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Thread: Comparing Ancient Greek populations to modern Greeks and Italians

  1. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dianatomia View Post
    Is there a way of estimating Slavic admixture in Macedonian Slavs if we compare IA North Macedonia to Macedonian Slavs?
    The Thracian ancestry outweighs the Illyrian/Paonian-ancestry in both South-Western Slavs and Slavic Macedonians when modeling. Similarly how E-V13 outweighs J2b. This can be explain with:
    1.) Roman genocide and Daco-Thracian related population movement.
    2.) Slavic tribes absorbed some E-V13 lines and their autosomal impact during their road before making permanent settlements.
    3.) Or a mixture of both scenarios.

  2. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    The Thracian ancestry outweighs the Illyrian/Paonian-ancestry in both South-Western Slavs and Slavic Macedonians when modeling. Similarly how E-V13 outweighs J2b. This can be explain with:
    1.) Roman genocide and Daco-Thracian related population movement.
    2.) Slavic tribes absorbed some E-V13 lines and their autosomal impact during their road before making permanent settlements.
    3.) Or a mixture of both scenarios.
    The frontiers of the empire on the eve of Slavic migrations was also a factor.



    Since the Huns show up, to the times of the the Slavic invasion, the Byzantines were more concerned with invasions to Thrace which would endanger their capitol, Dalmatia was more of a distant outpost, subject to easy raids over and over from Huns, Lobmbards, Gepids, Slavs and Avars. The defense and manpower was concentrated in eastern and central Balkans. The population of Dalmatia was thinned out from constant barbarian raids of almost 200 years. That would explain why Daco-Thracian derived population have left more legacy in Balkan Slavs.

  3. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post


    Definitely would like to see more Italic samples processed from various tribes, particularly the Oscans. If they're shifted a bit from Protovillanovan (R1) who is similar to Cetina, that you could easily bracket modern Apulians, and myself with Myceneans.
    That would make southern italic tribes similar to the Crete Armenoi sample. A similar scenario makes sense, imho (minoan-like substratum+more steppe ancestry than bronze age aegean populations). Modern southern italian would largely plot between them and Mycenaeans/Iron age Greeks.


  4. #479
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    I ran my coordinates with all of the Greek, Ancient Macedonian, Ancient Albanian samples and found that I tend to cluster closer to those archaic/Bronze Age populations well North of my ancestral homeland (Peloponnese).

    Distance to: Anthony_C_scaled
    0.02880945 GRC_Logkas_MBA:Log02
    0.03118023 MKD_Anc:I10391___female___BC_300___Coverage_66.29%
    0.03328139 MKD_BA:I7231___R-CTS7556___BC_1219___Coverage_72.93%
    0.03329729 MKD_Anc:I10388___J-Y13128___BC_708___Coverage_67.44%
    0.03407186 MKD_Anc:I10390___G-Z6494___BC_393___Coverage_67.94%
    0.03898782 ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I14692___female___BC_950___Covera ge_69.46%
    0.03966204 MKD_Anc:I10385___female___BC_641___Coverage_69.29%
    0.04203850 ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I14688___R-L51___BC_500___Coverage_66.52%
    0.04217829 MKD_Anc:I10381___C-V86___BC_636___Coverage_22.20%
    0.04225267 GRC_Logkas_MBA:Log04
    0.04365851 MKD_Anc:I10384___J-Y13128___BC_600___Coverage_65.57%
    0.04384365 ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I16251___R-M269___BC_550___Coverage_36.88%
    0.04616448 MKD_Anc:I10387___female___BC_600___Coverage_43.99%
    0.04792661 ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I14690___R-CTS1450___BC_1050___Coverage_65.05%
    0.05081105 ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I16253___J-Y21878___BC_476___Coverage_33.12%
    0.05129287 MKD_Anc:I7233___female___BC_850___Coverage_74.59%
    0.05145260 MKD_Anc:I10379___female___BC_641___Coverage_66.02%
    0.05351353 GRC_Mycenaean_Palace_of_Nestor_BA:I13514___female_ __BC_1215___Coverage_76.28%
    0.05373817 GRC_Palace_of_Nestor_EIA:I19368___female___BC_1010 ___Coverage_10.73%
    0.05438663 MKD_Anc_outlier2:I10167___R-M269___BC_121___Coverage_12.67%
    0.05518335 MKD_Anc:I8112___R-CTS1450___BC_664___Coverage_70.53%
    0.05540831 MKD_Anc:I10383___female___BC_657___Coverage_67.48%
    0.05545206 GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA:I13577___G-Z7016___BC_1250___Coverage_24.67%
    0.05663489 MKD_Anc:I10389___female___BC_600___Coverage_15.50%
    0.06017545 GRC_Mycenaean:I9033

