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Thread: Is Turkey a Western country ?

  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piro Ilir View Post
    Can you elaborate more your theories. It's coming to be an attitude for you. What you mean by "big Kosova is coming soon" . First time hearing this
    maybe first for you
    but surely not last,
    you will hear it often as war is coming to balkans,
    key word, Tettovo, ...., ...., ...,
    (and i thought you worked for USA embassy,)
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  2. #502
    Regular Member Piro Ilir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    maybe first for you
    but surely not last,
    you will hear it often as war is coming to balkans,
    key word, Tettovo, ...., ...., ...,
    (and i thought you worked for USA embassy,)
    It looks like propaganda. Can you elaborate more, or you just don't have arguments? What you mean by key word tetova? What has to do the American embassy with your ghosts and conspiracies? You just making propaganda here?

  3. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reflected View Post
    '' Greeks share so much with Turkish that only the religion and language separate them.


    I beg to differ here.
    And you are right to differ my friend. Apart from mediterranean climate, and excluding similarities of the last 30-40 years, there is really nothing in common between Greeks and Turks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Well, I do't know how much you know about Greece and Turkey. Historically, the Western part of present-day Turkey belongs to Ancient Greece. In the 4th century BC, Alexander annexed Anatolia (what is now Turkey) to the Greek sphere of influence, as well as the whole middle east. Then came the Romans. In the 4th century AD, Constantinople become the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire, later to become the Orthodox Christian Byzantine Empire, which official language was Greek. So up to the 15th century when the Muslim Turks from Central Asia (Turkmenistan !) invaded the Byzantine Empire and created the Muslim Ottoman empire (renaming Byzantium/Constantinople "Istanbul"), what is now Greece and Turkey were the same country, with the same culture, language, religion and history. So what is it that the Turks have change, if not the official language and religion, and bringing some Asian blood (but, as you probably know, there are still blue-eyed Turks of European ancestry) ?
    Sorry but you also seem to not know much about Greece and Turkey as well

    first: You overlook 200-400 (i some cases 700) years of Catalan, Frankish and venetian dominance in Greece, and their effects

    second: you overlook the fact that Turks, were culturally and from other aspects affected mostly from Arabs and Persians, not byzantines

    third and the most important: you overlook 200 years of modern Greece (Greek kingdom and Hellenic republic) and its evolution

  5. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bren View Post
    Sorry but you also seem to not know much about Greece and Turkey as well

    first: You overlook 200-400 (i some cases 700) years of Catalan, Frankish and venetian dominance in Greece, and their effects

    second: you overlook the fact that Turks, were culturally and from other aspects affected mostly from Arabs and Persians, not byzantines

    third and the most important: you overlook 200 years of modern Greece (Greek kingdom and Hellenic republic) and its evolution
    Anatolia has probably no more than 20% Turkish Dna, the rest is closer to Greeks....they have nothing to do with Arabs and Persians.


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    A 1/4 of Turkey in the area of Istanbul (Constantinople) is considered Europe, the rest is Asia.
    This is what they used to teach Kids in school years ago. Now I’m not that sure.
    🕷️

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    Japan is more of a Western state than Turkey in most ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    That might be YOUR definition of "Western". You don't need to be a Christian country to be "Western"- Albania and Bosnia are western to me.

    You don't need to have a Roman heritage to be western - Iceland and Finland have no Roman history I'm aware of.

    You can be a western country even if you write with Cyrillic, not Roman, script.

    We don't all speak languages with common roots. Basque, Hungarian, Finnish and Estonian are not Indo-European languages.

    So, what IS your definition of "Western" when it's clear your first try doesn't work.
    Lol you've never been to either Bosnia or Albania. They are far too poor to be part of the West. I've visited the former after being through Western Europe and it was like stepping into another dimension.

    If we go by political means, any country that opposes EU and NATO is not Western (Russia). If Turkey joins the EU, it is politically Western (as it also belongs in NATO). Just shows how stupid the term really is.

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    Turkey strikes me as a diverse country with both European and Middle Eastern, as well as some Central Asian roots even. The crossroads between two parts of Eurasia. The west along the Aegean and Thrace/Istanbul seems fairly western, but the further you go east and interior, it gets more exotic and less familiar in many ways. I wouldn't go as far as calling it western for sure though. Also, the Byzantine empire was multicultural, even though it was mostly Greek speaking or ruled by such people.

