The diverse genetic origins of a Classical period Greek army

Salento said:
Thank you, everyone :)

… more modern Apulians Y Haplogroups, … GS could stands for Grecìa-Salentina, but I’m not sure, … I finally found a y T … lol :)

… from the Raveane_Aneli_Montinaro data:

GS32_Apulia - J2a
GS34_Apulia - G2a3b1a1a
GS47_Apulia - E1b1b1b2a1a
ALP379_Apulia - I2a1
cera1_Apulia - G2a3b1a1a
cera2_Apulia - J2a1h2a1
cera8_Apulia - I1
cera9_Apulia - J2a1h2a1
Pu2_Apulia - J1
Pu3_Apulia - R1b1a2a1a2c1i~2
Pu7_Apulia - R1b1
Pu8_Apulia - T1a
Pu45_Apulia - I1
Click to expand...


Can you link the genotype files source, please? I want to check for Y-DNA SNP calls.
 
@Angela
Some folks suffer from an identity crisis, hence they latch on to heritage they don't belong to, searching for greatness and glory they don't find in their own past. Besides, I devoured countless history books, and no serious historian ever suggested that Ancient Greeks or Romans were Nordic folks whatsoever. This Romans were Nordic stuff-is preposterous, pseudo, and revisionist history that isn't taken seriously by people who care about historical facts anyway. Nobody who reads primary sources and applies basic common sense would buy for a second this Ancient Greeks or Romans were German or Celtic-like myth. It actually doesn't take Ancient DNA studies to figure that out. The thing is, Ancient Roman or Greek history is cool. And therefore there are some people who begrudge modern Italians or Greeks for their rich heritage. It's a display of childish and weak behavior if you ask me. I can't speak for other countries, but in Germany, Romans are always associated with Italians, and Italians are viewed as the physical descendants of Rome. Anyway, anthro-forums attract plenty of weirdos in all varieties. This can be frustrating and tiring when having to deal with them, especially when discussing and interpreting Ancient DNA and its implication.
 
Guys,do we have any gedmatch kit numbers of himaeran and mycenaean(kastrouli,nestor etc) samples?
 
All Apulians PCA: Salento_me, Leccesi from Grecìa-Salentina and Pugliesi,
(Y flipped once), ... I end up in the center, in both PCAs.

Leccesi, aka Salentini :)

dL0g5zL.gif



All the Pugliesi, aka Apulians:

SBOrkfL.gif
 
Jovialis said:
No question about it, you are a true Apulian, Salento.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jovialis, ... more or less, you and I, and most Apulians ... we're all true Apulians :)
 
real expert said:
@Angela
Some folks suffer from an identity crisis, hence they latch on to heritage they don't belong to, searching for greatness and glory they don't find in their own past. Besides, I devoured countless history books, and no serious historian ever suggested that Ancient Greeks or Romans were Nordic folks whatsoever. This Romans were Nordic stuff-is preposterous, pseudo, and revisionist history that isn't taken seriously by people who care about historical facts anyway. Nobody who reads primary sources and applies basic common sense would buy for a second this Ancient Greeks or Romans were German or Celtic-like myth. It actually doesn't take Ancient DNA studies to figure that out. The thing is, Ancient Roman or Greek history is cool. And therefore there are some people who begrudge modern Italians or Greeks for their rich heritage. It's a display of childish and weak behavior if you ask me. I can't speak for other countries, but in Germany, Romans are always associated with Italians, and Italians are viewed as the physical descendants of Rome. Anyway, anthro-forums attract plenty of weirdos in all varieties. This can be frustrating and tiring when having to deal with them, especially when discussing and interpreting Ancient DNA and its implication.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the comment. It is indeed frustrating and tiring dealing with the "weirdos" of all varieties which our "hobby" seems to attract. It's worse when they're not very bright. Sometimes it gets a bit too much.

At least the one who wanted to send hit men against one of our past moderators is gone, and the one who was going to find our houses and shoot us for being race traitors, and I haven't gotten a vile, graphic, expletive filled woman hating pm in a while, so things could be worse. :)
 
For ihype02, who I'm sure is lurking here under a sock, from your beloved G25, my husband's results. I get scores of 4 and 5 to modern Northern Italians. Pretty good for samples which are 2400 years old.

My husband's results:

Distance to:AJF
0.04531823ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7221
0.04762203ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I10952
0.05186836ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I10945
0.05667533ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7217
0.05794297ITA_Sicily_Himera_409BCE:I7223
0.05901178ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I10948
0.06363278ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7219
0.06838625ITA_Sicily_Himera_409BCE:I7224
0.07130391ITA_Sicily_Himera_409BCE:I7225
0.07171759ITA_Sicily_IA:I13128
0.07199459ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7218
0.07855030ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10946
0.07925628ITA_Sicily_IA:I13382
0.07943664ITA_Sicily_IA:I13384
0.07977739ITA_Sicily_IA:I13379
0.08036500ITA_Sicily_IA:I13389
0.08045912ITA_Sicily_IA:I13380
0.08065951ITA_Sicily_IA:I13391
0.08070412ITA_Sicily_IA:I13376
0.08101950ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10950
0.08170738ITA_Sicily_IA:I13390
0.08432435ITA_Sicily_IA:I13383
0.08711623ITA_Sicily_IA:I13387
0.08789653ITA_Sicily_IA:I13125
0.08815566ITA_Sicily_IA:I13392


This seems damn close to me, for 2400 year old samples:


Target: AJF
Distance: 0.0273% / 0.02730348

60.0ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1
19.0ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5
15.6ITA_Sicily_IA
5.4ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_4


And guess what? It doesn't include the sample you hate.

Distance to:AJF
0.0304316077.00% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I10952 + 23.00% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951
0.0344467634.00% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951 + 66.00% ITA_Sicily_IA:I13128
0.0345957672.40% ITA_Sicily_Himera_409BCE:I7223 + 27.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951
0.0348648885.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7221 + 14.40% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_4:I10944
0.0351567684.40% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I10952 + 15.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_4:I10944
0.0363362685.20% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I10952 + 14.80% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_4:I10947
0.0370053237.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951 + 62.40% ITA_Sicily_IA:I13390
0.0372375374.00% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7217 + 26.00% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951
0.0377842587.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7221 + 12.40% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_4:I10947
0.0377903936.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951 + 63.40% ITA_Sicily_IA:I13384
0.0379265037.00% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951 + 63.00% ITA_Sicily_IA:I13391
0.0384322736.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951 + 63.40% ITA_Sicily_IA:I13379
0.0385303788.40% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7221 + 11.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_3:I10949
0.0386916939.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951 + 60.40% ITA_Sicily_IA:I13125
0.0397417784.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7221 + 15.40% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951
0.0398144073.40% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I10948 + 26.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951
0.0402527590.20% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7221 + 9.80% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_3:I10943
0.0402560076.40% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7221 + 23.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10946
0.0402719836.20% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951 + 63.80% ITA_Sicily_IA:I13382
0.0403848836.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951 + 63.40% ITA_Sicily_IA:I13389
0.0404888581.20% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7217 + 18.80% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_4:I10944
0.0409176879.00% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I10945 + 21.00% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951
0.0411098340.20% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951 + 59.80% ITA_Sicily_IA:I13394
0.0415220139.40% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951 + 60.60% ITA_Sicily_IA:I13392
0.0421195589.00% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I10952 + 11.00% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_3:I10949
Target: AJF
Distance: 0.0273% / 0.02730348

60.0ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1
19.0ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5
15.6ITA_Sicily_IA
5.4ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_4
 
P7PhcwB.jpg
 
Angela said:
For ihype02, who I'm sure is lurking here under a sock, from your beloved G25, my husband's results. I get scores of 4 and 5 to modern Northern Italians. Pretty good for samples which are 2400 years old.