  5. #480
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Francesco View Post
    That would make southern italic tribes similar to the Crete Armenoi sample. A similar scenario makes sense, imho (minoan-like substratum+more steppe ancestry than bronze age aegean populations). Modern southern italian would largely plot between them and Mycenaeans/Iron age Greeks.


    the 2 "dalmatian" are clearly a northern balkan group

    below with many lombard samples

    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
    Grandfather paternal mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ...... K1a4p
    Mothers line ..... R1b-S8172
    Grandmother paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ..... R1a-PF6155

    "Fear profits man, nothing"

  6. #481
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    I always though of the Paeonians as Thracians, or a Thraco-Illyrian mix of some sort. Some scholars also attested to the fact that they were closely connected to the Greeks as well. According to Homer they were related to the Phrygians living in Northern Greece. The Phrygians were dislocated by the Ancient Macedonians, and they migrated to Anatolia. But remains of the Phrygian language in Anatolia indicate that it was closely related to Greek in many respects. The Paeonians were certainly not Ancient Macedonians as they fought with them regularly. But they could have been biologically related to Greeks in general.
    In any case, based on all researches so far, North IA Greeks, Paeonians, Thracians and the like plot closer to modern Greeks (and Italians, Albanians) than Mycenaeans. So either Mycenaeans + some Slavic is indicative of these populations, or there was an Ancient migration from that area to Greece at some point of time.

  7. #482
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    useful, thanks for sharing

  8. #483
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    Hello , Can someone compare my and to my friends G25 coordinates with the new Ancient Macedonian samples ?

    Me,0.121791,0.150298,0.01697,-0.003553,0.020004,-0.00502,0.007285,0.003461,0.001841,0.009112,-0.008769,-0.001649,-0.004608,0.000138,-0.013301,-0.000796,0.009518,-0.003167,0.002263,-0.008629,-0.010232,0.000371,0.010969,0.002651,-0.007185


    Friend1_Aleksander,0.122929,0.146236,0.023381,-0.006137,0.026774,-0.001116,-0.00376,-0.002077,-0.002454,0.018588,0.00065,0.001798,0.003717,0.0101 84,-0.011943,-0.008353,-0.008475,-0.000887,0.008799,-0.009004,-0.009234,0.009769,-0.000739,0.000602,-0.002395


    Friend2_Marija,0.124067,0.144205,0.015839,-0.011305,0.025235,-0.004462,0.00611,0,0.000409,0.010387,0.001137,0.00 2847,-0.002379,0.015964,-0.012215,-0.007823,-0.005215,0.003167,0.005279,-0.010505,-0.010107,0.001855,0.003574,0.001446,0


    Thanks !

    Or if you need Eurogenes K13 ;

    Me
    North_Atlantic 23.22 Pct
    Baltic 19.51 Pct
    West_Med 19.62 Pct
    West_Asian 11.94 Pct
    East_Med 22.3 Pct
    Red_Sea 2.37 Pct
    South_Asian 0.78 Pct
    East_Asian -
    Siberian -
    Amerindian -
    Oceanian 0.25 Pct
    Northeast_African -
    Sub-Saharan -

    Friend1_Aleksander
    Population
    North_Atlantic 21.34 Pct
    Baltic 20.36 Pct
    West_Med 21.95 Pct
    West_Asian 10.17 Pct
    East_Med 23.2 Pct
    Red_Sea 1.56 Pct
    South_Asian -
    East_Asian -
    Siberian 0.07 Pct
    Amerindian 0.75 Pct
    Oceanian 0.29 Pct
    Northeast_African -
    Sub-Saharan 0.3 Pct


    Friend2_Marija
    North_Atlantic 21.65 Pct
    Baltic 18.55 Pct
    West_Med 18.86 Pct
    West_Asian 11.83 Pct
    East_Med 24.8 Pct
    Red_Sea 3.27 Pct
    South_Asian -
    East_Asian 0.07 Pct
    Siberian -
    Amerindian 0.68 Pct
    Oceanian 0.28 Pct
    Northeast_African -
    Sub-Saharan -


    And one more friend without g25 only k13

    Aneta
    North_Atlantic 25.99 Pct
    Baltic 16.85 Pct
    West_Med 15.82 Pct
    West_Asian 14.14 Pct
    East_Med 24.72 Pct
    Red_Sea 1.6 Pct
    South_Asian -
    East_Asian -
    Siberian 0.53 Pct
    Amerindian -
    Oceanian 0.35 Pct
    Northeast_African -
    Sub-Saharan -

