Is Turkey a Western country ?

Women told: 'You have dishonoured your family, please kill yourself'

As Turkey cracks down on 'honour killings', women are now told to commit suicide


By Ramita Navai in Batman, eastern Turkey


Friday, 27 March 2009


This family of sisters said there had been an honour killing in their village, in one of the most patriarchal areas of Kurdish Turkey, and they live in constant fear.



When Elif's father told her she had to kill herself in order to spare him from a prison sentence for her murder, she considered it long and hard. "I loved my father so much, I was ready to commit suicide for him even though I hadn't done anything wrong," the 18-year-old said. "But I just couldn't go through with it. I love life too much."

All Elif had done was simply decline the offer of an arranged marriage with an older man, telling her parents she wanted to continue her education. That act of disobedience was seen as bringing dishonour on her whole family – a crime punishable by death. "I managed to escape. When I was at school, a few girls I knew were killed by their families in the name of honour – one of them for simply receiving a text message from a boy," Elif said.

So-called "honour killings" in Turkey have reached record levels. According to government figures, there are more than 200 a year – half of all the murders committed in the country. Now, in a sinister twist, comes the emergence of "honour suicides". The growing phenomenon has been linked to reforms to Turkey's penal code in 2005. That introduced mandatory life sentences for honour killers, whereas in the past, killers could receive a reduced sentence claiming provocation. Soon after the law was passed, the numbers of female suicides started to rocket.


Elif has spent the past eight months on the run, living in hiding and in fear. Her uncles and other relatives are looking to hunt her down, for dishonour is seen as a stain that can only be cleansed by death. One of the women's shelters where Elif has stayed has been raided by armed family members.


Elif is from Batman, a grey, bleak town in the south-east of Turkey nicknamed "Suicide City". Three quarters of all suicides here are committed by women – nearly everywhere else in the world, men are three times more likely to kill themselves. "I think most of these suicide cases are forced. There are just too many of them, it's too suspicious. But they're almost impossible to investigate," said Mustafa Peker, Batman's chief prosecutor.


Wearing tight clothes or talking to a man who is not a relative is sometimes all it takes to blacken the family name. Mr Peker said women who are told to kill themselves are usually given one of three options – a noose, a gun or rat poison. They are then locked in a room until the job is done.


A woman's fate is usually decided during a "family council", when the extended family meets to discuss breaches of honour. In these meetings, it is agreed how the victim must be killed. If it is not to be a forced suicide, a killer is chosen. The youngest member of the family is often ordered to kill, in the belief they will be treated more leniently if caught.


Mehmet was 17 when he was handed a gun and told he would have to kill his stepmother and her lover. "I didn't want to do it. I was so young and so scared," he said. Mehmet ran away, but his family tracked him down and warned him his own life would be in danger if he refused to kill.
He shot dead his stepmother's lover, but his stepmother survived the attack. He was given a two-and-a-half- year prison sentence.



"There were many other 'honour killers' in prison and we were treated with respect, even by the prison guards," Mehmet said.


Most honour killings happen in the Kurdish region, a barren land ravaged by years of war and oppression. Rural communities here are ruled under a strict feudal, patriarchal system. But as Kurds have fled the fighting between separatist rebels and Turkey's government, the crime is spreading across the country into its cities and towns. According to a recent government report, there is now one honour killing a week in Istanbul.


"Families who move here are suddenly faced with modern, secular Turkey," said Vildan Yirmibesoglu, the head of Istanbul's department of human rights. "This clash of cultures is making the situation worse as the pressure on women to behave conservatively is become more acute. And of course there are more temptations."



Ms Yirmibesoglu believes that the entrenched belief in the notion of honour – at all levels of society – is impeding any progress. "Honour killings aren't always properly investigated because some police and prosecutors share the same views as the honour killers," she said. "For things to change, police, prosecutors and even judges need to be educated on gender equality."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...your-family-please-kill-yourself-1655373.html
 
I think we all remember this horrible case...

