Crime Crime maps of Europe

[traveller]

Going back to my original post, this doesn't happen in mafia run neighborhoods. Ironically, this was the original purpose of the mafia. Which was to act as a vigilantante police force, because foreign-occupiers didn't care to protect the people it ruled over, and also abused them.

One hears much more about such crazy people in the US than in Europe. I wonder if that’s a sign that universal healthcare would be able to help even extremely disadvantaged people and in the US they are just left to cope… which they cannot.

Now thinking how a criminal/vigilante organization deals with such people. I would guess this is through intimidation, beating up people they don’t like, maybe lynching or killing and dumping someone? Driving a car over a homeless person in a neighbourhood where everyone is “blind”? Likewise with anyone they don’t like for some reason, as thugs like the power they have and they must be sure everybody knows what the consequences are when they don’t behave?

I hope I’m exagerrating here.

 

[Jovialis]

Mayor Adams wants to compel these people to be taken into mental health facilities. But some civil rights groups are trying to stop him. I think it is a good first step towards fixing the issue. Many of these crimes are committed by homeless insane people. But another portion are petty street gangs. Frankly, I think the NYPD needs to bring back stop and frisk, and plain clothes police.

 

[firetown]

One hears much more about such crazy people in the US than in Europe. I wonder if that’s a sign that universal healthcare would be able to help even extremely disadvantaged people and in the US they are just left to cope… which they cannot.

Now thinking how a criminal/vigilante organization deals with such people. I would guess this is through intimidation, beating up people they don’t like, maybe lynching or killing and dumping someone? Driving a car over a homeless person in a neighbourhood where everyone is “blind”? Likewise with anyone they don’t like for some reason, as thugs like the power they have and they must be sure everybody knows what the consequences are when they don’t behave?

I hope I’m exagerrating here.

My question to you would be what would scare and stop those criminals. Obviously, the law doesn't.

 

[traveller]

My question to you would be what would scare and stop those criminals. Obviously, the law doesn't.

Law enforcement and systematic rooting out of criminal behaviour. Going after the leaders and also making sure there is a program of rehabilitation and job creation. Activities for young people like ball courts, local competitions etc. With security cameras getting ever cheaper and more powerful, it should be possible to cover hotspots so that the responsible people can be identified. Of course, any group of hooded people is not a gang so there is a fine line between police harrassment and providing public security. Training of the police force is important here. A friend that works in the security industry tells me that his eye will catch suspiciously acting people even when not working, so he has ended up dealing with shoplifters while shopping himself.

Street gangs are a clear public safety issue and a job market for any other criminal activity.

I have heard New York was in a bad shape in the 1970s/80s and then was able to turn the tables, making jobs and people return. Perhaps that was just about Manhattan, but at least it shows that change can happen.

 

[traveller]

See here on something that appears to have worked:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_Reduction_Unit

and some situation description on Glasgow at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_in_the_United_Kingdom#Glasgow

 

[MOESAN]

The Left created the word "Woke" as a way to repackage the same failed old garbage ideas they've always had. Also used by corporations as lip-service for clueless white liberals and ethno-nationalistic racial minorities. The Woke America thread has a lot of news links demonstrating this.

Merry Christmas

I 've the subtle but tenacious feeling you don't like too much what you call 'the left' (where you seem putting a lot of concepts and people not always of the same kind, IMO) ...

Late but sincere merry Christmas for all ATW, hoping that 2023 will bring us the light.

 

[Jovialis]

I 've the subtle but tenacious feeling you don't like too much what you call 'the left' (where you seem putting a lot of concepts and people not always of the same kind, IMO) ...
Late but sincere merry Christmas for all ATW, hoping that 2023 will bring us the light.

Frankly, when it comes to economic policy, I think left-wing ideas are tolerable. I even have some left-wing leanings on some aspects of it. Unbridled capitalism with no regard for how it affects society is far from ideal in my opinion. We need certain safety nets to keep civilization going. But when it comes to radical left-wing ideas regarding gender, race, immigration, I am completely against it.

Originally, the left did not engage in such matters. In fact, some communists like Castro believed homosexuality was a result of the decadence of capitalism.

 

[firetown]

See here on something that appears to have worked:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_Reduction_Unit

and some situation description on Glasgow at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_in_the_United_Kingdom#Glasgow

Has this worked anywhere other than in Scotland?

 

[traveller]

Has this worked anywhere other than in Scotland?

Apparently the Glasgow work was built on success in Boston and Cincinnati.

There is a bunch of case studies at https://popcenter.asu.edu/content/pop-projects

See also the awards collections linked from there.

 

[Angela]

In other words the police are now trying to do what families and communities used to do.

