    Finally we have 2 samples from the Roman Republic. Both are R-P312 coupled with regular European H haplogroups that have been here since the Late Neolithic/Chalcolithic.

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    Attachment 13455
    Here you have the dates and time periods

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mmiikkii View Post
    And finally we have an H... coupled with a J2. This J2 may be because that famous Eneas and his guard fleeing from a falling Troy..
    There was no Eneas fleeing from a falling Troy, it is a fictitious story, devoid of evidence. The J2 you speak of is J2-L283, and the Etruscan one has matches in older samples from Croatia and Serbia.

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z615/


    Etruscans' mtDNA in 2021 paper was predominantly H.


    CAM001 Y-DNA R1b1a1b1a1a2 mtDNA H1at1
    CAM002 Y-DNA G2a2b2a1 L140/S316 mtDNA H18 (Etruscan CEU)
    CAM003 Y-DNA G2a2b2a1a1b L497/S317 mtDNA J2a1a1
    CSN001 mtDNA H1
    CSN002 mtDNA H45 (Etruscan CEU)
    CSN003 Y-DNA R1b1a1b1a1a2d1a Z2247 mtDNA H1at1
    CSN004 Y-DNA J2b2a1 L283 mtDNA X2b
    CSN005 Y-DNA R1b1a1b1a1a2 P312 mtDNA H2a1
    CSN006 Y-DNA R1b1a1b1a1a2b1 L2/S139 mtDNA J1c2
    CSN007 mtDNA H1b
    CSN008 mtDNA H7c1
    CSN009 Y-DNA R1b1a1b1a1a2 P312 mtDNA H45
    CSN010 Y-DNA R1b1a1b1a1a2d1a Z2247 mtDNA HV0
    CSN013 mtDNA H4a1a
    ETR005 mtDNA V15
    MAG001 Y-DNA R1b1a1b1a1a L151 mtDNA T2b
    MAS004 Y-DNA R1b1a1b1a1 P310 mtDNA R1b1
    PRZ001 mtDNA U5b3b
    PRZ002 Y-DNA R1b1a1b1a1a2b1 L2 mtDNA H1
    TAQ001 mtDNA T2e
    TAQ002 Y-DNA R1b1a1b1a1a2 P312 mtDNA H
    TAQ004 Y-DNA R1b1a1b1a1a2b U152 mtDNA H
    TAQ005 Y-DNA R1b1a1b1a1a2b1 L2 mtDNA T2d2
    TAQ006 Y-DNA G2a2b2a1a1b1 CTS9737/Z1815 mtDNA HV22
    TAQ008 mtDNA HV0
    TAQ010 Y-DNA R1b1a1b1a1a2 P312 mtDNA H13a1a1d
    TAQ012 mtDNA H1
    TAQ013 Y-DNA R1b1a1b1a1a1 M405/U106/S21 mtDNA U5a1a2a
    TAQ015 mtDNA H5a7
    TAQ016 mtDNA H1bz
    TAQ017 Y-DNA R1b1a1b1a L51 mtDNA T2e
    TAQ018 Y-DNA R1b1a1b1a1a2b1 L2 mtDNA W6a
    TAQ019 mtDNA J1c3
    TAQ024 Y-DNA R1b1a1b1a2 PF7589/Z2118 mtDNA T2eT2e
    UDC_P Y-DNA R1b1a1b1a1a2 mtDNA HV0
    VET001 mtDNA H5'36
    VET002 Y-DNA G2a2b2b1a1a PF3378 mtDNA J1c3
    VET003.4 mtDNA J1c9
    VET005 mtDNA H79 (Etruscan CEU)
    VET007 mtDNA T2b
    VET010 mtDNA H58
    VEU001 Y-DNA R1b1a1b1a1a2b1 L2 mtDNA V
    VOL001 Y-DNA R1b1a1b1a1a2b1 L2 mtDNA H13a1a1

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    Thanks for the Etruscan mtDNA samples, I was trying to give an explanation to the findings of the other 11, didn't know of this paper.
    Are very different results, in mine says 1 is U5, 1 is T2 and 1 is H. While in the Etruscan paper is mostly H.

    By the way, I don't even neccessarily think that the ancestor of the mythical founder lineage of Rome is J2, it's just a guessing that might come from Trojan refugees. Since there was a very specific J2(J2a-Z435) that seemed to expand from C. Italy all over Europe during Roman times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    There was no Eneas fleeing from a falling Troy, it is a fictitious story, devoid of evidence. The J2 you speak of is J2-L283, and the Etruscan one has matches in older samples from Croatia and Serbia.

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z615/

    CSN004 Y-DNA J2b2a1 L283 mtDNA X2b
    Thanks for making that clear to that user. Next to the CSN004 Y-DNA J2b2a1 L283​>>Z615>Z597>Y15058>Z38240 there was also another Etruscan sample R474 Y-DNA J2b2a1 L283>>Z615>Z597>Y15058>Z38240>CTS6190>Y45181 J-Y45181 from the Antonio et. al. 2019 Ancient Rome paper https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aay6826

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mmiikkii View Post
    Thanks for the Etruscan mtDNA samples, I was trying to give an explanation to the findings of the other 11, didn't know of this paper.
    Are very different results, in mine says 1 is U5, 1 is T2 and 1 is H. While in the Etruscan paper is mostly H.
    By the way, I don't even neccessarily think that the ancestor of the mythical founder lineage of Rome is J2, it's just a guessing that might come from Trojan refugees. Since there was a very specific J2(J2a-Z435) that seemed to expand from C. Italy all over Europe during Roman times.
    J2a was found in Neolithic Italy, in central-eastern Italy (Marche). Attributing J2a-Z435 presence in Europe to the Roman Empire seems to me the usual simplistic reading. Many J2 clades in Europe arrived there in prehistoric times.


    Quote Originally Posted by mount123 View Post
    Thanks for making that clear to that user. Next to the CSN004 Y-DNA J2b2a1 L283​>>Z615>Z597>Y15058>Z38240 there was also another Etruscan sample R474 Y-DNA J2b2a1 L283>>Z615>Z597>Y15058>Z38240>CTS6190>Y45181 J-Y45181 from the Antonio et. al. 2019 Ancient Rome paper https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aay6826
    Thank you, yes I know R474, it is what OP had posted.

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