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Pax Augusta: Thanks for the PCA's you posted to the community here in this forum. Since there are no new modern Sicilian samples in the Reitsema et al 2022 paper, can you tell me where do the modern Sicilian samples that we have published to date and have coordinates estimated from various amateur calculators plot on your PCA with these new samples.
I will do others, but with K12b in the post #177 you can find the Sicilian academic samples in the PCAs.
Distance to: | AJF |
---|---|
1.85619324 | 62.40% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 + 37.60% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20166 |
4.61240351 | 74.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10952 + 25.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 |
4.74210886 | 72.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10948 + 27.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 |
4.75706105 | 23.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 + 76.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7217 |
4.86800142 | 58.00% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 + 42.00% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20168 |
4.95129315 | 27.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 + 72.20% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7224 |
4.98300118 | 27.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 + 72.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7218 |
5.29093229 | 79.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10945 + 21.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 |
5.50729369 | 67.00% Baucina_MtFalcone_Sicani_Med:I13125 + 33.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 |
5.89197248 | 34.60% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17866 + 65.40% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 |
5.93711491 | 71.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10948 + 29.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus:I10951 |
6.00769272 | 77.40% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17866 + 22.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 |
6.05798745 | 35.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus:I10951 + 64.80% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I17878 |
6.06606718 | 69.80% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 + 30.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7221 |
6.12257492 | 19.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10950 + 80.80% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 |
6.25160378 | 31.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10952 + 69.00% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 |
6.33110742 | 64.60% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20166 + 35.40% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I20167 |
6.40238240 | 73.00% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 + 27.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7219 |
6.43059303 | 8.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe:I10943 + 92.00% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 |
6.47257319 | 7.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe_lc:I10949 + 92.20% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 |
6.55530566 | 35.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10945 + 64.80% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 |
6.62680172 | 32.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus:I10951 + 67.60% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I20162 |
6.64995893 | 27.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 + 73.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7219 |
6.66244045 | 33.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 + 66.40% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7223 |
6.73589437 | 23.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus:I10951 + 76.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7217 |
117884, the Himera sample so close to Dodecad's combined Sicilian/Southern Italian set is my husband's closest sample, at 7.9.
This is his two way: 62%117884 and 38% 120166, a very eastern shifted Himera civilian population. Also, the soldiers in the 409 B.C. Battle were local hoplites.
Distance to: AJF 1.85619324 62.40% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 + 37.60% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20166 4.61240351 74.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10952 + 25.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 4.74210886 72.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10948 + 27.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 4.75706105 23.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 + 76.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7217 4.86800142 58.00% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 + 42.00% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20168 4.95129315 27.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 + 72.20% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7224 4.98300118 27.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 + 72.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7218 5.29093229 79.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10945 + 21.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 5.50729369 67.00% Baucina_MtFalcone_Sicani_Med:I13125 + 33.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 5.89197248 34.60% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17866 + 65.40% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 5.93711491 71.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10948 + 29.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus:I10951 6.00769272 77.40% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17866 + 22.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 6.05798745 35.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus:I10951 + 64.80% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I17878 6.06606718 69.80% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 + 30.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7221 6.12257492 19.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10950 + 80.80% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 6.25160378 31.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10952 + 69.00% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 6.33110742 64.60% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20166 + 35.40% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I20167 6.40238240 73.00% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 + 27.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7219 6.43059303 8.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe:I10943 + 92.00% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 6.47257319 7.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe_lc:I10949 + 92.20% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 6.55530566 35.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10945 + 64.80% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 6.62680172 32.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus:I10951 + 67.60% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I20162 6.64995893 27.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 + 73.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7219 6.66244045 33.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 + 66.40% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7223 6.73589437 23.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus:I10951 + 76.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7217
I wonder if someone from Anthrogenica would like to come here and tell me that it would require a mass replacement from Anatolia and the Levant in the Imperial and Byzantine Eras to produce Southern Italian genomes?
117884, the Himera sample so close to Dodecad's combined Sicilian/Southern Italian set is my husband's closest sample, at 7.9.
This is his two way: 62%117884 and 38% 120166, a very eastern shifted Himera civilian population. Also, the soldiers in the 409 B.C. Battle were local hoplites.
