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Thread: Is Turkey a Western country ?

  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arame View Post
    RIFFIAN
    Morocco is not part of EU. And You have the right to defend Yourself from European rules if You dislike them. Albania wants and dream to be part of European Community but reading this forum users it seems they don't give much about European internal politics.



    I am not sure Serbs want to liquidate Albania. Serbs have problems with Kosovo Albanians. But unlike Turks who killed most of Armenians, Assyrians, Greeks and other ethnic minorities Serbs didn't kill much Albanians. How many Albanians were killed by Serbs? If they had killed millions like Turks in the past, today surely they will not have any problem in Kosovo. Kosovo could be a pure Serbian territory.

    P.S. BTW I notice that Albanians also attack Greece. So what harm did Greeks to them?

    it is simple,
    Ottoman empire was based on 3 kinds of army,
    Religion foundamentals
    Yenicaries (blood taxation)
    allies/mercenairies (assimilated greeks or other ethnicities, Kurds Albanians)
    after Greek revolt, the Albanians were the primary army and ally of Ottomans till today,
    and case of N Epirus.
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    .
    Culturally Greeks, Albanians, Turks, Macedonians are similar. But genetically not so much. Turks and Greeks appear to be close genetic cousins. The presence of J2a, J1 and G2a I think is high in both ethnic groups. One can spot an Albanian in a Turkish or Greek crowd. Its hard to tell the difference of Turk from west Turkey from a Greek.
    I could say the same,

    I can not find a Difference among a Tosk Albanian a Greek a Bulgarian a Romanian,
    only when they speak,

    and believe me I have seen many Turks may Bulgarians many Romanians many Tosk Albanians,

    the only who are different in balkans are
    the Rodope Pomaks,
    the red hair of Romania,
    and the tall ones from Croatia Serbia Montenegro Skopje, (that shape is typical of Serbs Bosnians Croatians Skopje)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Piro Ilir View Post
    What money are you talking about? He said that I am ISIS lover and other personal attacks. This thread is about other things not about me. He was making it personal. Albanian military fought among Americans in Afghanistan against Taliban, and in Iraq either. There were shut by the Taliban some Albanian solders, one of which got injured and another got killed by the talibans. Albanian government sends military supplies and help to the Kurdish solders, who are fighting against terrorists of ISIS in Iraq. Albanian police officers are training the Afghan police in Afghanistan to do a better job against the Taliban. Albanian solders are part of every military mission undertaken by the Americans. Albanians are proud for this. The Albanian soldier killed in Afghanistan by the Taliban, was honored like a hero in Albania after his death
    Are you nuts? or you keep tell us lies?
    Albanian and Skopjie police were trained in Greece and Italy at 1997 till 2006 until they remodel their police schools.
    every year 50+50 police officers were in Greek police scholls for 2 years each, trained to every degree, even as paraschutist police
    Come on face the truth

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    @ Lebrok

    ok you complain about my post #350
    but the when the hell happened that in #340
    when I was working in University and I remember that night,
    Last edited by Yetos; 29-07-15 at 00:37.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arame View Post
    One thing surprises me. Why Albanians so fervently defend Turkey?
    Because You have problems with neighbours and You assume that Turkey will support Your cause?
    But this mean You guys are going against the interests of Europe because You want an outsider state to intermingle into European politics.
    It is actually the other way around. Muslim countries with large funds, like Arabia and Turkey, use borderlining Muslim nations like Bosniaks, Albanians or Chechens to promote their irredentism. They are also backed up by EU and NATO, propelled by CIA's resource grabbing policy. Albanians did their share of dirty deeds lately and were rewarded for that. Now they just they feel gratitude towards their handlers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    You well noticed. And right reasons are because Albanians were one of main Turkish allies of all Ottoman Empire.

    And today and in future many want.

    I give only one example, when Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan came to the Balkans:

    http://www.worldbulletin.net/haber/1...sovo-is-turkey

    His words:

    "Turkey is Kosovo and Kosovo is Turkey".

    "We are all children of same country".

    "Today I greet all Albanians, Bosnians, Turks and Gorans”.

    We will build our future together, same as our grandfathers, our ancestors did.

    We lived here as brothers for centuries and we will continue so."

    (We can see in other websites and newspapers a lot of others statements of the Balkans but for now this is enough.)

    ...
    How one artist sees Turkish Albanian alliance (megahdwallpapers):

    For sure kosova is not Turkey, you and Erdogan know this well. It will never be. Erdogan was a guest, and no-one can force a guest about the stuff he want to say. National hero of the Albanians is Gjergj Kastrioti. No one forced the Albanians making him a national hero.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Religion has too much power.

