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Thread: Steppe hypothesis is outdated? Past aDNA papers do not support it?

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    Steppe hypothesis is outdated? Past aDNA papers do not support it?

    https://www.science.org/do/10.1126/f...c9dea5bd/full/

    Past aDNA papers do not support multiple “massive migrations from the steppe”, but only one.

    Prospects for solving the Indo‑European enigma are brighter now, free from the outdated preconception that the Steppe must have been its earliest, original source.

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    This seems to be a comment on the Southern Arc paper, supporting their findings.

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    it is not because Anatolian didn't originate on or near the steppe that all other known IE languages didn't originate there

    and I don't believe these languages originated in Yamnaya

    Yamnaya was just another IE branch that is now extinct (except for Tocharian)

    we should rather look in the periphery of Yamna

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    Journal of Indo-European Studies, vol. 47 (3-4), pp.293-380: https://www.academia.edu/41077803/Pr...s_The_Prologue

    On the other hand, the analysis of reconstructed PIE terms for topographical features and related attributes and beliefs suggests that at some stage of their history, the Indo-Hittites lived in a mountainous terrain, where the mountain was a “mighty cliff reaching to the sky”, and there were precipices,swift rivers and a sea or large lake nearby (Gamkrelidze, Ivanov 1995: 574–577; Dybo 2013), excluding the steppe as a possible homeland (see 2.2).
    Provided that all these geographic features must be found in broadly the same area, this leaves us, in essence, with two possibilities. We must discard the southern Urals, where the most salient mountain, Yamantau, 1640 m high, is situated 900 km north of the Caspian Sea. One of the remaining options is the area with three large lakes, Sevan, Van, and Urmia, two of which are saline and thus similar to seas, and Mount Ararat, 5137 m high, towering 120 km southwest of Lake Sevan (freshwater) and at about the same distance northeast of Lake Van (saline). But an even better option is northern Iran, where the majestic dome of Damavand, 5610 m high — the second highest dormant volcano in Asia — can be viewed directly from the Caspian shore,30 and tumultuous rivers, most notably Safidrud, break through the Elburz range. It appears likely, then, that the Indo-Hittites migrated to the southern Caucasus and further west along the Elburz and Zagros ranges by the route that, several millennia later, was known as the Great Khorasan Road (Majidzaeh 1982; Ivanova 2012; 2013: 121–129).


    More about Damavand, the highest peak in Iran: https://cheetah-adventures.com/mount...and-elevation/

    Mount Damavand was first mentioned in documents as Bikni in 744 B.C during Assyrian times.
    Compare Bikni/Pigni to Galdhøpiggen, the highest peak in Norway and ancient Greek págos "peak" from Proto-Indo-European *peh₂ǵ-. Damavand is also the highest volcano in Volkana (Old Persian Varkana/Hyrcania).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moja View Post
    Journal of Indo-European Studies, vol. 47 (3-4), pp.293-380: https://www.academia.edu/41077803/Pr...s_The_Prologue





    More about Damavand, the highest peak in Iran: https://cheetah-adventures.com/mount...and-elevation/



    Compare Bikni/Pigni to Galdhøpiggen, the highest peak in Norway and ancient Greek págos "peak" from Proto-Indo-European *peh₂ǵ-. Damavand is also the highest volcano in Volkana (Old Persian Varkana/Hyrcania).
    and what about the Caucasus Mts?

    what is volcano in Anatolian?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur 2 View Post
    and what about the Caucasus Mts?

    what is volcano in Anatolian?
    I don't know why Kozintsev didn't mention Elbrus in the Caucasus Mountains, he says "the neighbors of PIEs were not Kartvelians or North Caucasians", probably for this reason he has ignored Mount Elbrus in the north of Caucasus.

    I don't know about volcano in Anatolian but in Ossetian mythology there is Wærgon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdal%C3%A6gon As you read "The linguist Vasily Abaev compares it to the name of the Roman god Vulcan." From Proto-IE *wl̩kānos "god of fire and volcanoes".

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    From Proto-IE *wl̩kānos "god of fire and volcanoes" - Very good point. Last eruption of the Damavand was in 5350 BC ± 200 years, more or less when the CHG-IRAN populations also invaded/moved to the Steppe.
    Almost all ancient toponyms in the north of Iran have Proto-Indo-European origins, for example the highest mountain in Gilan is Somamoos from Proto-Indo-European *súm̥mos "highest, summit". Kūh-e Kūchak Sowmūmowz _ summit = sumo + cume + cimeira (Brazilian Portuguese)
    Persian : Kūh-e Somāmūs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
    From Proto-IE *wl̩kānos "god of fire and volcanoes" - Very good point. Last eruption of the Damavand was in 5350 BC ± 200 years, more or less when the CHG-IRAN populations also invaded/moved to the Steppe.
    Did they have sky god concept before invading? I think Hittites ancestor moved to mighty cliff area to in order to be close to sky. Thus sky god was born over there and appeared even in yamna burial like this shape:

    Ancient chinese script of sky(tian) on oracle bone:

    Kozintsev's opinion on 2020:
    "Unlike the previously outlined Scenario 1, which placed the IE,
    Uralic and Indo-Uralic homelands in the area east of the Caspian
    Sea, not far from the presumed common Eurasiatic homeland,
    Scenario 2 locates the latter in a much more easterly area
    between Lake Balkhash and the Altai. With regard to proto-IE,
    Scenario 2 is an extension of Scenario 1 back in time and space,
    adding a very long initial stretch of the westward expansion of
    Indo-Hittite across most of western Central Asia"

    - Thus Okunevo has sun head and snake(thunderbolt) concept:




    - Thus Zeus in South america:


    "The vajra in South American cultures

    In the new world we encounter a similar deadly lightning weapon used by the sky gods. In the Aztec culture there is the god Huitzilopochtli. Huitzilopochtli, with his weapon Xiuhcoatl, “ the fire serpent ”, killed his sister Coyolxauhqui soon after he was born. The Mayan rain deity Chaac and the later Aztec Tlaloc are both depicted carrying their lightning axe (Figure 6.). Sometimes they are depicted holding snakes, which represent lightning bolts, which they would hurl from the mountaintops where they made their retreat. In Peru, we find the god Illapa who is described as a man wielding a club in his left hand and a sling in his right."

    I personally think this PIE culture originated in ANE(malta boy), sun spiral/ snake culture:

    Plate with a hole in the centre.

    Mammoth tusk; carved, polished and engraved. 138 x 81 mm.
    Mal'ta Site (excavations by M.M. Gerasimov, 1928-1930), Siberia, the River Belaya, near Irkutsk, Russia
    Maltinsko-buretskaya Culture. 23 000 - 19 000 BP.

    On one side of the plate we can see three snakes. The snake is rare in northern hemisphere Paleolithic art, presumably because the cold conditions precluded a wide distribution of snakes. In addition, it can be seen that the snakes have very broad heads, as though they belong to the Cobra group - yet Cobras are now known only in southern asian localities.

    https://donsmaps.com/malta.html


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