My husband's results:

Distance to:AJF
0.04531823ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7221
0.04762203ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I10952
0.05186836ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I10945
0.05667533ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7217
0.05794297ITA_Sicily_Himera_409BCE:I7223
0.05901178ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I10948
0.06363278ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7219
0.06838625ITA_Sicily_Himera_409BCE:I7224
0.07130391ITA_Sicily_Himera_409BCE:I7225
0.07171759ITA_Sicily_IA:I13128
0.07199459ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7218
0.07855030ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10946
0.07925628ITA_Sicily_IA:I13382
0.07943664ITA_Sicily_IA:I13384
0.07977739ITA_Sicily_IA:I13379
0.08036500ITA_Sicily_IA:I13389
0.08045912ITA_Sicily_IA:I13380
0.08065951ITA_Sicily_IA:I13391
0.08070412ITA_Sicily_IA:I13376
0.08101950ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10950
0.08170738ITA_Sicily_IA:I13390
0.08432435ITA_Sicily_IA:I13383
0.08711623ITA_Sicily_IA:I13387
0.08789653ITA_Sicily_IA:I13125
0.08815566ITA_Sicily_IA:I13392


This seems damn close to me, for 2400 year old samples:


Target: AJF
Distance: 0.0273% / 0.02730348
60.0ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1
19.0ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5
15.6ITA_Sicily_IA
5.4ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_4


And guess what? It doesn't include the sample you hate.

Distance to:AJF
0.0304316077.00% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I10952 + 23.00% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951
0.0344467634.00% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951 + 66.00% ITA_Sicily_IA:I13128
0.0345957672.40% ITA_Sicily_Himera_409BCE:I7223 + 27.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951
0.0348648885.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7221 + 14.40% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_4:I10944
0.0351567684.40% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I10952 + 15.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_4:I10944
0.0363362685.20% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I10952 + 14.80% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_4:I10947
0.0370053237.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951 + 62.40% ITA_Sicily_IA:I13390
0.0372375374.00% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7217 + 26.00% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951
0.0377842587.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7221 + 12.40% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_4:I10947
0.0377903936.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951 + 63.40% ITA_Sicily_IA:I13384
0.0379265037.00% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951 + 63.00% ITA_Sicily_IA:I13391
0.0384322736.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951 + 63.40% ITA_Sicily_IA:I13379
0.0385303788.40% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7221 + 11.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_3:I10949
0.0386916939.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951 + 60.40% ITA_Sicily_IA:I13125
0.0397417784.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7221 + 15.40% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951
0.0398144073.40% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I10948 + 26.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951
0.0402527590.20% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7221 + 9.80% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_3:I10943
0.0402560076.40% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7221 + 23.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_2:I10946
0.0402719836.20% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951 + 63.80% ITA_Sicily_IA:I13382
0.0403848836.60% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951 + 63.40% ITA_Sicily_IA:I13389
0.0404888581.20% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7217 + 18.80% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_4:I10944
0.0409176879.00% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I10945 + 21.00% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951
0.0411098340.20% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951 + 59.80% ITA_Sicily_IA:I13394
0.0415220139.40% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5:I10951 + 60.60% ITA_Sicily_IA:I13392
0.0421195589.00% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I10952 + 11.00% ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_3:I10949
Target: AJF
Distance: 0.0273% / 0.02730348
60.0ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1
19.0ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_5
15.6ITA_Sicily_IA
5.4ITA_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_4
Click to expand...


It is a dogma that southern Italians allegedly are the only exception in Europe insofar they have, according to them, very little ancestry from the previous millennia, no matter what actual science and evidence say, because they take only G25 earnestly as if it were gospel.
It's true that southern Italians aren't identical to any ancient pop, but they are darn close, and not only on a 2D PCA but also by genetic distance and the affinity to ancient Greek/Mycenaean samples have been noticed again and again in the literature, thus so far the evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of significant continuity (which of course doesn't mean 100% continuity, so to say we claim 100% identity is a strawman), and the explanation that it is "just a coincidence" because south Italy's previous inhabitants got "replaced by east meds", who then mixed with Germanic invaders, is really an explanation that borders more on fantasy than history.

To be fair Hype's model was that south Italians are allegedly only 20-25% mixed with a caucasus-related pop compared to those Himera Greeks, though we must keep the record straight and recall that what Anthrogenica purports to have "discovered" is a replacement by "east meds" followed by another gene flow from north Europe or north Italy.

At this point nothing will change their mind.
 