Distance to: AJF 1.85619324 62.40% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 + 37.60% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20166 4.61240351 74.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10952 + 25.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 4.74210886 72.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10948 + 27.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 4.75706105 23.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 + 76.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7217 4.86800142 58.00% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 + 42.00% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20168 4.95129315 27.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 + 72.20% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7224 4.98300118 27.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 + 72.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7218 5.29093229 79.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10945 + 21.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 5.50729369 67.00% Baucina_MtFalcone_Sicani_Med:I13125 + 33.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 5.89197248 34.60% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17866 + 65.40% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 5.93711491 71.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10948 + 29.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus:I10951 6.00769272 77.40% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17866 + 22.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 6.05798745 35.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus:I10951 + 64.80% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I17878 6.06606718 69.80% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 + 30.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7221 6.12257492 19.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10950 + 80.80% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 6.25160378 31.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10952 + 69.00% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 6.33110742 64.60% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20166 + 35.40% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I20167 6.40238240 73.00% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 + 27.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7219 6.43059303 8.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe:I10943 + 92.00% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 6.47257319 7.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe_lc:I10949 + 92.20% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 6.55530566 35.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10945 + 64.80% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 6.62680172 32.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus:I10951 + 67.60% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I20162 6.64995893 27.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 + 73.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7219 6.66244045 33.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872 + 66.40% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7223 6.73589437 23.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus:I10951 + 76.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7217
I wonder if someone from Anthrogenica would like to come here and tell me that it would require a mass replacement from Anatolia and the Levant in the Imperial and Byzantine Eras to produce Southern Italian genomes?
I17784 is low quality sample and I20166 is ancient Greek. Look at high Caucasus in other charts.And there was never replacement just admixture from other regions.
@KingJohn … it seems that the Stamatoyannopoulos samples in the dataset, don’t carry enough Y chr. calls for a confident y Haplogroup prediction in the Y-Morley, and Yseq oracle.Nice salento
Can you check also the greek samples
Mainland, and islanders ?
Jovialis: I have been thinking of some additional analyses to with the New Iron Age Sicilian samples. Since it is not disputable that the Sicani were an Iron Age Sicilian population and the evidence based on the new Reitsema et al 2022 study, likely autochthonous, here are the Sicani samples using your Italian model (with Minoan source populations). It works quite well in my opinion.
@KingJohn … it seems that the Stamatoyannopoulos samples in the dataset, don’t carry enough Y chr. calls for a confident y Haplogroup prediction in the Y-Morley, and Yseq oracle.
... example:
rs9786038 Y 14140277 --
rs17306699 Y 14144593 --
rs16980473 Y 14159846 --
rs9786290 Y 14171665 --
rs9786774 Y 14193384 --
rs16980478 Y 14199284 --
rs9786736 Y 14199508 --
rs35248080 Y 14286528 --
rs17269396 Y 14288981 --
....
^ 62.40% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 + 37.60% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20166
I17884 is a very low quality sample. And the other one is a high quality Ancient Greek (civilian) sample.
I was not talking about Northern European admixture at all. Your own model imply >25% West Asian admixture with a very distant source and it has quite a good fit without any North European source.
I did post those models you did.
74.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10952 + 25.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc:I17872
And most of others have the Caucasus source too.
Distance to: | Prenestini_o_IA:R437:Antonio_2019 |
---|---|
5.28451511 | Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10945 |
5.85285400 | Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7217 |
6.49901531 | Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10952 |
7.53094948 | Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7224 |
7.54061669 | Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17866 |
7.66384368 | Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7218 |
8.25112114 | Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10948 |
9.17234975 | Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7219 |
9.22609885 | Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20168 |
10.75663981 | Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884 |
11.33649858 | Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7221 |
11.35824370 | Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I20162 |
11.93048616 | Baucina_MtFalcone_Sicani_Med:I13125 |
12.71922954 | Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7223 |
12.72982325 | Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20166 |
13.06781925 | Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7225 |
14.40472492 | Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I17878 |
14.62044459 | Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13376 |
15.86945494 | Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13377 |
16.04456294 | Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13384 |
16.22346449 | Baucina_MtFalcone_Sicani_Med_lc:I13128 |
16.33732842 | Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13379 |
16.34700890 | Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13386 |
16.51218338 | Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20163 |
16.55102414 | Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13390 |
I17884 has 5% coverage and is distant from other Greek samples with a minimum distance of 12.
I was looking for it in G25 database and it was not put there because it has only 5% coverage. There was also even an E-V13 sample plotting with Caucasus with even lower coverage which also was ignored by G25.
Distance to: | Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med_lc:I17884 |
---|---|
10.50687870 | Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7217 |
11.09019387 | Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I17881 |
11.25451021 | Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10948 |
11.30400372 | Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10945 |
11.41643990 | Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I17878 |
13.32291635 | Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I20162 |
13.33521278 | Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7218 |
14.48035911 | Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10952 |
14.49883788 | Baucina_MtFalcone_Sicani_Med:I13125 |
14.52935993 | Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17866 |
14.98962975 | Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7224 |
15.73845926 | Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20168 |
15.80759944 | Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7219 |
15.82558372 | Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7225 |
16.29403572 | Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7221 |
17.72009029 | Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13377 |
17.73477939 | Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7223 |
17.82512272 | Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13384 |
18.14798887 | Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13385 |
18.20148620 | Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13386 |
18.21596827 | Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I17879 |
18.31825592 | Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13382 |
18.37818544 | Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13383 |
18.38578255 | Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I17432 |
18.40606965 | Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13376 |
Target: Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med_lc:I17884 Distance: 3.1102% / 3.11018596 | |
---|---|
76.8 | Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc |
13.7 | Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc |
9.5 | Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med |
Target: Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med_lc:I17884 Distance: 3.1102% / 3.11018596 | |
---|---|
76.8 | Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc |
13.7 | Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc |
9.5 | Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med |
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