Genetic study Studying genetic and cultural admixture of Phoenicians in Sicily

Weird samples, R1b-V88 and E-V12. I am expecting a combination of J1 and E-M34 among Phoenicians as main Y-DNA's.
Well
E-v12 was found before
In middle late bronze age extreme south turkey/ north syria ( not far from where the horrible earthquaqe took place):sadcry:
Ala136-e-v12 ( after his bam file analysis)

https://www.theytree.com/usersample/4436bec40d17f53fc3fe3b6aa4ee5c59.html

image


https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0241883

So it can occure in 1 of those 13 akhzib individuals who dates to
8th centurey bc ( modern north israel)
We shall wait and see;)
 
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i don't know from where
this dude has those other punic
samples results
( but it was posted in twitter )
notice the j1 ( nice this could be a phoenician sailor strait from lebanon);)
Fodm3yDWIA0bSP3
 
To all those interested in Phoenicians, I recommend reading this book.


Josephine Quinn, In Search of the Phoenicians, Princenton, 2017

Who were the ancient Phoenicians, and did they actually exist?


https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691175270/in-search-of-the-phoenicians

The Phoenicians traveled the Mediterranean long before the Greeks and Romans, trading, establishing settlements, and refining the art of navigation. But who these legendary sailors really were has long remained a mystery. In Search of the Phoenicians makes the startling claim that the “Phoenicians” never actually existed. Taking readers from the ancient world to today, this monumental book argues that the notion of these sailors as a coherent people with a shared identity, history, and culture is a product of modern nationalist ideologies—and a notion very much at odds with the ancient sources.

Josephine Quinn shows how the belief in this historical mirage has blinded us to the compelling identities and communities these people really constructed for themselves in the ancient Mediterranean, based not on ethnicity or nationhood but on cities, family, colonial ties, and religious practices. She traces how the idea of “being Phoenician” first emerged in support of the imperial ambitions of Carthage and then Rome, and only crystallized as a component of modern national identities in contexts as far-flung as Ireland and Lebanon.

In Search of the Phoenicians delves into the ancient literary, epigraphic, numismatic, and artistic evidence for the construction of identities by and for the Phoenicians, ranging from the Levant to the Atlantic, and from the Bronze Age to late antiquity and beyond. A momentous scholarly achievement, this book also explores the prose, poetry, plays, painting, and polemic that have enshrined these fabled seafarers in nationalist histories from sixteenth-century England to twenty-first century Tunisia.

 
i don't know from where
this dude has those other punic
samples results
( but it was posted in twitter )
notice the j1 ( nice this could be a phoenician sailor strait from lebanon);)
Fodm3yDWIA0bSP3


The c14 dates of the bones from the Villamar necropolis are 200-400 years older than the objects buried in the tombs and the type of tombs in general, which both date to the 4th-3rd century bc, Late Punic, almost Roman period. Strange. There's a discrepancy between the c14 dates of the bones and the objects buried with the dead in the Punic Sicilian tombs as well.
 
The c14 dates of the bones from the Villamar necropolis are 200-400 years older than the objects buried in the tombs and the type of tombs in general, which both date to the 4th-3rd century bc, Late Punic, almost Roman period. Strange. There's a discrepancy between the c14 dates of the bones and the objects buried with the dead in the Punic Sicilian tombs as well.


apparently the punic samples ( VIL007, VIL011, MSR002,ORC002) i wondered about are from this paper:


https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-14523-6


and here are there bam files :


https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB35094
 
i don't know from where
this dude has those other punic
samples results
( but it was posted in twitter )
notice the j1 ( nice this could be a phoenician sailor strait from lebanon);)
Fodm3yDWIA0bSP3

Its two punic J-L283 from Tunisia.
 
Its two punic J-L283 from Tunisia.

You never make much sense. Kerkouane is a cosmopolitan port entailing all sorts of pan mediterranean trade networks. The oldest J2b-L283>PH1602 samples are from EBA-LBA Cetina-Dinaric and IA Illyrian sites from Dalmatia. There are scientific papers, read them:

https://www.academia.edu/36936788/The_Cetina_phenomenon_across_the_Adriatic_during_the_2nd_half_of_the_3rd_millennium_BC_new_data_and_research_perspectives

What this further informs us of is that people with all sorts of different European backgrounds, in this particular case with ultimately East Adriatic/Western Balkan descent migrated beyond the borders of Europe.