Anthrogenica posters think that North Italians are a mix of east Med people largely descended from freed Anatolian slaves, pulled north by Langobards and Romanized Provincials fleeing from the Danube provinces in Late Antiquity and the Early Middle Ages!
 
^^I've said it more than once.

Show me documentary evidence of a large scale migration of Northerners into, in this particular case, Calabria. Also show me the appropriate levels of Northern Ydna lineages to make that feasible.

If you can't, then the hypothesis fails.

As for fleeing people from outposts of the empire, even if we ignore the fact that there is no documentary evidence of huge numbers of people making the dangerous journey back to Italia, the genomes of the people making that journey would NOT HAVE BEEN "Northern". All these intellectually challenged people would have to do is look at the samples from Szolad. You can clearly see the Lombard samples. A detailed examination of the remaining "Romans" shows many are extremely "Greek like" i.e. like some Imperial Romans, and some are Tuscan like.

A small group of these people would not change the genetic signature of the people then living in southern Italy, even if they were foolhardy enough to want to travel all the way down the boot to the toe instead of taking refuge in the north.

It's all complete stupidity.
 
Leopoldo Leone said:
It is a dogma that southern Italians allegedly are the only exception in Europe insofar they have, according to them, very little ancestry from the previous millennia, no matter what actual science and evidence say, because they take only G25 earnestly as if it were gospel.
It's true that southern Italians aren't identical to any ancient pop, but they are darn close, and not only on a 2D PCA but also by genetic distance and the affinity to ancient Greek/Mycenaean samples have been noticed again and again in the literature, thus so far the evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of significant continuity (which of course doesn't mean 100% continuity, so to say we claim 100% identity is a strawman), and the explanation that it is "just a coincidence" because south Italy's previous inhabitants got "replaced by east meds", who then mixed with Germanic invaders, is really an explanation that borders more on fantasy than history.

To be fair Hype's model was that south Italians are allegedly only 20-25% mixed with a caucasus-related pop compared to those Himera Greeks, though we must keep the record straight and recall that what Anthrogenica purports to have "discovered" is a replacement by "east meds" followed by another gene flow from north Europe or north Italy.

At this point nothing will change their mind.
Click to expand...

To keep the record straight, I have never said nor meant to imply that there was 100% continuity anywhere in Italy since the first millennium B.C.,but this nonsense about replacement and then this fairy tale of mass Northern migration to someplace like Calabria, in particular, is an absurdity.

He and the anthrogenica crowd love G25; well, I gave them a G25 analysis. He didn't think one sample should be used so I removed it.

The Caucasus sample doesn't make the top 25 matches. While some of the 2 way results do use it, others, with similar distances, do not.

Even results like these aren't good enough, neither for them nor for him, although in his case it's a function of a bias based on his own ethnicity.

They dishonestly do analyses using only the Sicani. He nitpicks anything he can so he can ignore the clear implications of the data.

He has a history here of trying in any way possible to deny Greek genetic influence in Southern Italy. Indeed, he tries to deny any continuity in Greece itself.

If someone wants to state that, fine, go ahead and look like a biased fool, but you don't get to lie about results.
 
Angela said:
Second of all what idiotic nonsense is this about 120166? Do you understand that this was the population of a Greek polis in Sicily? Of course they were Greeks! What should we expect? Poles???
Click to expand...

According to former TA admin Sikeliot/Tauromenion and similar folks ,yes thats what one
should expect when talking about the descendants of Greek settlers in South Italy.



The fact is that those people came as a folk migration, STAYED, and became ancestors of southern Italians. Do you understand that?
Click to expand...

Probably he will never understand.
If the talk would be about Slavic or Albanian settlements in Medieval Mainland Greece instead of Greek ones in Ancient South Italy, i'm sure, he would.

Your problem has always been, in post after post, that you don't want to acknowledge that the Greeks contributed a lot of ancestry to Southern Italians, and that you can't STAND the fact that the Greeks have an illustrious heritage, part of it forged in Southern Italy.

My husband's ancestry is all from areas immediately adjacent to Greek settlements, and some of his people spoke Greek until 200 years ago. In isolated parts of the world language and genes are conserved. Educate yourself: look at a map of Calabria; it's perfect for that scenario.
Click to expand...