    Religion should be a private thing and not a gang thing

    All religious leaders should be placed within each nation by the government and each placement should be changed every 2 years.
    I agree on the first part. But I think you are wrong about the government. It is too dangerous for the democracy if the government is placing the religious leaders. I think the government and the religion should be divided as much as possible. This is how the democracy works. The western way should be followed on the future even by the Muslim countries. I know it will be a long and difficult process, but I have hope. In Albania is the most liberal Islam of the world as I know. I hope this kind of Islam will be exported throughout the rest of the Islamic world either.

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    I don't know what Turkey is, certanly it is not a democratic country.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Piro Ilir View Post
    I agree on the first part. But I think you are wrong about the government. It is too dangerous for the democracy if the government is placing the religious leaders. I think the government and the religion should be divided as much as possible. This is how the democracy works. The western way should be followed on the future even by the Muslim countries. I know it will be a long and difficult process, but I have hope. In Albania is the most liberal Islam of the world as I know. I hope this kind of Islam will be exported throughout the rest of the Islamic world either.
    oh really?
    I hope not, cause might bring DAESH warriors in Balkans,
    anyway I thought that Albanians were Atheists

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    Lebrok I appreciate your attempt at a neutral approach but you always over-simplify thing to a pretty ridiculous extent. Greeks and Turks aren't homogeneous amongst themselves, especially Turks, so you can't really put all those people in a single group just based on Maciamo's maps. Turks have absorbed people from all Western Asia, the Balkans, the Steppe, Central Asia, and even Central European Celts, and these ratios change drastically from region to region, and city to city. Northern Greeks also have more Slavic and Albanian genes, and likewise for Southern Albanians and Northern ones to some extent. I'm sure if you gather 4-5 people from each group, most of them would be very quick to point out which group belongs to what nation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    it is simple,
    Ottoman empire was based on 3 kinds of army,
    Religion foundamentals
    Yenicaries (blood taxation)
    allies/mercenairies (assimilated greeks or other ethnicities, Kurds Albanians)
    after Greek revolt, the Albanians were the primary army and ally of Ottomans till today,
    and case of N Epirus.
    Many Albanians participated on Greek revolution. They did the hardest job against ottomans during that period. A large part of Peloponnesian was inhabited by ethnic Albanians.
    What north epirus has to do with all this

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    I could say the same,

    I can not find a Difference among a Tosk Albanian a Greek a Bulgarian a Romanian,
    only when they speak,

    and believe me I have seen many Turks may Bulgarians many Romanians many Tosk Albanians,

    the only who are different in balkans are
    the Rodope Pomaks,
    the red hair of Romania,
    and the tall ones from Croatia Serbia Montenegro Skopje, (that shape is typical of Serbs Bosnians Croatians Skopje)
    Gheg Albanians are tall people. Taller than the tosk Albanians. Tosk Alban are blonde hair more than gheg Albanians. Gheg Alban are more brown and black hair. I2 DNA lineage is more common in tosks, and E1b is more common on gheg Albanians. Albanians are different in physical appearance from the Greeks ,Turks and Bulgarians. Gheg Alban are much more tall than the Greeks and the Turks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Are you nuts? or you keep tell us lies?
    Albanian and Skopjie police were trained in Greece and Italy at 1997 till 2006 until they remodel their police schools.
    every year 50+50 police officers were in Greek police scholls for 2 years each, trained to every degree, even as paraschutist police
    Come on face the truth
    I don't about the training you are talking here , but for sure during the last years in Afghanistan were Albanian police officers training the Afghan police. I am not sure if they still are there now. This was the one of many operations of Albania in Afghanistan within the alliance . Each one is free to search on YouTube .
    Stop telling me what I am, and calling me with epithets

