Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: 'Inbreeding' in Greek ancestors?

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    23-05-21
    Posts
    373


    Ethnic group
    southern EUROPEAN
    Country: Spain



    'Inbreeding' in Greek ancestors?

    There's a new massive study on Prehistoric Europe and Anatolian samples, I'll comment on it later in other thread.
    https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S...showall%3Dtrue

    But the first thing that struck me while reading it was this

    IMG_20221116_193459.jpg

    You can see that there are 3 Aegean Basin samples(in purple), 2 of them show a strong affinity with the modern Greek/Albanian and Cretan populations.

    First, there's this big cluster of Early European Farmers(EEF) that seem to cluster just with themselves and with Sardinians to some extent.
    And then there are this 2 samples, with other 1, the only few among many samples that resemble modern peoples.


    But if you look to the right, you can see that there it says that those samples are very HOMOZYGOSITIC.
    This people have a very low genetic diversity, and yet they resemble modern populations the most.

    The thing is that modern European populations are a 3-way admixture, Greeks are overwhelmingly EEF but still...

    As it is obvious this relatedness to a modern ethnicity/people doesn't stem from admixture with Yamnaya incomers...


    The only explanation we're left with, is that these SAMPLES were PART of TRIBES that are the GENESIS of the bulk of MODERN ANCESTRY, or at least closely related.

    And that these 'tribes' 'suffered' from an intense genetic drift and lack of efective genetic diversity, comparatively with European Hunter-gatherers... (which is crazy)

    Think about it, this ""inbred"" populations are the closest to modern Greeks.
    This strongly suggests that EEF ancestry is also the product of a few ancestors with high reproductive success.

  2. #2
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    21,694


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    2 members found this post helpful.
    This is not new; it was published in May, and posted here at that time.

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...pe%27s+farmers

    Also, European Hunter-Gatherers were even more inbred.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    12-11-19
    Posts
    525


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    what I don't understand in this study is that they claim SW Asian HG and European HG have common ancestors, while Laziridis has shown that Dzudzuana ancestry was spread all over SW Asia, while European HG had nione

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    23-05-21
    Posts
    373


    Ethnic group
    southern EUROPEAN
    Country: Spain



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    This is not new; it was published in May, and posted here at that time.

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...pe%27s+farmers

    Also, European Hunter-Gatherers were even more inbred.
    Ok, thanks. Then I don't need to post a commentary on the whole study(I just accesed to it today)

    Anyway, I leave this finding relating these 2 samples close to Greeks.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    23-05-21
    Posts
    373


    Ethnic group
    southern EUROPEAN
    Country: Spain



    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur 2 View Post
    what I don't understand in this study is that they claim SW Asian HG and European HG have common ancestors, while Laziridis has shown that Dzudzuana ancestry was spread all over SW Asia, while European HG had nione
    I'm reading that study, and what it says is that WHG is RELATED with the Dzudzuana people. Not that they have their ancestry.

    In fact, the new study says that Europeans and Near Easteners diverged 25,600 ya, which coincides in time with the Dzudzuana samples dating. It's very likely that WHG are related to Dzudzuana through common origins.


    While they're more related to EEF Anatolians than CHG(Dzudzuana are Caucasians...).

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    12-11-19
    Posts
    525


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Mmiikkii View Post
    I'm reading that study, and what it says is that WHG is RELATED with the Dzudzuana people. Not that they have their ancestry.
    In fact, the new study says that Europeans and Near Easteners diverged 25,600 ya, which coincides in time with the Dzudzuana samples dating. It's very likely that WHG are related to Dzudzuana through common origins.
    While they're more related to EEF Anatolians than CHG(Dzudzuana are Caucasians...).

    tree.jpg

    Dzudzuana = 72 % common west eurasian + 28 % basal eurasian.

    Villabruna is common west eurasian, lacking the basal eurasian.

    But common west eurasian should be at least as old as the Vestonice Gravettian, which is 33.000 ya.

    And Dzudzuna did not split from common west eurasian, it is common west eurasian with added basal eurasian, that is not the same IMO.

    Then again, EP Anatolian (Pinarbasi 15,5 ka) is Levantine mixed with WHG (Villabruna, more specific Iron Gates WHG), while Levantine is roughly Dzuadzuana with ancestral north african.

    It seems to me that the models in this study are to simplified because they don't consider admixture from outside SW Asia and Europe.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    23-05-21
    Posts
    373


    Ethnic group
    southern EUROPEAN
    Country: Spain



    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...644#post661644

    I moved this post to its own thread, since it's not the topic proper of this thread, which is Mediterraneans coming from homozygotic and small effective populations.
    Last edited by Mmiikkii; 17-11-22 at 01:40.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    23-05-21
    Posts
    373


    Ethnic group
    southern EUROPEAN
    Country: Spain



    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur 2 View Post
    tree.jpg
    Dzudzuana = 72 % common west eurasian + 28 % basal eurasian.
    Villabruna is common west eurasian, lacking the basal eurasian.
    But common west eurasian should be at least as old as the Vestonice Gravettian, which is 33.000 ya.
    And Dzudzuna did not split from common west eurasian, it is common west eurasian with added basal eurasian, that is not the same IMO.
    Then again, EP Anatolian (Pinarbasi 15,5 ka) is Levantine mixed with WHG (Villabruna, more specific Iron Gates WHG), while Levantine is roughly Dzuadzuana with ancestral north african.
    It seems to me that the models in this study are to simplified because they don't consider admixture from outside SW Asia and Europe.
    I don't see where you're trying to get. Doesn't matter that Vestonice is 33ka old and that Villabruna/Balkan HG diverged from CHG 25.6 ka.

    Regarding Penarbasi, in this new 2022 study is said that other studies have used other admixture models, that's why Anatolian HG looks WHG/Levantine.

    Or... They also say there are evidence of direct Levant/Greece mixing through a coastal route, rather than inland.

Similar Threads

  1. Too much inbreeding among the Amish?
    By Angela in forum Life Sciences
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 22-01-20, 18:49
  2. Extreme Inbreeding in the UK Biobank
    By Angela in forum Medical & Psychological Genetics
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 06-12-19, 02:38
  3. Inbreeding among Neanderthals
    By Angela in forum Archeology & Prehistory
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 15-09-19, 19:19
  4. Inbreeding among Neanderthals
    By Angela in forum Paleogenetics
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 28-02-19, 20:10
  5. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 20-12-17, 15:44

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •