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Thread: Is Turkey a Western country ?

  1. #151
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    No to Turkey. We've gone too far in that direction already.
    Some days you're the dog. Other days you're the lamp post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwyllgi View Post
    No to Turkey. We've gone too far in that direction already.
    Yes indeed. In my opinion, there is no room for debate.

  3. #153
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    Yeah sure, we shouldn't judge Turkey as a whole...

    Turkey bans trips abroad for artificial insemination

    By Jonathan Head
    BBC News, Istanbul



    Turkish citizens cannot conceal the paternity of their children

    A new law passed in Turkey has made it a criminal offence for a woman to go abroad and get pregnant via artificial insemination.

    Artificial insemination is already illegal, but women have until now been able to go overseas to seek sperm donors.

    Now they will face punishment of one to three years in prison for doing so.

    Doctors and lawyers say they are trying to find out how the government plans to enforce the law.

    All sorts of activities can land you in court, and possibly in jail, in Turkey.

    Insulting "Turkishness", taking part in demonstrations, or showing the slightest sympathy for the banned Kurdish Workers' Party, for example.

    Now you can add to that long list the crime of using a foreign sperm donor.

    Paternity concerns

    Artificial insemination is already illegal in Turkey. Doctors offering fertility treatment here have to make that clear in their advertising.

    But women have until now been able to seek sperm donors overseas without fear of prosecution.


    We spent years fighting to improve the law so that it would properly protect women's autonomy over their bodies and sexuality


    Pinar Ilkkaracan
    Women's rights campaigner

    However, a new regulation, quietly published nine days ago by the Turkish Health Ministry, states that any clinics, doctors or patients who use, or encourage the use of, overseas sperm banks will be reported to state prosecutors and face possible criminal charges.

    Clinics will be closed down, for three months at first and then permanently if the offence is repeated.

    A spokesman at the Department of Health, Irfan Sencan, said the regulation was covered by article 231 of the criminal code, which makes it a crime to conceal the paternity of a child.

    But Pinar Ilkkaracan, a prominent women's rights campaigner in Turkey, said it would be a misinterpretation of a law intended to protect the inheritance rights of children.

    "This is completely against the philosophy of the reformed penal code," she told the BBC.

    "We spent years fighting to improve the law so that it would properly protect women's autonomy over their bodies and sexuality.
    "This government has slipped this regulation in without any debate in parliament."

    Conservative outlook

    "It is a huge step backwards," said Ismail Mete Itil, chairman of the Turkish Gynaecologists' and Obstetricians' Association.

    "The law should be reformed to take into account the new choices technology offers women - they have done the opposite. They have not thought through the implications of this."

    Dr Itil said the number of women seeking sperm donors overseas was small, fewer than 100 a year, but he worries about the implications of the new regulation in other areas, like ethnically-mixed couples.

    The issue was publicly discussed last year when one of Turkey's best-known actresses, Guner Ozkul, announced she had used a sperm donor in Denmark to conceive her daughter, who is now five months old.
    Ms Ozkul told the BBC she did not want to comment on the new regulation.

    It is hard to imagine pregnant women being put on trial just for the way they conceived, but not impossible in Turkey, where last month a 15-year-old Kurdish girl was jailed for nearly eight years just for taking part in a demonstration.

    Ms Ilkkaracan believes the move reflects the conservative outlook of the governing Justice and Development Party, which has strongly promoted family values.

    She cites the party's failed attempt to criminalise adultery in 2004, and Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's public call for women to have at least three children as examples.
    source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8568733.stm


    What a great and tolerant man this Erdogan is. Very open-minded. And the fact that governments from failed states adore him just give him more points.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by ^ lynx ^ View Post
    Yeah sure, we shouldn't judge Turkey as a whole...

    source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8568733.stm


    What a great and tolerant man this Erdogan is. Very open-minded. And the fact that governments from failed states adore him just give him more points.

    Yes, all quite pathetic... Erdogan, such a beneficent and unprejudiced human being...

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    Posted by @lynx




    What a great and tolerant man this Erdogan is. Very open-minded. And the fact that governments from failed states adore him just give him more points.
    Sometimes it is good to be viewed (by whom?) as a "failed state"?

    What is a "failed state"... A state that has not the monopoly of violence.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_state

    Sometimes it could happen that when there is war between criminals and traitors, is beneficial for the country, weaking both.

    (We already know who is going to win in 2012)

    I worried?

    I would be, if my country collected unconditional praise and support from your country, like for example, Columbia... and we do not find yet mass-graves with 2,000 innocent people inside, while some countries (not only yours) applaud... and on the contrary, choose to critisize Cuba and Venezuela for things that are much less against human rights to what happen everyday in their own countries.

    Yes... I prefer that my country have more relationship with countries like Erdogan's Turkey, than real criminal and fraudulent countries, that fill their mouths with the words "human rights".