  9. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasile View Post
    Hello , Can someone compare my and to my friends G25 coordinates with the new Ancient Macedonian samples ?
    Distance to: MKD_Anc
    0.03879608 Vasile_friend_Aleksander_scaled
    0.03997637 Vasile_friend_Marija_scaled
    0.04076002 Vasile_scaled
    0.04089050 Vasile_friend_Hristina_scaled
    0.04545712 Vasile_friend_Atanas_scaled
    0.04595018 Vasile_friend_Angela_scaled
    0.04899646 Vasile_friend_Nikola_scaled


  10. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by Er Monnezza View Post
    Distance to: MKD_Anc
    0.03879608 Vasile_friend_Aleksander_scaled
    0.03997637 Vasile_friend_Marija_scaled
    0.04076002 Vasile_scaled
    0.04089050 Vasile_friend_Hristina_scaled
    0.04545712 Vasile_friend_Atanas_scaled
    0.04595018 Vasile_friend_Angela_scaled
    0.04899646 Vasile_friend_Nikola_scaled

    Nice thanks ! Can you add this Macedonian average from 100 G25 simulated coordinates ?

    Macedonian,0.1221137,0.1428205,0.0224179,-0.0081292,0.0261456,-0.0018024,0.0040086,0.0024083,0.0016661,0.0116851,-0.0009672,0.00148,-0.0025211,0.0091482,-0.0123715,-0.0017083,0.0059696,0.0005986,0.0055083,-0.0045047,-0.0054208,-0.0012481,0.0025807,0.000303,-0.0008277

  11. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by matadworf View Post
    I ran my coordinates with all of the Greek, Ancient Macedonian, Ancient Albanian samples and found that I tend to cluster closer to those archaic/Bronze Age populations well North of my ancestral homeland (Peloponnese).

    Distance to: Anthony_C_scaled
    0.02880945 GRC_Logkas_MBA:Log02
    0.03118023 MKD_Anc:I10391___female___BC_300___Coverage_66.29%
    0.03328139 MKD_BA:I7231___R-CTS7556___BC_1219___Coverage_72.93%
    0.03329729 MKD_Anc:I10388___J-Y13128___BC_708___Coverage_67.44%
    0.03407186 MKD_Anc:I10390___G-Z6494___BC_393___Coverage_67.94%
    0.03898782 ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I14692___female___BC_950___Covera ge_69.46%
    0.03966204 MKD_Anc:I10385___female___BC_641___Coverage_69.29%
    0.04203850 ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I14688___R-L51___BC_500___Coverage_66.52%
    0.04217829 MKD_Anc:I10381___C-V86___BC_636___Coverage_22.20%
    0.04225267 GRC_Logkas_MBA:Log04
    0.04365851 MKD_Anc:I10384___J-Y13128___BC_600___Coverage_65.57%
    0.04384365 ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I16251___R-M269___BC_550___Coverage_36.88%
    0.04616448 MKD_Anc:I10387___female___BC_600___Coverage_43.99%
    0.04792661 ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I14690___R-CTS1450___BC_1050___Coverage_65.05%
    0.05081105 ALB_Çinamak_Anc:I16253___J-Y21878___BC_476___Coverage_33.12%
    0.05129287 MKD_Anc:I7233___female___BC_850___Coverage_74.59%
    0.05145260 MKD_Anc:I10379___female___BC_641___Coverage_66.02%
    0.05351353 GRC_Mycenaean_Palace_of_Nestor_BA:I13514___female_ __BC_1215___Coverage_76.28%
    0.05373817 GRC_Palace_of_Nestor_EIA:I19368___female___BC_1010 ___Coverage_10.73%
    0.05438663 MKD_Anc_outlier2:I10167___R-M269___BC_121___Coverage_12.67%
    0.05518335 MKD_Anc:I8112___R-CTS1450___BC_664___Coverage_70.53%
    0.05540831 MKD_Anc:I10383___female___BC_657___Coverage_67.48%
    0.05545206 GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA:I13577___G-Z7016___BC_1250___Coverage_24.67%
    0.05663489 MKD_Anc:I10389___female___BC_600___Coverage_15.50%
    0.06017545 GRC_Mycenaean:I9033
    You could not expect another result. The Illyrians were very close genetically to Macedonians and both survived much more than the ancient Greeks.

  12. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasile View Post
    Nice thanks ! Can you add this Macedonian average from 100 G25 simulated coordinates ?