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    I don't see how Turkey can fit into Europe at all, and "western" is just ridiculous. There is no logic geographically, culturally or historically, genetically this is absurd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blablabla View Post
    genetically this is absurd.
    why? not only is this irrelevant, it is also completely wrong. so easy to spot certain people nowadays.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    why? not only is this irrelevant, it is also completely wrong. so easy to spot certain people nowadays.
    You speak here only on your behalf, and I on my behalf. That is, the above is my personal opinion. And to note that I am an adult, intelligent and balanced individual with a university education, difficult to manipulate.
    For you Western Europeans it may not matter, but for Europe's ancient peoples underlying European civilization and culture, Christendom, this is an absurd distortion of reality.
    The history and origins of these people do not allow such a denial of the facts.
    And let's not forget the original meaning of the word "west", this is a geographical concept primarily, not related to financial well-being as some of the above try to convince us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blablabla View Post
    You speak here only on your behalf, and I on my behalf. That is, the above is my personal opinion. And to note that I am an adult, intelligent and balanced individual with a university education, difficult to manipulate.
    For you Western Europeans it may not matter, but for Europe's ancient peoples underlying European civilization and culture, Christendom, this is an absurd distortion of reality.
    The history and origins of these people do not allow such a denial of the facts.
    And let's not forget the original meaning of the word "west", this is a geographical concept primarily, not related to financial well-being as some of the above try to convince us.

    of course it's just your opinion. i would understand a cultural argument, but why should Turkey not be "western" because of genetics? geography has nothing to do with what is counted as "western" either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    of course it's just your opinion. i would understand a cultural argument, but why should Turkey not be "western" because of genetics? geography has nothing to do with what is counted as "western" either.
    Lol and what do you think west means if not one of the directions of the world literally translated into any language?!
    Not a single piece of scientific paper or anything I have seen so far shows that the Turks have anything to do with Europe. However, some northwestern Europeans have a lot in common with Asia, but it does not follow that both of the above are Europeans, definitely not. It means that they share a common Asian origin. Asian, not European.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blablabla View Post
    Lol and what do you think west means if not one of the directions of the world literally translated into any language?!
    Not a single piece of scientific paper or anything I have seen so far shows that the Turks have anything to do with Europe. However, some northwestern Europeans have a lot in common with Asia, but it does not follow that both of the above are Europeans, definitely not. It means that they share a common Asian origin. Asian, not European.
    lol you realize that the US, south america, europe, australia etc are all considered to be part of the western world by some people? it has nothing to do with geography anymore. what is western and what isn't is imo mostly a cultural question. for many people parts of eastern europe and also south eastern europe are not considered to be real "western" regions for example.
    and funny how you focus on the east asian part in anatolia and forget all the rest. quite telling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    lol you realize that the US, south america, europe, australia etc are all considered to be part of the western world by some people? it has nothing to do with geography anymore. what is western and what isn't is imo mostly a cultural question. for many people parts of eastern europe and also south eastern europe are not considered to be real "western" regions for example.
    and funny how you focus on the east asian part in anatolia and forget all the rest. quite telling.
    And how does your notion of the West relate to the issue under discussion?!
    If we talk about the West in terms of spirituality and human and cultural value, China stands to the west of all of Western Europe in every way. From here, by your strange logic, China is the westernmost country in the world.
    And what does "not western regions" have to mean in this case in relation to European countries with a strict geographical definition excluding "west" by presumption? Why do you even point it out, imagining that some Eastern or Central European country would like to associate with the West?! How self-righteous statement. Let me explain to you that the concept of the West also has a very negative connotation for a number of reasons, if we are to go to the bottom of your Western distorted policies and replace the terminology that has been in place for thousands of years.
    I have not focused on either eastern or western Anatolia, for me they are a whole and I have stated my reasons why Turkey will never be perceived as Western, much less European.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blablabla View Post
    And how does your notion of the West relate to the issue under discussion?!
    If we talk about the West in terms of spirituality and human and cultural value, China stands to the west of all of Western Europe in every way. From here, by your strange logic, China is the westernmost country in the world.
    And what does "not western regions" have to mean in this case in relation to European countries with a strict geographical definition excluding "west" by presumption? Why do you even point it out, imagining that some Eastern or Central European country would like to associate with the West?! How self-righteous statement. Let me explain to you that the concept of the West also has a very negative connotation for a number of reasons, if we are to go to the bottom of your Western distorted policies and replace the terminology that has been in place for thousands of years.
    I have not focused on either eastern or upper western Anatolia, for me they are a whole and I have stated my reasons why Turkey will never be perceived as Western, much less European.
    i never argued about Turkey beeing "western". and why should it be self rightous to point out that the term "western world" often does not mean "european" and also does not inlude all of europe depending on who you ask?
    however you are painting it as if it was some closed genetic group which Turkey can not enter which isn't true. btw you know there is the term "westernize" right?

    as for the stuff you wrote about china, i don't get your point. how is china more western in terms of culture than for example the US?

  18. #518
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    Whether its Western depends on the West's willingness to include it into their designation. West isn't really a geographic nor political category but is more of a "club" you get to join once you've sucked enough dicks and licked enough boots. The EU is controlled by Germany, which controls Europe, which is in turned controlled by USA in a sort of hive mind network chain. I'd say if you're powerful enough to challenge them (such as Russia) then you're not a part of the West. In my opinion Slavs in general are distinct from Westerners, they have different values and a different way of life.

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