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Thread: AIDS spreading fast worldwide

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    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    Exclamation AIDS spreading fast worldwide



    Check this out :
    BBC News : Global HIV rates at record high

    The global spread of HIV

    In summary, 40 million people are infected with HIV worldwide, with 14.000 new cases daily. In Southern African countries, up to 40% of the people are contaminated ! Imagine 4 people out of 10 in the streets with HIV/AIDS.

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    thats crazy. people really should take more care in choosing sex partners...
    Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.

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    I have been an advocate of AIDS for years now. It is population control. One thing that makes me crazy about living here in the states is all the warnings and disclaimers. Don't put the hair dryer in the shower? why not??? I have a very low tolerence for stupidity!

    I can empathise with the people who have it and feel bad. The bad choices I have made are coming back to bite me in the butt too. I just try to make better decisions. I live as safe as I can using the common sense I have.

    Sorry for the ranting.
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    "I have been an advocate of AIDS for years now. It is population control."

    You're kidding right? Because if you aren't... then that it is quite possibly the most insensitive and ignorant thing I have ever heard anyone say. Have you ever known someone with full-blown AIDS or witnessed what they and their families have had to go through? I'm guessing not... And to quote yourself at this juncture:

    "I have a very low tolerence for stupidity!"

    Well, at least we agree on something...
    FYI: I am out of town and offline for the time being until further notice.

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    Regular Member samuraitora's Avatar
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    I have 2 friends in the hospital with AIDS right now. One of them is going to die with in the next 5 days, says the doctor. In what I wrote, I said I could empathize with these people. I can feel their pain, based on some of the suffering I have had to endure through the years. I don稚 care to discuss some of the things I have gone through.

    I had a friend in the cancer ward in a Chicago hospital. His jaw had to be removed from chewing tobacco and smoking. He had to be fed with a tube and you could see the roof of his mouth, upper teeth, stub where they left part of the tongue, and a few other nasty things. The nurse had to come in and squirt his gaping hole so it wouldn稚 dry out. I sat with him and was supportive until the day he died. In that time we conversed on many topics, via speech and writing.

    One thing we discussed was population control through the history of man. If it weren稚 for famine, wars, disease, and many other nasty things that can seem inhuman, this place would be well over populated. Not to mention the fact that people are sensitive to things and if they don稚 exist, there is nothing to be sensitive of. With a lack of stimuli in a negative way, the human race would have basically gone one of two ways. They would be so innocent and naive or they would have created it on their own through boredom and lack of stimulus.

    I don稚 want to ramble on here, but disease, war, and things of that nature are often good in the long run. That is if you can get over your stigmas and out of your little head and look at the big picture!

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    Originally posted by samuraitora
    IOne thing we discussed was population control through the history of man. If it weren稚 for famine, wars, disease, and many other nasty things that can seem inhuman, this place would be well over populated. Not to mention the fact that people are sensitive to things and if they don稚 exist, there is nothing to be sensitive of. With a lack of stimuli in a negative way, the human race would have basically gone one of two ways. They would be so innocent and naive or they would have created it on their own through boredom and lack of stimulus.
    I don't know much about this at all, but a couple of obvious points : 1). modern, humane family planning techniques now make population control through "natural" methods nearly obsolete (unless you are an advocate of AIDS even in countries that are actually striving for a higher birth rate) 2). a distinction needs to be drawn between human and natural "population control" disasters and plagues. It could be, for instance, that the balance between human and natural, nonrenewable resources is by definition a final, determining population control measure outside the realm of theoretically "preventable" causes or man made acts such as disease, war, etc. Although the boredom issue is a wholly different matter....

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    Regular Member samuraitora's Avatar
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    In response to:
    1) If you follow modern family planning population control methods, the people with the biggest families will populate the planet. I am not advocating AIDS and saying that I am happy it is here. I just thing that AIDS is a better population control than War, because people whom contract it (["for the most part"]) deserve it. That may seem short sided, but if your having unprotected sex or utilizing intravenous needles for drug use, you deserve it. No if, ands, or buts. You know the consequences and still are doing it. Like my friend in the hospital, I empathize with his pain and situation, but still blame him for putting himself in the hospital. He knew the consequences of his actions.

    2) Is there really much of a distinction? Most humans have the rationalization and intelligence to be able to extend and find new ways to cope with nonrenewable resources depletion. Tornados, Hurricanes, Lightning, Earth Quakes, and things of that nature can be avoided, predicted, but not made extinct. They will, most likely, always be natural disasters.