Maybe the old-fashioned approach to many of our modern society's ills might just be a loving mother and father living together, having dinner with their family, teaching their children so called antiquated values, and having the neighbors around promoting the same world view and keeping an eye on all the children in the community. Oh, it would help if the children weren't born already damaged from the drug and alcohol abuse of both parents.

 

[Jovialis]

I was thinking more about the topic of organized crime. Japan, which is a wealthy and educated country, with low-crime has one of the most powerful mafia-like organizations in the world; the Yakuza. It kind of flies in face of conjecture as to why groups like this exist in other places. imo

I think a lot of it has to do with a culture of personal honor, masculinity, and glorification of violence, in addition to seeking fortune by unscrupulous means.

 

[Jovialis]

I was thinking more about the topic of organized crime. Japan, which is a wealthy and educated country, with low-crime has one of the most powerful mafia-like organizations in the world; the Yakuza. It kind of flies in face of conjecture as to why groups like this exist in other places. imo

I think a lot of it has to do with a culture of personal honor, masculinity, and glorification of violence, in addition to seeking fortune by unscrupulous means.

Social values of masculinity and honor fuel contact with mafia-type groups

https://phys.org/news/2018-04-social-values-masculinity-honor-fuel.html

These values aren't just found in Southern Italian culture.

But what is the solution to the authors? That people become dis-honorable and effeminate? There's a lot of that going on in the younger generations around the Western world thanks to social-political trends. What a joke.

Perhaps, it goes like so:

Social values of masculinity and honor + lack of opportunities = Mafia-run society

Social values of masculinity and honor + abundance of opportunities = A traditional society

If these attitudes are channeled correctly, we could have the glory days of Western civilization. A strong country with high-trust in institutions, patriotism, strong family values, and reverence for cultural achievements, and beauty.

What does dis-honorable and effeminate social values + abundance of opportunities equal? Modern-day USA and UK?

 

[firetown]

In other words the police are now trying to do what families and communities used to do.

Maybe the old-fashioned approach to many of our modern society's ills might just be a loving mother and father living together, having dinner with their family, teaching their children so called antiquated values, and having the neighbors around promoting the same world view and keeping an eye on all the children in the community. Oh, it would help if the children weren't born already damaged from the drug and alcohol abuse of both parents.

I completely agree. Police needs to be just that... police.
Apparently, "It takes a village" has its origin in an African proverb talking about SHARING responsibility, not taking on responsibilities of parents too busy doing their own thing.
Some of those programs really appear like begging criminals not to commit crimes.
Taking away all fear of consequences is not a long-term solution. Maybe a cosmetic very-short-term one on paper, but all you really do is create a new generation even more dependent on their government rather than learning how to raise own families via examples set by parents held accountable.

 

[Jovialis]

Social values of masculinity and honor among specific groups, along with abundance of opportunity.

Income by European ethnicity in the USA. The decentralized style makes the US system closer to the state of nature, with less interference from artificially imposed limitations to upward mobility. Also some of these groups are very small and recently immigrated under different circumstances. They didn't work their way up from poverty:

Median Household etIncome by detailed ancestry [13][14]
Rank	Ancestry	Income (US$)
6	Basque	94,091
8	Latvian	89,697
9	Macedonian	87,803
13	Austrian	86,499
14	Russian	85,989
15	Lithuanian	85,812
19	Swiss	82,974
20	Slovene	82,728
21	Italian	82,106
22	Greek	82,036
24	Romanian	81,878
25	Ukrainian	81,603
26	Serbian	81,452
27	Croatian	80,683
28	Bulgarian	80,626
29	Slovak	80,388
30	Swedish	80,228
31	Czech	80,142
32	Norwegian	79,783
33	Scottish	79,544
34	Polish	79,503
35	Danish	79,500
36	Portuguese	79,050
37	Belgian	78,355
38	English	78,078
39	Welsh	77,949
40	Hungarian	77,611
41	Finnish	77,356
42	Armenian	77,110
45	Irish	76,036
46	French Canadian	75,949
48	German	75,583
52	Scotch-Irish	72,745
56	Albanian	72,043
58	Spanish	71,903
59	French	71,407
61	Dutch	70,872
64	Cajun	68,383
91	American	57,761
93	Pennsylvania Dutch	56,290
101	Appalachian	49,717

 

[Angela]

Social values of masculinity and honor among specific groups, along with abundance of opportunity.

