Comparing Ancient Greek populations to modern Greeks and Italians

Frankly, I think his G25 calculator is flawed in terms of the components it uses which makes the coordinates within and of themselves flawed. Maybe more for some particular ancestries more than others.

For example, It seems to make Minoans more "North" than they should be, and south Italians more "South" in relation to them. Which is absolutely wrong, if you look at virtually every single academic PCA created that projects them.

I don't doubt it's flawed, as I've said many times in many threads.

I just got tired of reading that G25 shows this and that, when it actually doesn't.

The conclusions people are drawing from their "preferred" calculator's results are themselves flawed. If it's not pointed out, the misinformation out there just keeps on increasing.
 
One of our American posters once stated that as to the question of where the ancient Romans went, they didn't go anywhere. All you had to do was go to a museum in Italy, look at the statues, and look at the Italians around you. :)

Indeed, I can't imagine describing this face as anything else than Italian:

wjhLXPI.jpg
 
I don't doubt it's flawed, as I've said many times in many threads.

I just got tired of reading that G25 shows this and that, when it actually doesn't.

The conclusions people are drawing from their "preferred" calculator's results are themselves flawed. If it's not pointed out, the misinformation out there just keeps on increasing.

It is annoying, and I agree, pointing out the flaws is a must. I pointed out two logical fallacies in another thread that people often use to "justify" how it is better, the bandwagon fallacy, and the appeal to novelty. Both of which prove nothing. For example, MTA is possibly more popular and even newer than G25, and I think it is even worse.
 
Indeed, I can't imagine describing this face as anything else than Italian:

wjhLXPI.jpg
[ /QUOTE]

I agree.

A female version perhaps?


The problem is that most foreigners have no idea what Italians look like, because they've never traveled the length and breadth of Italy for extended periods of time, and have only seen some 19th century plates chosen with pre-conceptions in mind, or modern pictures posted by people with their own agendas, and as often as not posting people who aren't actually Italian, or are Italians after the summer holidays, as if the ability to tan makes you European or non-European.

It's just a constant stream of misinformation and misunderstanding.
 
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People see what they want, but most people are just mediocre, and some are just plain dumb. Then there's more intelligent people that just lie to appeal to their sensibilities. Thus, an exceedingly small sub-set of humanity's opinion is worth anything really.
 
Indeed, I can't imagine describing this face as anything else than Italian:

wjhLXPI.jpg
[ /QUOTE]

I agree.

A female version perhaps?


The problem is that most foreigners have no idea what Italians look like, because they've never traveled the length and breadth of Italy for extended periods of time, and have only seen some 19th century plates chosen with pre-conceptions in mind, or modern pictures posted by people with their own agendas, and as often as not posting people who aren't actually Italian, or are Italians after the summer holidays, as if the ability to tan makes you European or non-European.



It's just a constant stream of misinformation and misunderstanding.


She is definitely a good-looking female version of Caesar. Is she an Italian actress? Anyway, Caesar on the busts looks indeed Italian. I’ve been many times to Italy (mostly in North and Central Italy) and Caesar would blend in well there. Due to the extremely realistic sculptures of Roman Emperors, I think we get a good idea how they and other native Romans might have looked like in real.

Ed. apologies, but I removed my picture.
 
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She is definitely a good-looking female version of Caesar. Is she an Italian actress? Anyway, Caesar on the busts looks indeed Italian. I’ve been many times to Italy (mostly in North and Central Italy) and Caesar would blend in well there. Due to the extremely realistic sculptures of Roman Emperors, I think we get a good idea how they and other native Romans might have looked like in real.

Nice snow job, real expert. :)

Of course, it's me.

Or, it was me. :) It's my children's favorite picture of me. My daughter told me she'll blow it up and use it at my funeral, because that's the expression she remembers from her childhood.* I asked her if I should take it that she's anxious for her inheritance!:p

What can I say? She's like me: likes to plan ahead.

*Notice she said childhood, not adolescence. :LOL: There were times then that I had to go for a walk or bite through my lip to control myself. Thank-God they change back after a few years.
 
