Modeling Albanians as Thracian based, extremly good fit, looking for feedback

i also wasted some time on this things and .... it can become addictive, so no more (for 2022 at least)
 
i am courious, what do you think is the thracian component in Bulgaria? i would go for more than 50%


Everything is pointing to the so called Bessi culture horizon. An actual people in late Roman rule, having their own culture horizon while everyone else because a Roman or Greek speaking Roman citizen.

FLt3UpwX0AQf5hG



https://twitter.com/albhistory/status/1493924230337118208


For me, it's impossible to brush this off. Because for a population to survive the Slavic invasion, you need a population that has a tribal structure and some form of military organization to resist them. Not some soyboys speaking Roman(not even knowing their own ancestral language) with no military structure of their own, highly dependent on imperial troops for protection.

Also, the E-V13 and R1b-Z2103 argument, the vahauduo readings, the strange toponyms in western Bulgaria (Spatovo, Mazarachevo, Musachevo, Mataraz, Burrel valley, Lyanlintsi) which have correspondence to early Albanian tribes: Shpata, Mazareku, Muzaka, Mataranga, Lala....

Johane has made his linguistic arguments. I am person that hates mental gymnastics, if you have to do mental gymnastics to explain Illyrian, it's a dead end theory because all you are really doing is making excuses, why this and that do not add up. Vs looking for direct links, and simply accepting them as yes or no.
 
The Bessi were a Thracian people have nothing to do with Albanians, linguistically or genetically. There are countless studies which have rejected any such idea. The Bessi had become Greek-speaking and many were living in Dobrudja, Romania in late antiquity. Of course, they were part of the Roman Empire and served as soldiers and sailors. They were not an isolated people. Paleo-Revenge really has 0 knowledge about what he's writing and is just making up stuff on the go.

The notion of medieval Vlach, Turkish and Albanian toponyms in Bulgaria seems to be completely ignored by this person. Just for Mazarachevo:

There are two explanations for the name of the village. According to one, it originates from the Turkish words "mezar" (grave) and "agaç" (tree), i.e. "tree where there is a grave", according to the other - from the Romanian loanword "mazara" (pea, chickpea), i.e. a place where peas, chickpeas are grown.

Spatovo is another derivation from Greek spathi or Latin spatha and it has nothing to do with Albanian. If it was taken from Albanian it would have been shpatovo. This person is so out of touch with all reality that he doesn't understand even fundamental ideas about the Albanian language.

For those who don't know: Paleo-Revenge is not an ethnic Albanian and has nothing to do with Albanians. This person is here to spread just one specific propaganda:

unknown.png
 
Albanians obviously have significant non-Illyrian ancestry associated with E-V13. Percentages are up for discussion.

However, those, models are obviously subjective and not very meaningful.


I took all the Roman Croatia samples and Roman Serbia, irrespective if they had Germanic, Celtic or full blown MENA. I averaged them all as one giant soup, to test it as a pan-Balkan model. My argument, the locals got mixed with everything that was present and walking on two legs. So why not test it out.

nBdqkEp.png

0K07BMr.png

6uFr9sv.png

MYvsNs4.png

uwvglHi.png

LvOnuvc.png



This is my take,

1) Balkan Slav paleo-Balkan component did not come from pure Balkan IA genetics, but from MENA shifted locals.
2) Albanian G25 average really wants a pure Balkan IA component, this makes sense since Albanian survived Romanization, and it could not have done so linguistically by not surviving genetically. The best yielding(fit) model is Thracian. The Slavic component is also very realistic with the Thracian model, and straight up laughable with any other Balkan IA as a parent population.
3) Border was right to assign autosomal clusters with haplogroup association. Because MKD SE really seems to be MKD cosmopolitan genetics and not MKD tribal genetics.
 
Last edited:
Albanians obviously have significant non-Illyrian ancestry associated with E-V13. Percentages are up for discussion.
However, those, models are obviously subjective and not very meaningful.

The paper's authors clearly pointed out that Albanian's autosomal DNA has changed very little since MBA. If you want to delude yourself go ahead.