    Macedonian,0.1221137,0.1428205,0.0224179,-0.0081292,0.0261456,-0.0018024,0.0040086,0.0024083,0.0016661,0.0116851,-0.0009672,0.00148,-0.0025211,0.0091482,-0.0123715,-0.0017083,0.0059696,0.0005986,0.0055083,-0.0045047,-0.0054208,-0.0012481,0.0025807,0.000303,-0.0008277

  13. #488
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    Thanks again broski ,
    With Baltic

    Target: MACEDONIAN
    Distance: 0.6977% / 0.00697730
    58.2 Ancient-Macedonian
    17.8 Balto-Slavic
    9.4 Illyrian
    9.2 Thracian
    4.4 Caucasian
    1.0 Pakistan_Butkara


    Target: MACEDONIAN
    Distance: 1.0396% / 0.01039620 | ADC: 0.25x
    57.2 Ancient-Macedonian
    28.6 Illyrian
    13.4 Balto-Slavic
    0.8 Caucasian




    With + Slavic

    Target: MACEDONIAN
    Distance: 1.1159% / 0.01115895 | R3P
    74.0 Ancient-Macedonian
    14.6 Balto-Slavic
    11.4 Caucasian






    Code:
    Ancient-Macedonian:MKD_Anc:I10379,0.129758,0.149283,0.021873,-0.027132,0.027082,-0.012829,0.005875,0.001846,0.002659,0.034989,-0.001461,0.01169,-0.007284,-0.003716,-0.019137,0.008353,0.029206,-0.002154,0.005656,0.001876,-0.018093,0.002349,-0.002095,0.008435,-0.004311Ancient-Macedonian:MKD_Anc:I10381,0.134311,0.151314,0.026776,-0.031331,0.028928,-0.000837,-0.000235,-0.003231,0.006749,0.04319,0.000162,-3e-04,-0.015758,0.005092,-0.009365,-0.006364,0.00678,0.00152,0.006285,0.001751,-0.009358,0.001731,0.003821,-0.003133,0.012334
    Ancient-Macedonian:MKD_Anc:I10383,0.12862,0.149283,0.025267,-0.018734,0.030159,-0.009482,0.003525,-0.004154,0.002454,0.031709,-0.005359,0.013188,-0.020812,-0.017065,-0.012893,0.007823,0.024251,0.007728,0.007165,0.00075,-0.00836,-0.00136,-0.001725,0.009158,-0.005269
    Ancient-Macedonian:MKD_Anc:I10384,0.125205,0.156392,0.026398,-0.010013,0.026774,-0.004183,0.002115,-0.003923,0.006954,0.025331,0.001299,0.006894,-0.014123,-0.005918,-0.012758,-0.00053,0.004824,0.002787,0.005028,-0.014257,-0.015223,-0.000371,-0.00986,0.003615,-0.006706
    Ancient-Macedonian:MKD_Anc:I10385,0.124067,0.148267,0.02489,-0.009367,0.022158,0,-0.00517,-0.002769,-0.008181,0.021322,0.006496,0.008692,-0.018731,-0.000963,-0.001357,-0.009016,-0.009518,0.004687,0.001634,-0.01038,-0.011729,0.005688,-0.001479,0.001928,0.005389
    Ancient-Macedonian:MKD_Anc:I10387,0.113823,0.157407,0.017348,-0.020672,0.031083,-0.005299,-0.011986,0.001615,-0.000409,0.045923,0.003897,0.004196,-0.025272,-0.00812,-0.017372,-0.004641,-0.005607,0.004307,0.017095,-0.012381,-0.010981,0.006677,-0.002342,0.01205,-0.003473
    Ancient-Macedonian:MKD_Anc:I10388,0.126344,0.157407,0.019987,-0.019703,0.029236,-0.009761,0.001645,-0.005538,0.006749,0.031162,0.004384,0.008992,-0.014569,-0.004266,-0.013436,-0.004641,0.002347,0.001014,0.008547,-0.012131,-0.012728,0.006925,0.0053,0.011447,-0.005628
    Ancient-Macedonian:MKD_Anc:I10389,0.124067,0.147252,0.02753,-0.007106,0.013233,-0.01255,0.004935,-0.006231,-0.002045,0.012574,0.012991,0.002847,-0.011744,-0.0139,-0.008415,0.002917,0.01369,0.009628,0.007416,0.001376,-0.017095,0.023494,-0.000123,0.0194,-0.002634
    Ancient-Macedonian:MKD_Anc:I10390,0.126344,0.153345,0.022627,-0.023256,0.031083,-0.010319,-0.002585,-0.006,0.008795,0.027518,0.001461,0.007643,-0.015015,0.00289,-0.00855,-0.01538,-0.009909,-0.001267,0.003017,-0.02001,-0.012603,0.005193,0.006409,0.005663,-0.005149
    Ancient-Macedonian:MKD_Anc:I10391,0.120652,0.159438,0.01697,-0.025194,0.028621,-0.016733,-0.00799,-0.006923,0.008999,0.033167,0,0.004346,-0.008622,0.008395,-0.014115,-0.0179,-0.007302,0.004181,0.008673,-0.013256,-0.010856,0.00272,-0.002588,0.005061,0.001317