Nice snow job, real expert. :)

Of course, it's me.

Or, it was me. :) It's my children's favorite picture of me. My daughter told me she'll blow it up and use it at my funeral, because that's the expression she remembers from her childhood.* I asked her if I should take it that she's anxious for her inheritance!:p

What can I say? She's like me: likes to plan ahead.

*Notice she said childhood, not adolescence. :LOL: There were times then that I had to go for a walk or bite through my lip to control myself. Thank-God they change back after a few years.

What does a snow job mean? Seriously I didn‘t know that the woman in this picture was actually you. There are so many pics of actresses especially Italian ones here and on TA that a certain actress that I've once saw with a similar haircut and face popped into my mind. However, I sincerely think that the woman- you in the picture looks good and resembles Caesar in this specific recreation. No joke! Anyway, since you're a married woman I don't want to sound flirting or so. Hence, I'll leave it there.

 
What does a snow job mean? Seriously I didn‘t know that the woman in this picture was actually you. There are so many pics of actresses especially Italian ones here and on TA that a certain actress that I've once saw with a similar haircut and face popped into my mind. However, I sincerely think that the woman- you in the picture looks good and resembles Caesar in this specific recreation. No joke! Anyway, since you're a married woman I don't want to sound flirting or so. Hence, I'll leave it there.


That's fine, R.E.

It's an American expression which means flattering someone to get on their good side. Sometimes I forget how idiomatically I speak, in both English and Italian. I was just joking; it wasn't meant seriously.

That picture was my profile picture for so long I thought everyone must have seen it by now, that's all, so I thought you'd seen it too.

That's also only one recreation, of course, although I think it's a good recreation of that one particular bust. Also, even if it wasn't modeled on Caesar, it was modeled on an Italian of that time period, so the point remains that the phenotypes haven't changed too much.

I'd be highly insulted if someone thought I looked like this bust supposedly of Caesar. :) Another one looks as if he has a tumor growing out of his head.

375984e30cb049ef5bbe3216658c88b4.jpg


The Julio-Claudians did have weird heads, but these are too much. It has to be a fake:
444px_caesartusculum1.jpg
 
Yeah, that reconstruction is ridicilous. I wouldn't particularly associate that kind of look with one of the most memorable commanders of ancient world. His face doesn't command respect and fear. If i was his soldier i would refuse to fall for his command to do 1 pushup letalone fight for him to death.
 
That's fine, R.E.

It's an American expression which means flattering someone to get on their good side. Sometimes I forget how idiomatically I speak, in both English and Italian. I was just joking; it wasn't meant seriously.

That picture was my profile picture for so long I thought everyone must have seen it by now, that's all, so I thought you'd seen it too.

That's also only one recreation, of course, although I think it's a good recreation of that one particular bust. Also, even if it wasn't modeled on Caesar, it was modeled on an Italian of that time period, so the point remains that the phenotypes haven't changed too much........


The only avatar I knew of you was the Etruscan Lady before you changed it. Besides, I had the gut feeling that the term "snow work" has a negative meaning. Here's the thing, I'm long around in this forum to have figured out that you are the very opposite of a gullible or naive lady. Thus I don't waste my time buttering you up to get on your good side. What I rather try and want to do is present facts in the most unbiased way possible, express my honest take on certain topics, and be polite by doing so. In too many discussions and forums, people don't show much decorum. Anyway, we had good conservations and also not few disagreements. However, to me, there is nothing creepier than making fake compliments or trying to flatter people in an insincere way. So, before I make a fake compliment to a woman or a man for that matter I keep my mouth shut. It's a matter of self-respect and the respect of others to refrain from behaving like a sycophant or worse a slimeball.