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    Originally posted by samuraitora
    In response to:
    1) If you follow modern family planning population control methods, the people with the biggest families will populate the planet. I am not advocating AIDS and saying that I am happy it is here. I just thing that AIDS is a better population control than War, because people whom contract it (["for the most part"]) deserve it. That may seem short sided, but if your having unprotected sex or utilizing intravenous needles for drug use, you deserve it. No if, ands, or buts. You know the consequences and still are doing it. Like my friend in the hospital, I empathize with his pain and situation, but still blame him for putting himself in the hospital. He knew the consequences of his actions.


    Unless you have data showing that wars which kill the most people tend to occur in places most in need of population control ( aside from genocide or so-called ethnic cleansing) I don't think this comparison really goes anywhere. Likewise, whether they "deserve" it or not is a moral judgement that seems unrelated to the need to keep the population under control. It certainly hasn't had that effect in the US anyway with the disproportionally large non-child bearing demographics that have been impacted.

    2) Is there really much of a distinction? Most humans have the rationalization and intelligence to be able to extend and find new ways to cope with nonrenewable resources depletion. Tornados, Hurricanes, Lightning, Earth Quakes, and things of that nature can be avoided, predicted, but not made extinct. They will, most likely, always be natural disasters.
    I was thinking more of environmental degradation such as overusing the land, the extinction of game used for food or resources such as oil, minerals, etc that are integral to maintaining a community. And now maybe someone more familiar with these issues can step in.

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    Regular Member samuraitora's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Elizabeth
    Unless you have data showing that wars which kill the most people tend to occur in places most in need of population control ( aside from genocide or so-called ethnic cleansing) I don't think this comparison really goes anywhere. Likewise, whether they "deserve" it or not is a moral judgement that seems unrelated to the need to keep the population under control. It certainly hasn't had that effect in the US anyway with the disproportionally large non-child bearing demographics that have been impacted.

    The reason that this has a valid point is because the population control opens a area for people to migrate to, move to, or utilize. It isn't always accurate or effective. It is a non-denominational population minimizer. Child bearing or not. If they are not here, the resources that would have been utilized on them can now be saved or redistributed. I am not saying that the theory is perfect or that it works well. This is just my opinion.

    .
    I was thinking more of environmental degradation such as overusing the land, the extinction of game used for food or resources such as oil, minerals, etc that are integral to maintaining a community. And now maybe someone more familiar with these issues can step in.
    So, I should be quiet now...ouch...lol
    As man, look at what we used 200 years ago, 150, 100, even 50 years ago. We only utilize part of what we need and everyone is freaking out saying that we are going to run out of oil, land, air, and so on.
    Land-not an issue with population control and the fact that we can build up or down.
    Oil-again, not an issue. We are moving to electric/solar power and 100 years ago didn't even use Gasoline!!! The oil that we did use, came from whales.
    Extinction of Game-nonsense. We may make "wild" game extinct, but we can farm more cows, chickens, and pigs than this country could use.
    I am not saying your wrong, just enjoying a good debate.
    Thank you.

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    Originally posted by samuraitora
    The reason that this has a valid point is because the population control opens a area for people to migrate to, move to, or utilize. It isn't always accurate or effective. It is a non-denominational population minimizer. Child bearing or not. If they are not here, the resources that would have been utilized on them can now be saved or redistributed. I am not saying that the theory is perfect or that it works well. This is just my opinion.

    I guess I don't understand the point here. Certainly urban civilization as we know it today couldn't exist had there never been efforts towards eradicating disease, sanitation and such which go hand in hand with improved quality of life that then leads to effective artificial population control through family planning, birth control, etc.

    So, I should be quiet now...ouch...lol
    As man, look at what we used 200 years ago, 150, 100, even 50 years ago. We only utilize part of what we need and everyone is freaking out saying that we are going to run out of oil, land, air, and so on.
    Land-not an issue with population control and the fact that we can build up or down.
    Oil-again, not an issue. We are moving to electric/solar power and 100 years ago didn't even use Gasoline!!! The oil that we did use, came from whales.
    Extinction of Game-nonsense. We may make "wild" game extinct, but we can farm more cows, chickens, and pigs than this country could use.
    I am not saying your wrong, just enjoying a good debate.
    Thank you.
    Yes, there are ways around it....but then the question becomes what is the need for population control in the first place if more and more people can be sustained at a reasonable level on fewer and fewer natural resources.

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    Regular Member samuraitora's Avatar
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    Elizabeth,
    You are fabulous. Thank you. I haven't had a good debate in a long time.

    I can't argue/debate with anything that you said. It is a double edge sword. Population control is good, if we don't want to anihilate what we have now. But on the other had, it isn't really neccessary because we can sustain whatever population we grow.

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    "That is if you can get over your stigmas and out of your little head and look at the big picture!"