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    It is actually the other way around. Muslim countries with large funds, like Arabia and Turkey, use borderlining Muslim nations like Bosniaks, Albanians or Chechens to promote their irredentism. They are also backed up by EU and NATO, propelled by CIA's resource grabbing policy. Albanians did their share of dirty deeds lately and were rewarded for that. Now they just they feel gratitude towards their handlers.
    Can you elaborate more, what dirty deeds Albanians did, and with what they were rewarded?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    oh really?
    I hope not, cause might bring DAESH warriors in Balkans,
    anyway I thought that Albanians were Atheists
    As already everyone know you are again wrong. Albanian Muslims are the most liberal Muslims throughout the world. Generally the religion in Albania is liberal not only the Islam.
    Yes, some Albanians are atheist for sure, as the rest of the world. Albanians are a united nation, although they are divided in 4-5 different religions. Their enemies always tried to create dissention on them, using the religion. Scanderbeg, is their national hero, this mean a lot .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Piro Ilir View Post
    Gheg Albanians are tall people. Taller than the tosk Albanians. Tosk Alban are blonde hair more than gheg Albanians. Gheg Alban are more brown and black hair. I2 DNA lineage is more common in tosks, and E1b is more common on gheg Albanians. Albanians are different in physical appearance from the Greeks ,Turks and Bulgarians. Gheg Alban are much more tall than the Greeks and the Turks.
    The only one who Albanians resemble closely in the Balkans are Bosnian and Herzegovinan's. I personally believe that large sections of Bosnian populations are pre- Slavic people that inhabited the area who switched the language.
    The appearance difference with Greeks, Turks and Slavs is striking. A Croatian lady friend of mine always told me that she was able to tell an Albanian from a large Balkan crowd. Personally I agree. Greeks are hybrid of Classic Greek people, Turks, Albanians, Vlahs, Slavs and at smaller extend Arabs and Gypsys. Geg Albanians are 100% Dinarics and Tosk Albanians 50% Dinarics.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Piro Ilir View Post
    As already everyone know you are again wrong. Albanian Muslims are the most liberal Muslims throughout the world. Generally the religion in Albania is liberal not only the Islam.
    Yes, some Albanians are atheist for sure, as the rest of the world. Albanians are a united nation, although they are divided in 4-5 different religions. Their enemies always tried to create dissention on them, using the religion. Scanderbeg, is their national hero, this mean a lot .
    But you still do not see the issue, the albanians put their religion before their ethnicity or their nationality
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    But you still do not see the issue, the albanians put their religion before their ethnicity or their nationality
    Piro already said that "they are divided in 4-5 different religions." and he is right so I don't know where you get this idea.


    If you were right, there would be strong separatist Albanian Catholic movement. Piro, is there any thing like that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Piro Ilir View Post
    Can you elaborate more, what dirty deeds Albanians did, and with what they were rewarded?
    Yes I can:


    "The forces generating and sustaining the so-called Kosovo Liberation Army have remained mostly hidden. What's really behind the KLA has become more important now that President Bill Clinton has started a war against Yugoslavia. Many reports in the past have mentioned the covert forces involved with the KLA. For example, on July 15, 1998, PBS Newshour reported that U.S. Vietnam War veterans were training KLA mercenaries in Albania..." (source)


    "Amply documented by European police files, acknowledged by numerous studies, the links of the KLA to criminal syndicates in Albania, Turkey and the European Union have been known to Western governments and intelligence agencies since the mid-1990s ..." (source)



    "MEK’s plans to replace its former terrorist training camps in Iraq with a new camp in Albania....The MEK is trying to get support in the West for its fundamental aim of opposing Iran..." (source)


    "During the 1990s, Albania became a safe-haven for members of Egyptian Islamic Jihad and al-Qaeda...
    These actions had ultimately been necessitated by the reckless and opportunistic policy of the Albanian government in the early 1990s, when then-President Sali Berisha allowed foreign Islamic radicals to establish a foothold in the country, under the tacit support of the then-intelligence chief Bashkim Gazidede. (Following the March 1997 riots and the toppling of Berisha’s government, Gazidede fled to Syria and then Turkey;..."(source)



    "Turkey was safe haven for Jabhat al Nusra, later ISIS. Turkish citizens have been involved in organ harvesting in Kosovo."(source)



    "V Rrokum teaches among others, has said Sevim Dağdelen German Bundesëehr’i has been for 16 years in Kosovo, according to her, no one else has achieved the objectives it has had. MP of Turkish origin has strongly attacked UÇK’n and its former leaders who now run the government of Kosovo, which, according to her, related to recent attacks “terrorist” in Macedonia and neighboring countries."(source)



    "Macedonia, or its institutions of state were target of a terrorist attack, informed Tuesday Assistant Interior Minister, Ivo Kotevski. Kotevski added that a group of about 40 persons entered the “Gosince” watchtower, located at Macedonia’s north border. The intruders were heavily armed, spoke Albanian language and wore insignia associated with the Kosovo Liberation Army or the National Liberation Army. The attackers tied the officers with handcuffs, hit one of them, and used a camera to record the entire event.
    With the help of a translator who spoke in poor Macedonian language, the group leader told the policemen that they are from the UCK, and that Ahmeti or Gruevski can’t save them, that they want their own state, refuse to accept the Ohrid framework agreement, and will kill Macedonian officers if they come back to man the police station”, Kotevski said, adding that the Interior Ministry is currently taking steps to clear up the incident.Members of the armed group gave the police officers half an hour to leave the police station, before they liquidate them."(source)



    "KFOR officers report that their orders are to disregard crimes: “Of course it’s mad,” a French commander said, “but those are the orders, from NATO, from above.” NATO forces also “seem completely indifferent” to attacks by “armed ethnic Albanian raiders” across the Serb-Kosovo border “to terrorize border settlements, steal wood or livestock, and, in some cases, to kill,” leaving towns abandoned."(source)




    ...etc. Infinite list.