 

The only avatar I knew of you was the Etruscan Lady before you changed it. Besides, I had the gut feeling that the term "snow work" has a negative meaning. Here's the thing, I'm long around in this forum to have figured out that you are the very opposite of a gullible or naive lady. Thus I don't waste my time buttering you up to get on your good side. What I rather try and want to do is present facts in the most unbiased way possible, express my honest take on certain topics, and be polite by doing so. In too many discussions and forums, people don't show much decorum. Anyway, we had good conservations and also not few disagreements. However, to me, there is nothing creepier than making fake compliments or trying to flatter people in an insincere way. So, before I make a fake compliment to a woman or a man for that matter I keep my mouth shut. It's a matter of self-respect and the respect of others to refrain from behaving like a sycophant or worse a slimeball.






R.E., I'm trying very hard not to respond in a negative way. I'll say it again. It was a JOKE, a bit of what I thought was witty repartee. In my experience men often pay compliments out of politeness, whether it's here, in Italy, France, etc. It doesn't mean they want to have an affair with you for heaven's sake. The response a lot of women are more comfortable with than just saying thank you is to make some sort of witty come back. Haven't you ever heard the phrase, "Oh, I bet you say that to all the girls!". It's old fashioned Americana, what a woman might say to a man who paid her a compliment, a way of saying oh, you don't have to say that just because it's the polite thing to say.

Forget it. Maybe in Germany you don't do that sort of thing, so you have no idea what I'm talking about.

I must say, though, you must have some trouble with British and American media content if you can so misread my original post and then get so incredibly pedantic on top of it. You'd think you were going to challenge me to a duel at 6 AM. :) That's a JOKE TOO, HINT, HINT.

Also, don't go looking for insults. If I want to insult you, you'll know it. Italians are very direct that way, and New Yorkers too. No subtle innuendo; more in your face. :)
 
Yeah, that reconstruction is ridicilous. I wouldn't particularly associate that kind of look with one of the most memorable commanders of ancient world. His face doesn't command respect and fear. If i was his soldier i would refuse to fall for his command to do 1 pushup letalone fight for him to death.

That reconstruction is based on the bust from the Netherlands. There's a whole paper on it and how it's the only one from when he was alive and so he must have looked like that.

I didn't believe it then and I don't believe it now.

His head looks deformed in the bust, and I think it's a terrible reconstruction of the bust.

Not that being handsome was a prerequisite for being a great general and statesman. I mean, look at Cato the Elder. Has there ever been an uglier or more frightening looking man? My husband thought it was funny and even admirable in a way that he ended every speech, even about maintaining the drains, by saying Carthago delenda est. Carthage must be destroyed. He just seemed obsessive to me, and a completely rigid enforcer of "morality".

cato-the-elder-2.jpg
 
That's fin

I'd be highly insulted if someone thought I looked like this bust supposedly of Caesar. :) Another one looks as if he has a tumor growing out of his head.

375984e30cb049ef5bbe3216658c88b4.jpg


The Julio-Claudians did have weird heads, but these are too much. It has to be a fake:
444px_caesartusculum1.jpg

This is the so-called Tusculum Bust of Julius Caesar.

I read a very convincing article which stated that his features were exaggerated by the sculptor because the head was intended as part of a funeral statue which was to be viewed from below.

I will try and find and link the article.
 
This one is more realistic.

face-reconstruction-famous-people-from-antiquity-5fd8b3f1ada65__700.jpg
 
Yes, the artists who did the recreation for the Dutch paper must have been on drugs.

This is better, but who knows if the bust is actually a good representation of him. It still has that huge bulge on one side, which doesn't inspire confidence. Still it's very realistic looking. You can find Italian men of this age who look like that all over Italy.
 
Indeed, I can't imagine describing this face as anything else than Italian:

wjhLXPI.jpg
[ /QUOTE]

I agree.

A female version perhaps?


The problem is that most foreigners have no idea what Italians look like, because they've never traveled the length and breadth of Italy for extended periods of time, and have only seen some 19th century plates chosen with pre-conceptions in mind, or modern pictures posted by people with their own agendas, and as often as not posting people who aren't actually Italian, or are Italians after the summer holidays, as if the ability to tan makes you European or non-European.

It's just a constant stream of misinformation and misunderstanding.

The man looks distinctly Italian.
 

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