Turkish girl, 16, buried alive 'for talking to boys'

Death reopens debate over 'honour' killings in Turkey, which account for half of all the country's murders

The-hole-where-a-16-year--001.jpg


The hole where a 16-year-old girl was buried alive by her relatives in Adiyaman, southeastern Turkey Photograph: HO/REUTERS



The following correction was printed in the Guardian's Corrections and clarifications column, Wednesday 24 February 2010

The article below reported the arrest of relatives on suspicion of killing a teenager for having friendships with boys. More than 200 such killings take place each year, said the piece, "accounting for around half of all murders in Turkey". According to Eurostat, Turkey's yearly murder rate averaged 6.1 per 100,000 population between 2005 and 2007 (the ?latest figures), meaning that the 200 are actually set against an annual total of about 4,400.
Turkish police have recovered the body of a 16-year-old girl they say was buried alive by relatives in an "honour" killing carried out as punishment for talking to boys.The girl, who has been identified only by the initials MM, was found in a sitting position with her hands tied, in a two-metre hole dug under a chicken pen outside her home in Kahta, in the south-eastern province of Adiyaman.


Police made the discovery in December after a tip-off from an informant, the Turkish newspaper Hurriyet reported on its website.


The girl had previously been reported missing.


The informant told the police she had been killed following a family "council" meeting.
Her father and grandfather are said to have been arrested and held in custody pending trial. It is unclear whether they have been charged. The girl's mother was arrested but was later released.


Media reports said the father had told relatives he was unhappy that his daughter – one of nine children – had male friends. The grandfather is said to have beaten her for having relations with the opposite sex.


A postmortem examination revealed large amounts of soil in her lungs and stomach, indicating that she had been alive and conscious while being buried. Her body showed no signs of bruising.


The discovery will reopen the emotive debate in Turkey about "honour" killings, which are particularly prevalent in the impoverished south-east.


Official figures have indicated that more than 200 such killings take place each year, accounting for around half of all murders in Turkey.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/04/girl-buried-alive-turkey
 
They have no place in Europe, they have a medieval mentality
 
Latest news: Two-day-old girl killed in 'honour killing

Turkish police on Friday detained an unmarried mother and six other people near Istanbul for their suspected role in the so-called "honour killing" of a 2-day-old baby girl, state news agency Anatolian said.

The baby was suffocated by her grandmother after the family learned the 25-year-old mother became pregnant out of wedlock, Anatolian said.

"My family decided to kill my baby," the mother told the police, according to Anatolian. "My 55-year-old mother choked the baby with a cloth. Then, my brothers buried the baby in a hole in the garden and covered the hole with cement."

Police found the body after receiving an anonymous phone call.

Among those detained were also a doctor and the doctor's secretary, They allegedly had agreed not to register the baby's birth in return for an undisclosed amount of money.

The baby's father is doing his military service and was not involved in the incident.

"Honour killings," or crimes carried out against women seen to have tainted the family's name, are not uncommon in mainly Muslim Turkey, particularly in poor and rural areas.

The European Union, which Turkey has applied to join, has repeatedly urged Ankara to take a tougher stance against such crimes.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/3593858/Two-day-old-girl-killed-in-honour-killing

This didn't even happen in East Turkey but close to Constantinople which belongs to Europe geographically! Constantinople is lately flooded by people who move there from all over Turkey. The city has already lost its western identity...

Is this the "European" Capital of Culture 2010???
 
Latest news: Two-day-old girl killed in 'honour killing



http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/3593858/Two-day-old-girl-killed-in-honour-killing

This didn't even happen in East Turkey but close to Constantinople which belongs to Europe geographically! Constantinople is lately flooded by people who move there from all over Turkey. The city has already lost its western identity...

Is this the "European" Capital of Culture 2010???


This sort of thing happens far too often in Turkey. It is truly sickening... :mad:
 
Hearthbreaking.

But according to some people we should give more importance to Turkey's economic future than to this kind of turkish uncivilized "traditions". Like money comes first than human rights.
 
Undoubtly tragic the case of the little baby murdered... and similar cases.

It will be good that the Turkish goverment do something so that those things will not repeat.

However, my humble view is that Turkey should be judged as a whole and not for those lamentable cases, due to lack of modern education of some people in remote provinces.

Latin America will be always open to a respectful relationship with the Turkish people, and noble and dignified P.M. like Erdogan.

Precisely, it will be good that while the Turkish have so undoublty national and patriotic government to increase trade between our countries...