    CIA and Islamic terrorists are creating hell here on Balkan.

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    How Albania's Religious Mix Offers an Example for the Rest of the World
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephe...b_2199921.html

    QUOTING:

    Albanians have traditionally counted about 35 percent Sunnis, 35 percent Bektashis, 20 percent Albanian Orthodox and 10 percent Catholics. Today the Albanian religious panorama has expanded to include Baha'is, Evangelical Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, among others.

    Yad Vashem, the aptly titled Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' Remembrance Authority in Israel, recognizes 69 Albanians as "Righteous Among Nations." Documentary research and interviews in Albania, Kosovo and Macedonia by me and others, nevertheless, suggests that the number of rescuers of Jews included many more, drawn from Sunni, Bektashi, Catholic and Orthodox clergy and families. The small Albanian nation could not prevent the Holocaust elsewhere in Europe, but they did so on their own territory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FBS View Post
    How Albania's Religious Mix Offers an Example for the Rest of the World
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephe...b_2199921.html

    QUOTING:

    Albanians have traditionally counted about 35 percent Sunnis, 35 percent Bektashis, 20 percent Albanian Orthodox and 10 percent Catholics. Today the Albanian religious panorama has expanded to include Baha'is, Evangelical Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, among others.

    Yad Vashem, the aptly titled Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' Remembrance Authority in Israel, recognizes 69 Albanians as "Righteous Among Nations." Documentary research and interviews in Albania, Kosovo and Macedonia by me and others, nevertheless, suggests that the number of rescuers of Jews included many more, drawn from Sunni, Bektashi, Catholic and Orthodox clergy and families. The small Albanian nation could not prevent the Holocaust elsewhere in Europe, but they did so on their own territory.
    About 95% Kosovo and ex Macedonia Albanians are Muslims.

    About 70% Albanians in Albania are Muslims.

    Orthodox Albanians (20% in Albania) are mostly assimilated Armanji (Aromanians) and Epirotes people.

    Albanians once were mostly Roman Catholics, Albanians are only nation in the world who converted from Roman Catholicism to Islam.

    If we consider all Albanians in the Balkans, about 90% Albanians are Muslims, and among them by far the most Sunni Muslims.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Piro Ilir View Post
    For sure kosova is not Turkey, you and Erdogan know this well. It will never be. Erdogan was a guest, and no-one can force a guest about the stuff he want to say. National hero of the Albanians is Gjergj Kastrioti. No one forced the Albanians making him a national hero.
    Recep Tayyip Erdogan when he was Turkish Prime Minister, made speech in front of the highest Albanian officials (including Edi Rama, Prime Minister of Albania) and numerous assembled people in Kosovo, and for his words "Kosovo is Turkey" etc. he got frenetic applause from Albanian officials and public.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -RIFFIAN- View Post



    I don't see anything wrong in the statements of erdo,while the Muslim peoples of the Balkans and the Turkish people are happy and satisfied of this historic alliance and brotherhood,no doubt they are,is what matters,these people do not care about the opinion of Serbia or EU,moreover, the Muslim religion also suggests that the relationship between the Muslim peoples (Muslims) to be strong and there is a union between Muslims,you are not Muslim, so it misses you.
    Of course you are right. Your logic is correct and natural. Muslims will always strive Caliphate as it is at the root of religion of Islam.

    I'm not against Union of Muslims if Muslims want it (and who asks me). It is possible that modern Muslim Caliphate is aspiration Muslim people all over the world.

    But some country cannot be in the same time the member of two different unions. Every community has own standards and rules, it is not possible that one country is member of European Community and in same time member of Muslim Caliphate Community.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    You come to these sites to read something worthwhile, and all you find are schizophrenic conspiracy rantings about caliphates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    But you still do not see the issue, the albanians put their religion before their ethnicity or their nationality
    Where did you noticed such thing? . Can you elaborate more. Their national hero is Gjergj Kastrioti. Mainly he fought against the ottomans. But he fought some battles against the Venetians and the Serbs too. What this mean to you? Albanians did the right choice, they separated the two, ,the religion and the ethnicity. This didn't happened on the Greeks and the the others. A Muslim Albanian feel more close to a Christian Albanian rather than to a Muslim Turk and Arab. There is not a cultural difference between Albanians.

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