    I enjoy my failed state...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdtQZGR8QQY

    P.S.

    ( ... and a couple more videos, with music of "failed" countries... so you enjoy too...
    http://rt.com/Best_Videos/2009-09-10...ks-moscow.html
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sznD8rrHCbk )

    ;)

  6. #156
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    Good for you. I guess that's the reason of your disagreement in this issue with us. In Europe we have a very exigent view on what's a democratic and pacific state. Not to mention we also have a very restrictive and exigent view on freedom and what's a good qualify of life.

    I guess it is a matter of different idiosyncracies. Some countries can feel more identified with Turkey's problems than others. And in Europe we aren't used to see the kind of things people in East Turkey or Ciudad Juarez is used to see.

    Nobody can't blame us for trying to preserve our current standard of life and democracy. Europe had suffered enough already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ^ lynx ^ View Post
    Good for you. I guess that's the reason of your disagreement in this issue with us. In Europe we have a very exigent view on what's a democratic and pacific state. Not to mention we also have a very restrictive and exigent view on freedom and what's a good qualify of life.

    I guess it matter of different idiosyncracies.
    The real morals and fundamental decency of a country always show up at the end...

    It is good to know that everything goes well with yours.

    Regards.

  8. #158
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    OK


    PS - Why did you quote my signature, btw?

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    I think this thread has already been answered. No, they are not a Western country nor european. No further discussion is needed. We have given all the evidences

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    I think this thread has already been answered. No, they are not a Western country nor european. No further discussion is needed. We have given all the evidences
    Answered many times over...

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    I was just looking through these tables:
    Go to surrounding areas and Kurdistan. Looking at y haplogroups they look damn European, I 25%, R1a 19.5, R1b 8, G 12.5. Honestly I don't know history of Kurds, but this is quite extra ordinary and shocking to me. I didn't expect that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ^ lynx ^ View Post
    OK

    PS - Why did you quote my signature, btw?
    This one?



    I thought you wanted to communicate something with that...

    Is it not dedicated to me?

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    The EU will not allow the entry of Turkey (a healty, strong and
    growing Economy, with sound public finances) due to the psychological
    needs of some countries dedicated to money laundering and low
    productivity, at the other side of the continent.

    Of course, at the end it was France and Germany the ones that put
    the real money on the table...

    Given the current problems, probably it was good for Turkey not to
    enter, after all...

    Estanbul...





    The Turks have all to win their own future, by their own means,
    without to worry about some people in denial.

    Regards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I was just looking through these tables:
    Go to surrounding areas and Kurdistan. Looking at y haplogroups they look damn European, I 25%, R1a 19.5, R1b 8, G 12.5. Honestly I don't know history of Kurds, but this is quite extra ordinary and shocking to me. I didn't expect that.
    There’s a whole lot more to what makes up a people than the "genes in their Jeans". Other than physical and capabilities at best all they do is establish predispositions.

    What is significant are memes, the basis of so much of the “nature Vs. nurture” factor, in short never mind the cell content, concentrate on what’s in the heart.

    THAT is one very good, and I suggest the determining reason, why Turkey must NEVER be allowed to become a part of the EU.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwyllgi View Post
    There’s a whole lot more to what makes up a people than the "genes in their Jeans". Other than physical and capabilities at best all they do is establish predispositions.

    What is significant are memes, the basis of so much of the “nature Vs. nurture” factor, in short never mind the cell content, concentrate on what’s in the heart.

    THAT is one very good, and I suggest the determining reason, why Turkey must NEVER be allowed to become a part of the EU.
    Yes indeed. The concerns regarding Turkey have more to do with memes than genes. Turkey's set of cultural dispositions, inclinations and preferences; the structures of the Turkish habitus...

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius2b View Post
    This one?



    I thought you wanted to communicate something with that...

    Is it not dedicated to me?
    It is a criticism to north-american politics on immigration. Why do you feel alluded by the pic, btw? I find extremely funny your reaction.


    The Turks have all to win their own future, by their own means,
    without to worry about some people in denial.
    Good for them, I wish the turkish people all the best. But if their future is so bright by their own side I fail to see why are you so irritated and angry at us for not wanting Turkey into EU.

    It looks like you feel very identified with them... why? It's because you felt rejected by us some time ago as well and that still hurts you??


    Greetings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ^ lynx ^ View Post
    It is a criticism to north-american politics on immigration. Why do you feel alluded by the pic, btw? I find extremely funny your reaction.
    Given your past history as Latin American - specially Mexican - basher, somehow I find that very difficult to believe.

    However, even if what you say hits the probability of 0.0000000001 of being truth, you could follow that in some other forum...

    http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t700625/

    I posted under the names "Greaser_José" and "MexicanCommunist". It could will be interesting to read for some other users, I guess.