    Ancient-Macedonian:MKD_Anc:I7233,0.119514,0.157407,0.010559,-0.045543,0.030775,-0.013666,-0.000235,0.000923,0.011862,0.04155,0.006658,0.01154,-0.020367,-0.008808,-0.033659,-0.01127,0.009388,0.000253,0.011439,-0.01138,-0.009982,0.013602,-0.005669,0.004458,-0.005269
    Ancient-Macedonian:MKD_Anc:I8112,0.12862,0.142174,0.026398,-0.012597,0.035083,-0.011992,-0.00188,0.000923,0.00225,0.025331,-0.000325,0.009292,-0.013974,-0.015138,-0.00475,0.011403,0.017993,0.007348,0.005279,-0.008754,-0.001996,-0.01014,-0.001725,0.000843,-0.008861
    Thracian:BGR_IA:I5769,0.126344,0.157407,0.007165,-0.051034,0.029852,-0.02259,0.00423,-0.001385,0.007772,0.032074,-0.001461,0.005695,-0.013974,-0.003028,-0.015065,-0.001458,0.01369,0.006968,0.006285,-0.014757,-0.006239,0.004699,-0.007888,0.003494,-0.008861
    Illyrian:HRV_IA:I3313,0.132035,0.151314,0.033941,-0.01615,0.024928,-0.005857,-0.006345,0.007154,0.003681,0.028976,0.001786,0.01169,-0.02111,-0.001376,-0.005972,-0.008486,-0.006519,0.004941,0.005531,-0.014257,-0.001872,0.00507,0.001479,0.00253,0.003353
    Illyrian:HRV_IA:I5723,0.124067,0.152329,0.039221,-0.006783,0.045239,-0.00251,0.00188,-0.003231,0.012271,0.030616,-0.004547,0.006444,-0.016501,-0.003441,-0.010043,0.003447,-0.000913,0.000887,0.004902,0.002376,-0.00836,0.001607,-0.004437,-0.001205,0.001557
    Illyrian:HRV_IA:I5724,0.126344,0.152329,0.027907,0.006783,0.033237,-0.00753,0.006815,0.003923,0.01493,0.028976,-0.000162,0.008393,-0.009663,-0.00812,-0.007465,0.001458,-0.002086,0.007348,0.011816,-0.003377,-0.005989,0.011871,0.002095,-0.010724,0.000479
    Illyrian:HRV_IA:I5725,0.112685,0.153345,0.039221,0.006783,0.041238,0.005857,0.000705,-0.001846,0.01309,0.02606,-0.001624,0.010641,-0.010109,-0.009909,-0.001357,-0.002784,0.00326,0.005321,0,0.002751,-0.000624,-0.001978,-0.00912,-0.004097,0.002395
    Illyrian:HRV_IA:I5726,0.118376,0.15436,0.040729,-0.002907,0.03693,-0.005857,-0.003995,0.002538,0.014317,0.029522,-0.003248,0.005245,-0.010258,-0.015689,-0.001221,0.01485,0.021905,0.000253,-0.005028,0.005378,-0.001248,-0.003833,-0.006532,0.003615,-0.006826
    Illyrian:HRV_IA:I5727,0.124067,0.139128,0.048649,0.026486,0.040931,0.008646,0.00235,0.006,0.011658,0.017859,-0.001949,-0.000749,0.003568,-0.001651,-0.002443,0.000796,0.001173,-0.001647,0.004148,0.001126,0.001996,-0.003091,-0.008874,-0.003976,0.001437
    Illyrian:HRV_IA:I5728,0.124067,0.150298,0.04186,-0.004522,0.041546,-0.010598,0.00094,-0.000231,0.020657,0.0277,-0.002111,0.007943,-0.014123,0.003028,0.001221,-0.011535,-0.007823,0.000887,0.001383,0.001,-0.001747,0.014962,-0.005546,0.004217,-0.008502
    Illyrian:HRV_IA:I5729,0.127482,0.149283,0.038466,0,0.032621,0.003626,0.001645,-0.003923,0.012476,0.024237,-0.005846,0.014237,-0.018434,-0.005367,-0.003529,0.000398,0.004563,0.00266,0.001885,-0.002126,0,0.000495,0.002835,-0.003735,-0.00455
    Pakistan_Butkara,0.0599467,-0.0203103,-0.1306093,0.0803193,-0.087196,0.0472253,0.001645,0.003846,-0.005454,-6.07e-05,-0.0027063,-0.0017983,-0.004559,-0.005184,0.006198,0.0156897,0.0101263,-0.001605,0.0028073,-0.0067113,-0.0002497,-0.0084907,-0.0029167,-0.0037757,0.00475
    Celtic-England,0.1324143,0.1289723,0.060339,0.0472657,0.035391,0.0190573,0.0055617,0.0018463,0.0049767,0.004313,-0.0033557,0.004396,-0.008622,-0.018304,0.017372,0.0154247,0.0068667,-0.0030827,0.0019277,0.0041687,0.003785,-0.0002063,-0.0037387,0.011086,0.0007587