Income by European ethnicity in the USA. The decentralized style makes the US system closer to the state of nature, with less interference from artificially imposed limitations to upward mobility. Also some of these groups are very small and recently immigrated under different circumstances. They didn't work their way up from poverty:

Median Household etIncome by detailed ancestry [13][14]
Rank	Ancestry	Income (US$)
6	Basque	94,091
8	Latvian	89,697
9	Macedonian	87,803
13	Austrian	86,499
14	Russian	85,989
15	Lithuanian	85,812
19	Swiss	82,974
20	Slovene	82,728
21	Italian	82,106
22	Greek	82,036
24	Romanian	81,878
25	Ukrainian	81,603
26	Serbian	81,452
27	Croatian	80,683
28	Bulgarian	80,626
29	Slovak	80,388
30	Swedish	80,228
31	Czech	80,142
32	Norwegian	79,783
33	Scottish	79,544
34	Polish	79,503
35	Danish	79,500
36	Portuguese	79,050
37	Belgian	78,355
38	English	78,078
39	Welsh	77,949
40	Hungarian	77,611
41	Finnish	77,356
42	Armenian	77,110
45	Irish	76,036
46	French Canadian	75,949
48	German	75,583
52	Scotch-Irish	72,745
56	Albanian	72,043
58	Spanish	71,903
59	French	71,407
61	Dutch	70,872
64	Cajun	68,383
91	American	57,761
93	Pennsylvania Dutch	56,290
101	Appalachian	49,717

Strange they didn't create an Ashkenazi ethnic group. If they had you would have seen most of those numbers for Latvians, Lithuanians and Russians migrate to the Ashkenazi category.

For two thousand years they had no country to fight for or protect them, and as a tiny minority in a Christian Europe, physical resistance meant annihilation, but they certainly know about social cohesiveness and how to organize and get what they want. People forget, but there was a Jewish Mafia very intertwined with the Italian one and an Irish one as well, but they never had the success of the Italian Mafia, for lots of reasons which really don't pertain to this topic.

The Italian Mafia was ultimately brought down starting with Robert F. Kennedy, who didn't investigate the Irish mob with which his father was affiliated, or the Jewish mob, but the Italian mob. The decay of the value of omerta' among Italian-American members, leading to snitches like Valachi and then the passing of the very probably unconstitutional RICO statues ultimately did them in. By the end what you had left were men like that joke and media hound Gotti and the rat snitch and predator on women Sammy Gravano. I mean, they're all depraved men doing terrible things like extortion, running prostitution rings etc. as well as institutionalizing gambling and trafficking drugs and doing deals with businesses, but the prior generation, the ones from Italy, had some gravitas and honor amongst themselves in that they didn't betray the organization, even if they regularly killed their own bosses to take over the organization. Psychopaths, a number of them, but they kept within certain limits.


Back to topic...apologies for the digression.

I'm sorry to disagree slightly with your premise, but I don't think violence is the determinative element. There are violent men and criminals in every society on earth. The thing is that if they come from cultures where people know how to organize one another in groups to achieve goals, there is some measure of intellect at least in the top men, and an ethic of hard work to achieve those goals, loyalty to the group, keeping your word within the group, then if they have to or want to turn to violent crime, they will master it.

Both the Italian Mafia and the Yakuza are examples, although the Italian Mafia in reality no longer really exists as it once did.

 

[Jovialis]

Strange they didn't create an Ashkenazi ethnic group. If they had you would have seen most of those numbers for Latvians, Lithuanians and Russians migrate to the Ashkenazi category.

For two thousand years they had no country to fight for or protect them, and as a tiny minority in a Christian Europe, physical resistance meant annihilation, but they certainly know about social cohesiveness and how to organize and get what they want. People forget, but there was a Jewish Mafia very intertwined with the Italian one and an Irish one as well, but they never had the success of the Italian Mafia, for lots of reasons which really don't pertain to this topic.

The Italian Mafia was ultimately brought down starting with Robert F. Kennedy, who didn't investigate the Irish mob with which his father was affiliated, or the Jewish mob, but the Italian mob. The decay of the value of omerta' among Italian-American members, leading to snitches like Valachi and then the passing of the very probably unconstitutional RICO statues ultimately did them in. By the end what you had left were men like that joke and media hound Gotti and the rat snitch and predator on women Sammy Gravano. I mean, they're all depraved men doing terrible things like extortion, running prostitution rings etc. as well as institutionalizing gambling and trafficking drugs and doing deals with businesses, but the prior generation, the ones from Italy, had some gravitas and honor amongst themselves in that they didn't betray the organization, even if they regularly killed their own bosses to take over the organization. Psychopaths, a number of them, but they kept within certain limits.


Back to topic...apologies for the digression.

