Genetic shift in Crete linked to the Mycenaean conquest

K15-V4-Balkan-Samples-Cropped.png

I'm not familiar with how PCA are made, so I don't understant the variations we often get from one to another. Pax tried to explained it to me in another thread, but I couldn't completely grasp it, so be patient if my questions seem somewhat stupid. Anyway, that's the PCA I was referring to, in wich Crete Armenoi perfeclty fall within a central italian cluster. In any case, it's not a big deal.

On a side note, It would be interesting to see the PCA from post n.15 with the iron age greek samples from Himera and contemporary sicilian samples.
 
^^that PCA is made with K13 (or 15 I forget) in MSpaint. Unfortunately that's not a true PCA because the projection is supposed to move with new variations made to the overall PCA. However that one stays in a fixed position.
 
First of all, the Greek sources roughly say there were 2 'native' populations, the Eteocretans and the Kudonians, some Greek or Greek-related populations that came later from the Greek mainland: the Achaeans, the Dorians and the Pelasgians and in some sources another 'barbarian' population that came after the Greeks.

He talks about a genetic change after 1600 BC. The impression someone gets is that it affected the whole island but mainland shifting samples are only from the north, around Chania where Kudonians are usually placed (so in a region where the population could have been non-'Minoan' proper early on and from around Heraklion. (There the more northern settlers could really have been Greek-proper)
 
A. Papadimitriou said:
First of all, the Greek sources roughly say there were 2 'native' populations, the Eteocretans and the Kudonians, some Greek or Greek-related populations that came later from the Greek mainland: the Achaeans, the Dorians and the Pelasgians and in some sources another 'barbarian' population that came after the Greeks.

He talks about a genetic change after 1600 BC. The impression someone gets is that it affected the whole island but mainland shifting samples are only from the north, around Chania where Kudonians are usually placed (so in a region where the population could have been non-'Minoan' proper early on and from around Heraklion. (There the more northern settlers could really have been Greek-proper)
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you also have the cretans that escaped Mycenean invasion and occupation became the philistines in the levant

https://greekreporter.com/2022/05/18/philistines-greek/
 
torzio said:
https://mosesegyptianised.wordpress.com/2020/01/20/crete-the-philistines-and-the-biblical-exodus/
Click to expand...

This text is a little incoherent. Either way, the terms Caphtor and Keftiu have no obvious connection to Crete. They seem more similar, superficially at least to the toponym Cappadocia.

I see in Wikipedia the following though (It has a reference but I cannot check it now):
The stone base of a statue during the reign of Amenhotep III includes the name kftı͗w in a list of Mediterranean ship stops prior to several Cretan cities such as Kydonia, Phaistos, and Amnisos, showing that the term clearly refers to the Aegean.
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Now a question can be if some of the populations of Crete were using as an ethnic name a variant of the ethnonym Cappadocian, which is something not impossible but currently unprovable.

One of the native populations at least, possibly those we call 'Minoans' after Evans or a subset of them, should have been using a variant of the term Cretan which has no obvious connection to Caphtor. And of course no connection to the term Philistia.
 
torzio said:
you also have the cretans that escaped Mycenean invasion and occupation became the philistines in the levant

https://greekreporter.com/2022/05/18/philistines-greek/
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Sorry, Torzio, but I don't see where you find the quasi certainty that Phillistins came from Creta. They had even more chances to be come from Inland Greece, and to be an I-E people (maybe kind of meta-Italic speaking one, but it's debatable yet).
 
MOESAN said:
Sorry, Torzio, but I don't see where you find the quasi certainty that Phillistins came from Creta. They had even more chances to be come from Inland Greece, and to be an I-E people (maybe kind of meta-Italic speaking one, but it's debatable yet).
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http://bristolgreeks.com/index.php/...y/item/362-were-the-philistines-cretan-minoas

https://greekreporter.com/2022/05/18/philistines-greek/

https://www.hellenicdailynewsny.com...of-greek-origin-according-to-new-dna-evidence

https://www.sots.ac.uk/wiki/philistines/

https://www.academia.edu/40680967/Philistines_of_Crete

https://pursiful.com/2007/03/17/philistines-cypriots-and-minoans/

https://www.patternsofevidence.com/2019/07/20/philistine-dna-study-supports-bible/
New Results from Ashkelon Graves Match Biblical Claims for Philistine Origins

A significant new study of Philistine DNA from the ancient city of Ashkelon indicates the place of origin for an influx of newcomers in biblical times. The results show that a wave of Philistines in the transitional period between the Bronze and Iron Ages most likely came from the island of Crete, matching claims in the Bible.
 
torzio said:
http://bristolgreeks.com/index.php/...y/item/362-were-the-philistines-cretan-minoas

https://greekreporter.com/2022/05/18/philistines-greek/

https://www.hellenicdailynewsny.com...of-greek-origin-according-to-new-dna-evidence

https://www.sots.ac.uk/wiki/philistines/

https://www.academia.edu/40680967/Philistines_of_Crete

https://pursiful.com/2007/03/17/philistines-cypriots-and-minoans/

https://www.patternsofevidence.com/2019/07/20/philistine-dna-study-supports-bible/
New Results from Ashkelon Graves Match Biblical Claims for Philistine Origins

A significant new study of Philistine DNA from the ancient city of Ashkelon indicates the place of origin for an influx of newcomers in biblical times. The results show that a wave of Philistines in the transitional period between the Bronze and Iron Ages most likely came from the island of Crete, matching claims in the Bible.
Click to expand...

Thanks or communication, Torzio.*But what I read didn't convince me too much. Some authors don't seem too serious to me, relying too much on Bible story or things like that. Other studies speak of southern Europe DNA, without precision (from Spain to Creta);.The pottery isn't in itself a sufficient argument. Phillistins could have occupied parts of Creta on their way to Near-East from Greece and .
 
... and made trade of this pottery? I'm not sure of anything here, but I'm just not convinced for now.
&: It seems Phillistins were the Peleset of ancient Egyptiains who put them among the 'Sea People' like others sea plunderers.
 
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