    Nordic,0.132035,0.125926,0.075801,0.068476,0.044931,0.026495,0.011281,0.006,0.002454,-0.010752,-0.003085,0.003297,-0.007433,0.002752,0.020358,-0.007955,-0.02021,0.006334,0.00817,0.006378,0.002995,0.000866,0.002465,0.007712,0.00455
    Caucasian,0.09675,0.090382,-0.021873,0.044574,-0.03693,0.026495,0.00282,-0.001846,-0.046018,-0.038452,-0.003248,0.003297,-0.000743,-0.020919,0.021444,0.020817,-0.009127,-0.000887,-0.002891,-0.00963,-0.000374,-0.001855,-0.000123,0.009399,0.001796
    Illyrian:ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14688,0.122929,0.161469,0.02489,-0.028101,0.028005,-0.015618,0.004935,0.001846,0.000409,0.019499,-0.000974,0.01139,-0.016799,-0.004266,-0.006786,-0.016441,-0.009518,0.004054,0.005028,-0.007253,-0.013601,0.009398,-0.005176,0.011086,-0.007065
    Illyrian:ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690,0.125205,0.149283,0.034318,-0.00646,0.029544,-0.005857,-0.001175,0.004846,-0.00225,0.019681,0.001461,0.002698,-0.020069,-0.006468,-0.003122,0.002121,0.001825,0.003167,0.002011,-0.002501,-0.007861,0.003462,0.005423,-0.004217,-0.005269
    Illyrian:ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692,0.125205,0.152329,0.025644,-0.010336,0.019388,0.001116,-0.008695,0.003461,0.006136,0.025878,0.007145,0.010641,-0.018583,-0.00234,-0.011536,-0.006099,0.008605,0.00038,0.009679,-0.004877,-0.010981,-0.006183,-0.001479,0.012411,0.003113
    Illyrian:ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16251,0.124067,0.144205,0.018102,-0.019703,0.025851,-0.003347,0.002115,0.008077,0.000205,0.022233,-0.000974,0.005095,-0.017096,-0.017753,-0.013301,-0.003447,0.00665,-0.003294,0.010182,-0.013006,-0.000125,0.005441,-0.007148,-0.001687,-0.004431
    Illyrian:ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16253,0.130897,0.156392,0.034318,-0.010982,0.035083,-0.000279,0.002115,0.001846,0.0045,0.029158,0.008931,0.015436,-0.024083,-0.001927,-0.012893,0.000796,0.012647,0.008361,0.011816,-0.009505,-0.011355,-0.002349,-0.003944,0.008917,-0.007185
    Illyrian:ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16254,0.120652,0.157407,0.039598,-0.006137,0.031698,-0.011992,0.00705,-0.014076,-0.011044,0.033896,-0.002761,0.001349,-0.018137,-0.005918,-0.010586,-0.007558,0.021774,0.00076,-0.009176,-0.013256,-0.006988,-0.003215,-0.010846,0.01446,-0.008382
    Illyrian:ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16256,0.118376,0.151314,0.02489,-0.005491,0.034468,-0.001673,0.00188,-0.003231,0,0.018406,0.005359,-0.000599,-0.013379,-0.014863,-0.006107,0.013392,0.034943,-0.003547,0.003645,-0.010255,0.01148,0.005812,-0.00037,0.005181,-0.009101
    Illyrian:ALB_MBA:I8471,0.124067,0.144205,0.017725,0.000323,0.03416,-0.019801,0.00564,-0.012461,0.011658,0.034078,0.003248,0.004346,-0.005352,-0.022432,-0.008822,0.004243,0.026989,-0.007475,0.001885,0.006128,-0.000873,0.006059,0.007765,0.010724,0.008143
    Balto-Slavic,0.135449,0.121864,0.095789,0.092055,0.055395,0.035698,0.014101,0.031845,0.000818,-0.039181,0.003897,-0.017534,0.043558,0.041149,-0.002579,-0.002917,-0.004563,0.006714,-0.00729,0.001376,0.012104,-0.011005,0.018734,-0.011086,-0.002155
    Slavic,0.129432857,0.125925714,0.073592429,0.065338286,0.041194286,0.024861286,0.011414857,0.010054429,2.92857E-05,-0.020046,-0.002667714,-0.005695,0.013549286,0.023513714,-0.010993286,-0.001894143,3.71429E-05,-0.000416429,0.004794571,0.003037143,-0.001033857,-0.005776143,0.008345714,-0.006850857,0.000906571
    Last edited by Vasile; 22-09-22 at 15:10.