    Good for them, I wish the turkish people all the best. But if their future is so bright by their own side I fail to see why are you so irritated and angry at us for not wanting Turkey into EU.
    I really wonder where the communication problem really lies... or is it bad faith?

    I am not irritated for the non-entrance of Turkey in the EU... if well, it has to be pondered the reasons behind that denial.

    If something could irritate me in the Turkish affair, were the almost yearly attempts of coup coordinated by the CIA, Mossad and BND, and the unashamed humiliations and open petitions for that in some European press, to the turkish military... of which, naturally, the average European "knew nothing" (or simulated not to).

    Still, I am not bitter at the sight of those injustices, and here is why: Those attempts failed... Erdogan won (at least in the following years), and Turkey goes a way that I very much consider as ideal and positive for a favorable evolution of itself, and that region of the world.

    That would not have been possible, but for a mutation of Weltanschauung the Turkish public opinion have underwent in recent times... with a clarity and vision, that really marvels.

    (However, I know that my knowledge of Turkish reallity is very poor, never being there or had the opportunity to read really in depth about that culture and their best philosophers).

    But I keep looking at the situation of Turkey, from time to time.

    It looks like you feel very identified with them... why? It's because you felt rejected by us some time ago as well and that still hurts you??

    Greetings.
    Who is "us"?

    In this forum, I feel very much in tune with most of the people. I don't feel "rejected" by @Maciamo... or the general user of this forum.

    I am here to learn from others, and to share information that I deem as potentially interesting for other users, in an ambiance of respect.

    If by "us" you mean "yourself" and other people "near your geographical area"... well, that is evident.

    But still - you should know - I don't care a peanut about that.

    +++++++++++++++

    P.S.

    Do I feel "identified" with Turkey?

    No more that I am feel "indentified" with countries like Brazil, Venezuela, Rusia, Iran or China.

    Those are real interesting countries... independent players, with good expectatives.

    ( Wish one day, Mexico will return to that league. )

    Regards.
    Last edited by Sirius2b; 13-05-10 at 06:39.

  18. #168
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    "Posted on Stormfront"

    Says it all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwyllgi View Post
    "Posted on Stormfront"

    Says it all.
    Hell no.

    Maybe it will mean what you wanted to imply, if I have posted under names like "Wothan", or "Kampfverbande"...

    On the contrary, I posted in "Opposing views", as a no registered user, and with anti-racist arguments.

    Come on @Gwyllgi... do the homework.

    +++++++++++++++++

    Now, if you do not like my views about Turkey and recent history of the subject - as I know you do - then let's continue the discussion ABOUT Turkey.

    Regards.

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    By the way, I know of some users of this Forum, that post there, positively in the sense you wanted to imply.

    But I will say no more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius2b View Post
    By the way, I know of some users of this Forum, that post there, positively in the sense you wanted to imply.

    But I will say no more.
    There are someplaces where decent people simply don't go if for no other reason than they dislike the smell of those at home there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwyllgi View Post
    There are someplaces where decent people simply don't go if for no other reason than they dislike the smell of those at home there.
    Well... I am not saying I am "decent".

    I am saying, I'm not racist.

    Regards.

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    What is your definition of "racist"?

  24. #174
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    I don't post in stormfront moron I'm not even registered in that shitty place. Stop building false scenarios about me just because you felt humiliated when you DESPERATELY tried to convince us that average mexicans look spanish. You exposed yourself like the only racist in here denying the amerindian roots of your people and trying to make them look like "europeans". You're a ridiculous being. If all mexicans are like you I'm not surprised that Mexico has so many social problems.

    And even a retarded donkey could see that the pic in my signature is clearly mocking at the north-american contradictory behaviour on immigration. If your personal insecurities doesn't allow you to see that is not my problem.

    About Turkey, you're clearly in denial. Anyone who have read all your posts in this topic will see that you have been very disrespectful to anyone who is against Turkey into EU (especially against iberians). You have been contradictory in your statements: You claim that Turkey is better alone but you still look pissed off about our refuse to accept them into the EU. It makes no sense. Mexicans in general doesn't give a s*it about Turkey especially because you guys have worse problems than them. You felt rejected by us (Willhelm, Cambria Red and me) when you first came here (see the link above). Now that I reject to accept Turkey into the EU for political and cultural reasons you keep looking as annoyed as then. Personal insecurities and inferioty complex attack again.

    Who is "us"?

    In this forum, I feel very much in tune with most of the people. I don't feel "rejected"
    Click the link above. You perfectly know what I'm talking about.


    PS - Btw, apparently people at stormfront doesn't allow anyone to get registered there unless you have been previously identified as "one of them".

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwyllgi View Post
    What is your definition of "racist"?
    Since he ran away I'm going to answer for him.

    Sirious' definition of "racist" is: anyone who refuses to agree with his "spanish-look-alike" description of average mexicans.

    Greetings.

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