It seems some people who post online never learned anything in high scool or college about
Classical Greek civilization and its expansions,colonies
 
Vallicanus said:
Anthrogenica posters think that North Italians are a mix of east Med people largely descended from freed Anatolian slaves, pulled north by Langobards and Romanized Provincials fleeing from the Danube provinces in Late Antiquity and the Early Middle Ages!
Click to expand...

I will not go into that statement but it is worth mentioning that Anthrogenica posters, despite acting the role of experts, have defended to the last the eastern origin of the Etruscans by harassing all those who thought otherwise, when the conclusion that they were 'autochthonous' was the one that enjoyed the greatest consensus among scholars for more than 30 years. Hence, near-zero credibility.

As for slaves, the equation migrants equals slaves is always made, but it is more complex. At some point, and rather early if one considers the chronology of the Roman imperial period, citizenship was granted to almost everyone in the Empire.
 
I had not yet compared my raw-data with these ancient 'Greek' ones

Distance to:Dodecadk12bStuvanè
6.30493458Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946
6.80074996Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10950
10.05484958Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc:I17870
14.96215894Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20163
15.09736401Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7223
16.05556601Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7224
17.38120249Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13376
18.68982343Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7218
18.78719777Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10952
18.92371792Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7217
19.09835071Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20166
19.56525492Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13391
19.57205150Baucina_MtFalcone_Sicani_Med_lc:I13128
19.83113965Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10945
20.07192567Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10948
20.29479983Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20168
20.53694232Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13392
20.74228290Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13379
20.77070774Baucina_MtFalcone_Sicani_Med:I13125
20.90003589Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7225
21.06369863Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13390
21.12534260Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc:I20162
21.13204439Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13387
21.26052916Polizzello_Sicani_Med:I13382
21.72169192Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17866

Target: Dodecadk12bStuvanè
Distance: 0.7475% / 0.74754303 | ADC: 0.25x RC

55.2Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc
18.9Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med
15.0Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med
10.9Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe

Target: Dodecadk12bStuvanè
Distance: 0.2939% / 0.29393394

35.1Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc
19.5Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med
16.4Polizzello_Sicani_Med
12.6Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe_lc
12.5Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med
3.4Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med_lc
0.5Himera_480_BC_Battle_Caucasus_lc

Distance to:Dodecadk12bStuvanè
2.2494478667.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10948 + 32.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe_lc:I10949
2.3867334731.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe_lc:I10949 + 69.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7218
2.4131011967.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc:I17870 + 32.60% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20168
2.4691643533.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe:I10943 + 66.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10948
2.5823494472.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc:I17870 + 27.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7221
2.6833222531.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe:I10943 + 68.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7218
2.8516854931.00% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17866 + 69.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc:I17870
2.9068657133.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10945 + 67.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc:I17870
3.0072327777.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946 + 22.80% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20166
3.3522409731.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe_lc:I10949 + 68.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7217
3.4512746733.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10952 + 66.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc:I17870
3.5363884170.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc:I17870 + 30.00% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884
3.5841134766.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc:I17870 + 33.40% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20166
3.5951469870.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc:I17870 + 29.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7219
3.6040996266.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc:I17870 + 33.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7217
3.6101890031.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe:I10943 + 68.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7217
3.8157608227.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe_lc:I10949 + 72.40% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7224
3.9755495128.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe:I10943 + 72.00% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7224
4.2972832381.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946 + 18.80% Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20168
4.3341995131.60% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10948 + 68.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc:I17870
4.3840851463.00% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc:I17870 + 37.00% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I7224
4.3912611482.40% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946 + 17.60% Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17866
4.4172370833.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_NE-Europe:I10943 + 66.20% Baucina_MtFalcone_Sicani_Med:I13125
4.4415205866.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_W-Europe_lc:I17870 + 33.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7218
4.5259817785.20% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Balkans_Cent-Europe:I10946 + 14.80% Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I7221
 
Jovialis said:
Giorgia Meloni is half Sicilian and half Sardinian. She would probably cluster with the Sicani or a Himera 409 BCE sample on a PCA.
Click to expand...

Sicani were still pretty close to the sicilian bell beaker, right?
 
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