    You have the gall to call me narrow-minded after making statements like:

    "I just thing that AIDS is a better population control than War, because people whom contract it (["for the most part"]) deserve it. That may seem short sided, but if your having unprotected sex or utilizing intravenous needles for drug use, you deserve it."

    No, they "deserve" to be educated and informed rather than have a death sentence cast over them. Quit judging people. You're not qualified.

    You also contradict yourself by saying in your first reply:

    "I have been an advocate of AIDS for years now. It is population control."

    And in your third reply:

    "I am not advocating AIDS and saying that I am happy it is here."

    So which is it? Quit waffling and trying to backpedal your way out (I noticed your recently added "Disclaimer"...). Personally, I find it tragic that in this day and age there are people like you all across America (and the world for that matter) who still cling to archaic and narrow-minded beliefs like yours. But whatever... I think our mutual opinion of each other is pretty clear at this point.
    :)

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    Originally posted by samuraitora
    Elizabeth,
    You are fabulous. Thank you. I haven't had a good debate in a long time.

    I can't argue/debate with anything that you said. It is a double edge sword. Population control is good, if we don't want to anihilate what we have now. But on the other had, it isn't really neccessary because we can sustain whatever population we grow.
    Although unfortunately most of the world still doesn't have access to sustainable solutions. And personal responsibility is crucial, it just isn't that different from the situation even in the US with the number of people receiving medical care for smoking, drinking, lack of exercise, unwanted pregnancy and other avoidable public health problems. .

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    I've had 2 dear friends of mine pass away due to AIDS and HIV. They didn't do anything to deserve it either. It was caused by an outbreak in the blood system for our bleeding disorder that we have (Hemophilia, Von Willebrand's Disease) (We get medicine from the blood)This caused tons of Hemophiliacs to get infected with HIV and eventually AIDS this was in the 80's so one of my friends, Glen who was 34 got news that he was HIV positive and killed himself, due to the shock of it all. And my dear friend Jim Love, died from HIV and complications with the initial disease, Hemophilia. It's been hard for me to get over this.
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    @ Iron Chef
    Why is it you think you池e the one I was talking to with the narrow-minded comment? Are you really that special that I should be concerned by or with what you think? It was a general comment; about people whom either don't know or wont know. You don't mean enough to me to slam you. I am not trying to be an @$$. Just making a point. I will be the first to apologize if I screw something up. I have never been called close-minded in my entire life. About whether they deserve it or not has to do if they make stupid choices. If you chose to have unprotected sex, after you have been informed of the AIDS virus, you do deserve it. That is my point. I don稚 see how that is archaic. That is simple and I teach my son the same thing. If you do something, something else is going to happen. Equal and opposite reactions for every action. He is 4 and seems to understand this better than most of the population of the planet. The fact you implied that I don't like you is ludicrous. I have not told you anything about my feelings towards you. I actually think you are quite intelligent. I don稚 always agree with you, and I don稚 see how that is such a problem. If I agreed with everything you said, that would be an issue.

    @Everyone
    I used the word advocate wrong in my first post. My most sincere apologies to all of you.

    @ Elizabeth
    I think you just hit it right on the head with saying that personal responsibility is crucial. That is the issue. Most people don稚 take responsibility for their actions.

    @Silver Angel
    I am sorry to hear about your friends. Those are the people that I can empathize with. They didn稚 make a choice to do something that caused their contraction of the virus. They were inflicted with it and that was unfair. I hope you have someone you can talk to, to help you work through this.

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    "Why is it you think you池e the one I was talking to with the narrow-minded comment? Are you really that special that I should be concerned by or with what you think? It was a general comment; about people whom either don't know or wont know. You don't mean enough to me to slam you."

    Let's see... you posted your original reply, I replied to your post, and in the last line of your immediate reply after me you wrote:

    "That is if you can get over your stigmas and out of your little head and look at the big picture!"

    General comment aimed at no one in particular? Yeah right... Next time don't use "you" and "your" in the same line (three times no less) and maybe it won't be taken out of context...

    And re: your last comment about slamming me... LOL, rest assured if I wanted to REALLY let you know how I feel I most certainly would. I have far too much respect for Thomas, this site, and the rest of our members though to do such a thing publicly. Sorry, but when people make comments like yours I have absolute zero tolerance for them. You have your beliefs and I have mine and apparently I am the only one to take issue with your callousness. So be it.
    :)

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    i dont know what the issue is between you two, but take it up in PMs or whatever its not something that needs to be on the forum.

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    The "issue" is I don't tolerate people who make comments like "anybody that gets AIDS deserves to die" which is essentially what he's saying. If you don't think I have shown considerable restraint in my replies to date, you are sorely mistaken. I have already stated in my reply above that I would not stoop so low as to publicly slander him on these boards. Don't presume to lecture me on forum etiquette.