The only 2 noticeable inputs are Roman Imperial East Med and Slavic. There's no other autosomal signatures in modern Albanians.

Alb_Cinamak -> Alb_Medival = Extra East Med

Alb_Medieval -> Modern Albanian = Extra Slavic
 
i never went into Anthroogenica, already this one is quite enough.
i am gegh (miredite & shkoder) from my paternal side and tosk (libohove & leskovik) from my maternal side. i generally plot like east shifted tuscan. thessalia and bulgaria are next closest. from ancient ones i do have good traits with ancient albanian, i think i threw the wahadoo results somewhere in the southern arc thread. my closest though is some goth or longobard Slozad37 from the Amorim paper ������.
i clearly do think we do have thracian DNA and also Illyrian, and some Slavic too. the exact proportions are not easy to grasp or prove. honestly Croatia, MNE IA and C.Andreevo are not so far genetically, especially if you consider their variability. statistically speaking you can fit albanians with 20 combinations each having an acceptable probability. we cannot choose one of those because they are all valid. some cultural, historical, linguistical info will be neccessary to separate the various solutions.
was reading about the female illyrian tatoos, they were reported in Albania as late as the 20century.
i am courious, what do you think is the thracian component in Bulgaria? i would go for more than 50%

Andreevo samples are not close at all nor is there any evidence of any kind of Thracian input from Bulgaria. I am not sure in what planet you people are living in. Forget about Thracians from Bulgaria. The OP is nothing but a pseudo intellectual and a troll ignoring every counter argument someone makes against him. Put samples from Nish / Dardania, Macedonia, Albania, etc and every Albanian will score these first before Andreevo. This has already been done and demonstrated. Even EV-13 sample in Nish is a bit different from those Thracians and still more north than them despite it clusters very south.
 
We are talking about samples here from Iron Age Bulgaria that score below 20% Steppe and over 70% ANF which not even the most southern Albanians don't score that low. Certainly not much that suggests these people had much impact on Albanians. We got other samples in Macedonia, Albania etc both north and south that fit Albanian profile better.
 
We are talking about samples here from Iron Age Bulgaria that score below 20% Steppe and over 70% ANF which not even the most southern Albanians don't score that low. Certainly not much that suggests these people had much impact on Albanians. We got other samples in Macedonia, Albania etc both north and south that fit Albanian profile better.

OP is clearly a troll desperate for attention. He's trying to mix 5-6 random southern/eastern European groups to make Albanians "Thracian" :LOL:
 
Who is OP? just so i know....
I would not be convinced by admixtures so much, you can have many degenerate solutions.
Would b3 nice to get some F3 and F4 statstics. does anyone know if they have been performed for the populations in question.
 
Who is OP? just so i know....
I would not be convinced by admixtures so much, you can have many degenerate solutions.
Would b3 nice to get some F3 and F4 statstics. does anyone know if they have been performed for the populations in question.

Yes many degenerate solutions where not a single time Thracian Iron Age from Bulgaria comes up because most of the time they are simply too far away as shown by calculators. Unless you use Bronze Age samples from Bulgaria which overlap with Bronze Age / Iron Age Western Balkans. Depends also what PCA Map you use, weather you add them raw or scaled which makes differences, that's why it's important to look at calculator distance too. Some of these Thracians can maybe be used for an eastern pull but this idea that Albanians came from Thracians from Bulgaria rests on some incompetent dude called ''Schramm'' that spread this theory. It is based on no compelling evidence.


OP = Original Poster
 
OP is clearly a troll desperate for attention. He's trying to mix 5-6 random southern/eastern European groups to make Albanians "Thracian" :LOL:

The calc will make Albanians Thracians using only two variables. This stuff is simply too much for you.

jr7BNyi.png



If I needed attention, I would have created 10 sock accounts and talk to myself, praise myself, debate myself, like a true absolute loser. For those reading, this imbecile is on the commission board of the Alb DNA team, this is one of characters behind those phony G25s.
 

This thread has been viewed 7977 times.

Back
Top