  14. #489
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,353

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a

    Ethnic group
    North East Italian
    Country: Australia



    Distance to: Veritus_scaled
    0.03211889 Ancient-Macedonian:MKD_Anc:I10385
    0.03359832 Illyrian:HRV_IA:I5728
    0.03371179 Illyrian:HRV_IA:I3313
    0.03493691 Illyrian:HRV_IA:I5724
    0.03512270 Illyrian:ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14690
    0.03625781 Illyrian:HRV_IA:I5723
    0.03638883 Ancient-Macedonian:MKD_Anc:I10384
    0.03658043 Illyrian:HRV_IA:I5729
    0.03829119 Ancient-Macedonian:MKD_Anc:I10390
    0.03845144 Illyrian:HRV_IA:I5725
    0.04105698 Illyrian:ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14692
    0.04293207 Ancient-Macedonian:MKD_Anc:I10388
    0.04317831 Illyrian:ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16251
    0.04327667 Illyrian:ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I14688
    0.04448414 Ancient-Macedonian:MKD_Anc:I10391
    0.04709439 Illyrian:ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16253
    0.04772646 Illyrian:HRV_IA:I5727
    0.05230295 Ancient-Macedonian:MKD_Anc:I10387
    0.05234124 Ancient-Macedonian:MKD_Anc:I10381
    0.05384072 Ancient-Macedonian:MKD_Anc:I8112
    0.05783486 Illyrian:HRV_IA:I5726
    0.05809965 Ancient-Macedonian:MKD_Anc:I10389
    0.05995127 Illyrian:ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16254
    0.06079857 Ancient-Macedonian:MKD_Anc:I10383
    0.06375470 Illyrian:ALB_Cinamak_Anc:I16256


    Target: Veritus_scaled
    Distance: 0.0126% / 0.01258736
    39.2 Ancient-Macedonian
    38.2 Illyrian
    19.2 Nordic
    2.3 Balto-Slavic
    1.1 Pakistan_Butkara

  15. #490
    Regular Member matadworf's Avatar
    Join Date
    13-08-17
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    Florida
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    318


    Ethnic group
    Greek Messinia
    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Target: Anthony_C_scaled
    Distance: 2.0711% / 0.02071058
    73.2 Ancient-Macedonian
    13.0 Thracian
    8.4 Caucasian
    4.6 Balto-Slavic
    0.8 Pakistan_Butkara
    Target: Anthony_C_scaled
    Distance: 2.0711% / 0.02071058
    73.2 Ancient-Macedonian
    13.0 Thracian
    8.4 Caucasian
    4.6 Balto-Slavic
    0.8 Pakistan_Butkara

  16. #491
    Regular Member cybernautic's Avatar
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    Ethnic group
    Greek
    Country: UK - England



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by epirus1000 View Post
    The Illyrians were very close genetically to Macedonians and both survived much more than the ancient Greeks.
    Buahaha i need to laugh hard and loud.^

  17. #492
    Regular Member Wanderer's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-04-18
    Age
    30
    Posts
    338

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J-L283 (z627)

    Ethnic group
    Ancient
    Country: Algeria



    Quote Originally Posted by Dianatomia View Post
    I always though of the Paeonians as Thracians, or a Thraco-Illyrian mix of some sort. Some scholars also attested to the fact that they were closely connected to the Greeks as well. According to Homer they were related to the Phrygians living in Northern Greece. The Phrygians were dislocated by the Ancient Macedonians, and they migrated to Anatolia. But remains of the Phrygian language in Anatolia indicate that it was closely related to Greek in many respects. The Paeonians were certainly not Ancient Macedonians as they fought with them regularly. But they could have been biologically related to Greeks in general.
    In any case, based on all researches so far, North IA Greeks, Paeonians, Thracians and the like plot closer to modern Greeks (and Italians, Albanians) than Mycenaeans. So either Mycenaeans + some Slavic is indicative of these populations, or there was an Ancient migration from that area to Greece at some point of time.
    Thats why I asked about the phrygian tombs and if anyone has dna on it.

    Heres one
    https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedi...-gordion-tomb/

  18. #493
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 members found this post helpful.
    A_Question, who is clearly a sock of enter_tain is permanently banned. Since enter_tain is constantly trying to evade his 2 month suspension, he is now also permanently banned.

    Good job, buddy. Do you make such horrible choices in every part of your life?

    Are there no sane members of our Albanian community here who have any influence on these loons? Do you think I want to spend part of my Saturday dealing with this stuff?

  19. #494
    Regular Member
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    Ethnic group
    Korean
    Country: South Korea



    Certainly, the hypothesis that the northern Balkans migrated south and mixed with the Greeks sounds more plausible to me than the hypothesis that the Slavs mixed directly with the Greeks.