More exact classification for those two European Ys downstream of Cetina/Dinaric (courtesy of Flor Veseli):

ID R11751 728.5-409.5 calBCE J2b-L283>>Z615>Z597>Y15058>Z38240>PH1602 Z584+, Z38240+, PH1601+, Y130866-, Y86930-, Y39237-, Y103474-, Y91418-


ID R11753 656-405.5 calBCE J2b-L283>>Z615>Z597>Y15058>Z38240 Z584+, Z38240+, FT75472-, Y86930-, BY161402-, BY162716-

Likely spread via some mainland Italian (or islands) intermediary after their initial EBA Cetina expansion.
 
don't know when it comes out
maybe should be part of of the future punic paper ;)

FopGmhXXwAEwylu
 
You never make much sense. Kerkouane is a cosmopolitan port entailing all sorts of pan mediterranean trade networks. The oldest J2b-L283>PH1602 samples are from EBA-LBA Cetina-Dinaric and IA Illyrian sites from Dalmatia. There are scientific papers, read them:

https://www.academia.edu/36936788/The_Cetina_phenomenon_across_the_Adriatic_during_the_2nd_half_of_the_3rd_millennium_BC_new_data_and_research_perspectives

What this further informs us of is that people with all sorts of different European backgrounds, in this particular case with ultimately East Adriatic/Western Balkan descent migrated beyond the borders of Europe.

This article makes no mention of it. I tried to search for tunsia and Kerkouane and nothing came up. I also skimmed through

Anyways this is what it says
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerkouane

Kerkouane or Kerkuane (Arabic: كركوان, Karkwān) is the site of an ancient Punic city in north-eastern Tunisia, near Cape Bon. Kerkouane was one of the most important Punic cities[dubious – discuss], with Carthage, Hadrumetum (modern Sousse), and Utica. This Phoenician city was probably abandoned during the First Punic War (c. 250 BC) and was not rebuilt by the Romans. It had existed for almost 400 years.

Kerkouane is a small town and was probably never home to more than 1,200 people, mostly fishermen and craftsmen.. Based on the presence of many murex shells, it would appear that the town produced purple dye, in addition to salt and garum (a food product).[1]

Excavations of the town have revealed ruins and coins from the 4th and 3rd centuries BC. Around the site where the layout is clearly visible, many houses still show their walls, and the coloured clay on the facades is often still visible. The town was built on a grid with wide streets and public squares. The houses were built to a standard plan, in accordance with a sophisticated notion of town planning.

Traces of red ochre found in excavated tombs are common also to native Libyan burial customs, but the religious and architectural traditions of the town are predominantly of Carthaginian style. A black-figure wine jug decorated with a scene from The Odyssey found with an Ionian cup, and Greek architectural elements like peristyle courtyards and stucco plaster decorations found among the remains of upscale private homes, show the town was influenced by the culture of the greater Mediterranean world.[1]

A sanctuary has some columns preserved, and in a small atrium parts of mosaics are found. Curbstones, doorsteps, thresholds, and floors of simple mosaic layers are found all over the ruins.[3]

There is an area for ritual banquets and a sacrificial altar. While archaeologists are unsure precisely which deities the temple was dedicated to, they speculate based on artifacts found at the site that it may have been Melqart, Sid and Tanit.Terracotta heads showing two males wearing conical hats resemble Sid and Melqart iconography known from the Temple of Antas in Sardinia.
 
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If one were to project a PCA with these samples, against other west eurasians, as it here using Dodecad K12 in 3D PCA; this would be the "Z-Axis".

CWjpHOU.png


sU4ekpj.png

To me this shows Iberomaurusian, (or even Natufian) as more ideal for modeling West Eurasians in ultimate source ancestry, than Levant_N, which you can observe is mixed on the cline.
 

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