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Thread: "disconnecting the link between (European) DNA and Identity and Belonging"

  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Totally agree Alichu!... quit logical.
    I agree too, you have quit logic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I agree too, you have quit logic.
    The differences between humans are not 'that dramatic' like the difference between a horse and a donkey.

    As an effect of that you can define subsets (or whatever the label for that), but the definition of that (because it's not fundamental like horse/donkey) is per definition man made (where do you draw the lines, set the limits, zoom in zoom out).

    So still real but definitely arbitrary.

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    Are there only two sub-species of tigers, or are there six?

    https://www.science.org/content/arti...wo-types-tiger

    Three years later, they confirm there are indeed 6 sub-species.

    https://www.cell.com/current-biology...822(18)31214-4

    https://news.mongabay.com/2018/10/ge...er-subspecies/

    I guess now that we decided there is only one type of human and zero sub-species back in Richard Lewontin's tenure, the conversation must end. Well, I guess no matter how much more information comes out about differences, we can a least know that archeogeneticists will always come to the conclusion that there are zero. Thank you for your time comrade.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Are there only two sub-species of tigers, or are there six?

    https://www.science.org/content/arti...wo-types-tiger

    I guess now that we decided there is only one type of human and zero sub-species back in Richard Lewontin's tenure, the conversation must end. Well, I guess no matter how much more information comes out about differences, we can a least know that archeogeneticists will always come to the conclusion that there are zero. Thank you for your time comrade.
    That's the question!

    From the article:

    'If the new classification is adopted'
    Not a given fact, but 'man made'.

    I guess the conversation is not at end, but indeed let's leave it that way. Bella Ciao


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    Nothing is agreed upon, in fact it only hardens my resolve on the issue. It also shows me that the only thing "man made" is the delusion that biological reality is a social construct. IMHO

    Communist, or fake Italian? Maybe both:



    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Nothing is agreed upon, in fact it only hardens my resolve on the issue. It also shows me that the only thing "man made" is the delusion that biological reality is a social construct. IMHO
    On topic.

    You don't make clear why my statement is wrong.

    What is wrong?:

    Humans are not like horses and donkeys. So no different species within humans.

    Within the human specie we can identify different subsets (give it a name, you could call it race too). They are real. Not fake.

    Nevertheless the definition of the subset- is like with the tigers- not some kind of neutral act. It's how you make the classifications, the limits within.

    And also within the European subset we can detect different subsets. They are real but not inherently given, not obvious. Because analogue to the tigers when it al was inherently obvious why discussions about 2 or 6 subsets? When it was a given thing there was NO discussion about the amount of subset. With humans it's likewise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Nothing is agreed upon, in fact it only hardens my resolve on the issue. It also shows me that the only thing "man made" is the delusion that biological reality is a social construct. IMHO

    Communist, or fake Italian? Maybe both:






    And for the rest naming and kind of shaming is imo not chique (to say the least).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Within the human specie we can identify different subsets (give it a name, you could call it race too). They are real. Not fake.
    Then what exactly are you hung up about? Because that is what I have been saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    And for the rest naming and kind of shaming is imo not chique (to say the least).
    Neither is a psychotic commitment to the deracination of various peoples through sock-accounts, and sophistry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Then what exactly are you hung up about? Because that is what I have been saying.
    But not until the end and that's the difference.

    Nevertheless the definition of the subset- is like with the tigers- not some kind of neutral act. It's how you make the classifications, the limits within.
    And also within the European subset we can detect different subsets. They are real but not inherently given, not obvious. Because analogue to the tigers when it al was inherently obvious why discussions about 2 or 6 subsets? When it was a given thing there was NO discussion about the amount of subset. With humans it's likewise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Neither is a psychotic commitment to the deracination of various peoples through sock-accounts, and sophistry.
    Who are you pointing at? Me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Who are you pointing at? Me?
    No, I am pointing at:

    Er Monnezza/Sickeliot/Azzurro

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    No, I am pointing at:

    Er Monnezza/Sickeliot/Azzurro
    Nevertheless you involve me in this by publishing who is behind my likes.....and making conclusions based on that.

    That's beyond the socket thing.

  13. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Nevertheless you involve me in this by publishing who is behind my likes.....and making conclusions based on that.

    That's beyond the socket thing.
    Cry me a river. Get over it, or don't I could care less TBH.

    Also, this thread has been completely derailed, and I am sick of reading posts by you and alichu trying to have the last word over me. Many pages of repeating the same arguments.

    This thread was not even about whether race was a social construct or not. It was about people like Thomas Booth intentionally trying to deny only Europeans any sense of identity and belonging, and using word manipulation, rather than facts to do so.

    Therefore, I am closing this thread until anything more develops on this topic. Hopefully by then, we will not have the same boring old conversations.

  14. #264
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Found this image on Razib Khan's page, demonstrating the genetic diversity of South Asians vs Europeans.



    ran pairwise Fst on what i thought were some representative populations in plink. probably inflated by indian endogamy but gives you a qualitative feel

    Razib 🥥 Khan 🧬 📘✍️📱 (@razibkhan) / Twitter

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