Erdogan in Mexico: "Alliance of Civilizations".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyPLwLvC2-k
http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=347427

Undoubtly Mexico should have more relations with respectful and progressive countries such as Turkey...

Regards.

++++++++++++++++++++++++

P.S.

In Venezuela, people admire very much Erdogan... it will be good that the P.M. goes there in his next trip...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z2b6DV22IY&feature=related

Besides... Ergogan is a Turkish politician, and the most important for him is the opinion of the Turkish people, that adore him...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD6lFW-JbPc&NR=1

Regards.
 
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Undoubtly tragic the case of the little baby murdered... and similar cases.

It will be good that the Turkish goverment do something so that those things will not repeat.

However, my humble view is that Turkey should be judged as a whole and not for those lamentable cases, due to lack of modern education of some people in remote provinces.

....

The problem is that this happened in Constantinople not in the far east in some remote village... I was really surprised when I realized that the location of the murder was Constantinople.
 
The problem is that this happened in Constantinople not in the far east in some remote village... I was really surprised when I realized that the location of the murder was Constantinople.

Yes I noticed and read what you said, which was...

This didn't even happen in East Turkey but close to Constantinople which belongs to Europe geographically! Constantinople is lately flooded by people who move there from all over Turkey. The city has already lost its western identity...

Is this the "European" Capital of Culture 2010???

So, in reality, the problem continues to be not so much a Constantinople problem, but the education of rural Anatolia... from which people move with all their cultural bagage to more developed areas.

+++++++++++++

On the other hand, @Mariane, I would not critisize you for anything you will say about the Turks... for it is understandably that with the history between Turkey and Greece, including the Cyprus it is most than natural than some Greek do not think the best of Turks...

And even so, a very strong commercial relationship has been built among Greace and Turkey, and the fact that the Greek understand better the Turks that all the other Europeans, and their own national interests... now we have that recently the European country that most insisted in the admission of Turkey, is precisely Greece...

Greece wants Turkey's EU accession

Athens actually wants its Turkish neighbour to join the EU because the advantages outweight the disadvantages, the conservative daily Kathimerini writes: "Greece is perhaps the only country that really wants a European Turkey.

http://www.eurotopics.net/en/dienst...TICLE62206-Greece-wants-Turkey-s-EU-accession


I tell you, I won't critisize your positions or views.

On the other hand, there are some people that opose Turkey solely for psychological reasons, completedly disconnected from the real issue.

(Of course I am not talking about Britain, USA, Germany, France, etc... that have their real own reasons to either opose or support Turkey entrance).

Regards.
 
No to Turkey. We've gone too far in that direction already.
 
Yeah sure, we shouldn't judge Turkey as a whole...

Turkey bans trips abroad for artificial insemination

By Jonathan Head
BBC News, Istanbul
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Turkish citizens cannot conceal the paternity of their children

A new law passed in Turkey has made it a criminal offence for a woman to go abroad and get pregnant via artificial insemination.

Artificial insemination is already illegal, but women have until now been able to go overseas to seek sperm donors.

Now they will face punishment of one to three years in prison for doing so.

Doctors and lawyers say they are trying to find out how the government plans to enforce the law.

All sorts of activities can land you in court, and possibly in jail, in Turkey.

Insulting "Turkishness", taking part in demonstrations, or showing the slightest sympathy for the banned Kurdish Workers' Party, for example.

Now you can add to that long list the crime of using a foreign sperm donor.

Paternity concerns

Artificial insemination is already illegal in Turkey. Doctors offering fertility treatment here have to make that clear in their advertising.

But women have until now been able to seek sperm donors overseas without fear of prosecution.


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We spent years fighting to improve the law so that it would properly protect women's autonomy over their bodies and sexuality
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Pinar Ilkkaracan
Women's rights campaigner

However, a new regulation, quietly published nine days ago by the Turkish Health Ministry, states that any clinics, doctors or patients who use, or encourage the use of, overseas sperm banks will be reported to state prosecutors and face possible criminal charges.

Clinics will be closed down, for three months at first and then permanently if the offence is repeated.

A spokesman at the Department of Health, Irfan Sencan, said the regulation was covered by article 231 of the criminal code, which makes it a crime to conceal the paternity of a child.