  20. #495
    Regular Member mount123's Avatar
    Join Date
    30-12-21
    Posts
    673

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b-L283>Y52453
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c7a

    Country: Kosovo



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    A_Question, who is clearly a sock of enter_tain is permanently banned. Since enter_tain is constantly trying to evade his 2 month suspension, he is now also permanently banned.

    Good job, buddy. Do you make such horrible choices in every part of your life?

    Are there no sane members of our Albanian community here who have any influence on these loons? Do you think I want to spend part of my Saturday dealing with this stuff?
    He has opened an incredible amount of 9 puppet accounts with the same content last time I was active on this page and as it seems another what 5 or 6? Not sure what one calls this behavior but there surely is an underlying psychological issue. Apart from reporting them I did not know of a better way to contribute here.

  21. #496
    Regular Member Wanderer's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-04-18
    Age
    30
    Posts
    338

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J-L283 (z627)

    Ethnic group
    Ancient
    Country: Algeria



    [spoiler]
    Kit number: M658611, Elapsed time: 9.62 seconds.




    Population
    Amerindian-
    Arabian0.48 Pct
    Armenian-
    Basque1.03 Pct
    Central_African-
    Central_Euro-
    East_African-
    East_Asian-
    East_Balkan-
    East_Central_Asian-
    East_Central_Euro-
    East_Med12.79 Pct
    Eastern_Euro-
    Fennoscandian-
    French-
    Iberian14.62 Pct
    Indo-Chinese-
    Italian33.01 Pct
    Malayan-
    Near_Eastern7.24 Pct
    North_African7.43 Pct
    North_Atlantic-
    North_Caucasian-
    North_Sea-
    Northeast_African-
    Oceanian0.6 Pct
    Omotic-
    Pygmy-
    Siberian-
    South_Asian-
    South_Central_Asian-
    South_Chinese-
    Volga-Ural-
    West_African2.79 Pct
    West_Caucasian-
    West_Med19.99

    number: M572712, Elapsed time: 10.17 seconds.
    [/spoiler]

    North_African7.43 Pct
    [Spoiler]

    Population
    Amerindian-
    Arabian2.59 Pct
    Armenian-
    Basque0.7 Pct
    Central_African-
    Central_Euro-
    East_African-
    East_Asian-
    East_Balkan-
    East_Central_Asian-
    East_Central_Euro-
    East_Med17.76 Pct
    Eastern_Euro-
    Fennoscandian-
    French-
    Iberian7.8 Pct
    Indo-Chinese-
    Italian35.1 Pct
    Malayan-
    Near_Eastern8.08 Pct
    North_African3.8 Pct
    North_Atlantic-
    North_Caucasian-
    North_Sea-
    Northeast_African-
    Oceanian-
    Omotic-
    Pygmy-
    Siberian-
    South_Asian-
    South_Central_Asian-
    South_Chinese-
    Volga-Ural-
    West_African-
    West_Caucasian-
    West_Med24.14
    [/spoiler]
    Arabian2.59 + North_African3.8 Pct = 6.47

  22. #497
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 members found this post helpful.
    WOW!

    I just can't get over the persuasiveness of your arguments.

  23. #498
    Regular Member Wanderer's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-04-18
    Age
    30
    Posts
    338

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J-L283 (z627)

    Ethnic group
    Ancient
    Country: Algeria



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    WOW!

    I just can't get over the persuasiveness of your arguments.
    You have ancient kits I can test?

  24. #499
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    25-06-18
    Posts
    1,681

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-M269 (LDNA)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a1b

    Ethnic group
    Thracian
    Country: Greece



    Wanderer you actually should run GEDmatch's Oracle's for whatever calculator you're using.

    BTW, in 1940 there were 250,000 Greek descent people in Egypt. Now there are about 1,000. If this person is one of the descendants of the 250,000 I would expect some Egyptian/Middle East admixture. No way you're going to have Greeks in Egypt in large number since the Hellenistic period and not have admixture.

  25. #500
    Regular Member Dorian9's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-04-19
    Posts
    19


    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Wanderer you actually should run GEDmatch's Oracle's for whatever calculator you're using.

    BTW, in 1940 there were 250,000 Greek descent people in Egypt. Now there are about 1,000. If this person is one of the descendants of the 250,000 I would expect some Egyptian/Middle East admixture. No way you're going to have Greeks in Egypt in large number since the Hellenistic period and not have admixture.
    The samples he posted are from Neolithic Greece.Other than that Egyptiotes do not have such deep origins there ,they're a post 18th century community with Greeks from all over the Greek world like Western Anatolia ones ,on average it's certain they don't have non-Greek admix just like the latter.Individually when there is ,it will be known because it will be recent.

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