I'm sorry to disagree slightly with your premise, but I don't think violence is the determinative element. There are violent men and criminals in every society on earth. The thing is that if they come from cultures where people know how to organize one another in groups to achieve goals, there is some measure of intellect at least in the top men, and an ethic of hard work to achieve those goals, loyalty to the group, keeping your word within the group, then if they have to or want to turn to violent crime, they will master it.

Both the Italian Mafia and the Yakuza are examples, although the Italian Mafia in reality no longer really exists as it once did.

I believe most of those groups you mentioned are indeed mostly comprised of Jews, including the Austrian-American group.

The Basque-American groups is extremely small, and probably represents well-to-do recent immigrants. Thus not really representative of the Basque in general. Only about 56,000 in the entire country, which is basically a small city. Spread out by state, they're virtually invisible.

I think I might have misspoke in regard to violence. Indeed, it is seen throughout the whole world. The ability to organize, instead of just thuggish behavior, is the key. Especially when it comes to being on the defensive to protect what is yours. Not all groups are able to do this on the same level.

 

[Jovialis]

Here are population numbers included with rank by income for European-Americans. Italian-Americans represent a true snapshot of a population in the upper tier, relative to the small numbers of Basque, Latvians, etc.

The Russian-American population, I would bet is substantially Jewish.

Median Household Income by detailed ancestry [13][14]
Rank	Ancestry	Income (US$)	Population Size
6	Basque	94,091	56,297
8	Latvian	89,697	85,723
9	Macedonian	87,803	69,636
13	Austrian	86,499	646,438
14	Russian	85,989	2,432,733
15	Lithuanian	85,812	632,169
19	Swiss	82,974	905,079
20	Slovene	82,728	179,165
21	Italian	82,106	15,767,630 (5,953,262 Italian-Alone)
22	Greek	82,036	1,265,177 - 3,000,000 approx.
24	Romanian	81,878	464,814
25	Ukrainian	81,603	1,017,586
26	Serbian	81,452	700,000 est.
27	Croatian	80,683	414-714 - 1.2 million est.
28	Bulgarian	80,626	250,000 (+30,000 students)
29	Slovak	80,388	790,000
30	Swedish	80,228	3,322, 477 (768,809 Swedish-Alone)
31	Czech	80,142	1,294,789
32	Norwegian	79,783	3,883,173 (1,230,354 Norwegian-Alone)
33	Scottish	79,544	20-25 million (1,618,674 Scottish Alone)
34	Polish	79,503	8,261,094 (2,791,200 Polish Alone)
35	Danish	79,500	1,215,809
36	Portuguese	79,050	1,371,153
37	Belgian	78,355	339,512
38	English	78,078	31,894,251 (12,952,661 English alone)
39	Welsh	77,949	1,956,225
40	Hungarian	77,611	1,323,336
41	Finnish	77,356	653,222
45	Irish	76,036	33,618,500 (9,919,263 Irish Alone)
48	German	75,583	42,532,542 (German Alone 14,323,028)
56	Albanian	72,043	214,300
58	Spanish	71,903	1,489,866
59	French	71,407	8,053,902 (French or French-Canadian alone 2,211,954)
61	Dutch	70,872	3,103,648 (Dutch Alone 916,096)
64	Cajun	68,383	1.2 million
91	American	57,761	17,504,233
93	Pennsylvania Dutch	56,290	n/a
101	Appalachian	49,717	25.7 million

 

[MOESAN]

Frankly, when it comes to economic policy, I think left-wing ideas are tolerable. I even have some left-wing leanings on some aspects of it. Unbridled capitalism with no regard for how it affects society is far from ideal in my opinion. We need certain safety nets to keep civilization going. But when it comes to radical left-wing ideas regarding gender, race, immigration, I am completely against it.
Originally, the left did not engage in such matters. In fact, some communists like Castro believed homosexuality was a result of the decadence of capitalism.

I'm leftist as a whole, and it concerns firstly the social aspect more than the 'societal' one. I understand very well we occidental citizens of evolved countries have to recognize our historical collective responsabilities (colonization by force, slavery ...) or to review our gender stereotypes, but I have hard work to swallow a lot of the 'Woke' concepts, this caricatural war against the "chauvinist patriarcal white male", this confusion put into not mature young heads about gender choice (or no choice!), the systematic revision of History (LOL: pictures with a "black Vercingetorix" or a "drag-queen Julius Caesar", the "not consented kiss to the Belle au Bois Dormant"...) + a one-side repentance for us, forgotten the other Human groups similar behaviour in History, the confusion between victims and heroes, and a lot yet...
Just to say that I don't consider some of the Radical Left Wing people as leftists. Not busy Bobo's maybe.

 

[firetown]

it's pointless, deleting my post

 

[firetown]

It is interesting though how leftists push things as far as they think they can and then get "offended" by others taking things further.