But Pinar Ilkkaracan, a prominent women's rights campaigner in Turkey, said it would be a misinterpretation of a law intended to protect the inheritance rights of children.

"This is completely against the philosophy of the reformed penal code," she told the BBC.

"We spent years fighting to improve the law so that it would properly protect women's autonomy over their bodies and sexuality.
"This government has slipped this regulation in without any debate in parliament."

Conservative outlook

"It is a huge step backwards," said Ismail Mete Itil, chairman of the Turkish Gynaecologists' and Obstetricians' Association.

"The law should be reformed to take into account the new choices technology offers women - they have done the opposite. They have not thought through the implications of this."

Dr Itil said the number of women seeking sperm donors overseas was small, fewer than 100 a year, but he worries about the implications of the new regulation in other areas, like ethnically-mixed couples.

The issue was publicly discussed last year when one of Turkey's best-known actresses, Guner Ozkul, announced she had used a sperm donor in Denmark to conceive her daughter, who is now five months old.
Ms Ozkul told the BBC she did not want to comment on the new regulation.

It is hard to imagine pregnant women being put on trial just for the way they conceived, but not impossible in Turkey, where last month a 15-year-old Kurdish girl was jailed for nearly eight years just for taking part in a demonstration.

Ms Ilkkaracan believes the move reflects the conservative outlook of the governing Justice and Development Party, which has strongly promoted family values.

She cites the party's failed attempt to criminalise adultery in 2004, and Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's public call for women to have at least three children as examples.
source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8568733.stm


What a great and tolerant man this Erdogan is. Very open-minded. And the fact that governments from failed states adore him just give him more points.
 
Yeah sure, we shouldn't judge Turkey as a whole...

source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8568733.stm


What a great and tolerant man this Erdogan is. Very open-minded. And the fact that governments from failed states adore him just give him more points.


Yes, all quite pathetic... Erdogan, such a beneficent and unprejudiced human being... :useless:
 
Posted by @lynx

sigpic27982_2.gif



What a great and tolerant man this Erdogan is. Very open-minded. And the fact that governments from failed states adore him just give him more points.

Sometimes it is good to be viewed (by whom?) as a "failed state"?

What is a "failed state"... A state that has not the monopoly of violence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_state

Sometimes it could happen that when there is war between criminals and traitors, is beneficial for the country, weaking both.

(We already know who is going to win in 2012)

I worried?

I would be, if my country collected unconditional praise and support from your country, like for example, Columbia... and we do not find yet mass-graves with 2,000 innocent people inside, while some countries (not only yours) applaud... and on the contrary, choose to critisize Cuba and Venezuela for things that are much less against human rights to what happen everyday in their own countries.

Yes... I prefer that my country have more relationship with countries like Erdogan's Turkey, than real criminal and fraudulent countries, that fill their mouths with the words "human rights".

I enjoy my failed state...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdtQZGR8QQY

P.S.

( ... and a couple more videos, with music of "failed" countries... so you enjoy too...
http://rt.com/Best_Videos/2009-09-10/hugo-chavez-rocks-moscow.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sznD8rrHCbk )

;)
 
Good for you. I guess that's the reason of your disagreement in this issue with us. In Europe we have a very exigent view on what's a democratic and pacific state. Not to mention we also have a very restrictive and exigent view on freedom and what's a good qualify of life.

I guess it is a matter of different idiosyncracies. Some countries can feel more identified with Turkey's problems than others. And in Europe we aren't used to see the kind of things people in East Turkey or Ciudad Juarez is used to see.

Nobody can't blame us for trying to preserve our current standard of life and democracy. Europe had suffered enough already.
 
Good for you. I guess that's the reason of your disagreement in this issue with us. In Europe we have a very exigent view on what's a democratic and pacific state. Not to mention we also have a very restrictive and exigent view on freedom and what's a good qualify of life.

I guess it matter of different idiosyncracies.

The real morals and fundamental decency of a country always show up at the end...

It is good to know that everything goes well with yours.

Regards.
 
I think this thread has already been answered. No, they are not a Western country nor european. No further discussion is needed. We have given all the evidences
 
I think this thread has already been answered. No, they are not a Western country nor european. No further discussion is needed. We have given all the evidences

Answered many times over...
 

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