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    im not lecturing anyone, that was one sentance and it was directed at both you and samuraitora. its not just this thread either, there have been others. i just chose to comment on this one as its the most recent.

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    I think probably more useful than ranting and name calling is to look at why some groups of people in developing countries particularly continue to engage in these behaviors if they are so aware it is a death sentence and try to address these proactively though social awareness and education. Unfortunately discussions of sex and gender is so culturally sensitive in some places such as South Africa or Asia that is extremely difficult to get past the denial stage, not to mention the lack of health care, testing, free or low cost condoms, clean needles and other practical prevention measures. Women especially are often in untenable situations with husbands that may have picked it up while away for extended periods, but would likely face abuse or worse by refusing sex. Most are uneducated and many forced into prostitution or the sex trade to earn the family wage. If anything has come of this thread, it should bring a much more nuanced awareness then either "most of the 40 million sufferers obviously have a death wish and are completely responsible for their behavior" or that "they all deserve our sympathy equally and without question."

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    "Ranting and name calling?" I actually thought I was a little more articulate than that...

    *sigh* Ok... here's the deal... I do not want to come off as abrupt or brash in my replies but sometimes you just have to take a stand for something you believe in. Like Silver Angel, I too have lost a good many loved ones to AIDS. Did they deserve it? Absolutely not. Who am I or anyone else for that matter, qualified to cast judgment as so? Which is EXACTLY why I take issue with Samuraitora's remarks.

    And as far as you're concerned Elizabeth, you can try and dissect this issue like a clinical surgeon with a sterile knife all you want... but for those of us who have lost dear friends to this terrible affliction, we can't be so unemotional in our stance or as unattached as you in our arguments.

    You all know me. I am not prone to passionate outbursts or publicly posting with such fervor. But this is an issue I will not back down from. Anyone that says people who get AIDS deserve to die is imho a complete and utter jerk (to put it lightly). Such remarks are a slap in the face to the dignity of my friend's memories and as such, I will not tolerate them.

    I am not asking for a retraction, or even an explanation. I am merely stating how I feel on this subject just as he has already done. If people want to force me on this issue be my guest. I will not yield on this one nor will I apologize for anything I have said up to this point.
    Last edited by Iron Chef; 27-11-03 at 05:29.

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    I've been debating on whether to even put my two cents in on this one ...

    @Samuraitora

    I just think that AIDS is a better population control than War, because people whom contract it (["for the most part"]) deserve it. That may seem short sided, but if your having unprotected sex or utilizing intravenous needles for drug use, you deserve it. No if, ands, or buts.
    I'm really shocked that you would think that anyone on this planet would ever deserve to contract and suffer from AIDS, no matter how they got it. You've stated your reasons and claim to be empathetic, but true empathy does not include judgment and blame, especially among friends. I'm very sorry for your friend's situation. That's a horrible way to die. I'm also surprised that you would think that war is justified as a form of population control. As a peace activist, I can't relate at all to your sentiments about war, but that's an entirely different discussion ...

    @SilverAngel

    I am so sorry to hear about your friends and your loss. That has to be so very difficult.

    @IronChef

    I agree with you ... this is a topic that people should feel passionate about, especially those like yourself who have lost friends and loved ones to this terrible disease. There has been too much prejudice surrounding this subject for many years, and it has created even more suffering for those afflicted with this terrible disease.



    I have been searching for a couple of articles I have from the mid- to late-'80s on this subject, but unfortunately, I have been unable to locate them (I will keep looking, though). In 1969, a U.S. army general testified in congress that our government was close to developing a virus that would be resistant to any type of antidote. (If I can locate that article, I can provide his exact testimony.) It would appear that either our government or the government of another country succeeded in creating this type of bio/chemical weapon. And it has been horrible to see so many people die as a result. Many people believe the disease spread through the U.S. via immigrants from third world countries that were targeted by this bio/chemical warfare. I know that the thing I found to be most interesting about Maciamo's link and info. provided above is the confirmation of the increase in AIDS cases in Africa and how much it has spread in just the last few years alone. I remember reading several years ago about the fact that most of the cases first reported in Africa were of government workers who were affected, which then spread like wildfire to the surrounding communities. Many of these poor communities don't have the resources to deal with a disease of this magnitude, and as we all know, even highly developed countries have a difficult time dealing with this disease. The games governments play and the sacrifice of human life as a result is simply appalling. If there is anyone to blame for this disease, it is the people who created this virus in the first place, not those who have been afflicted by it, for whatever reason. No one--no matter what they have done or not done--ever deserves this disease...

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    Well said Satori, I couldn't agree with you more. Thanks for weighing in on this one.

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    Thanks, IronChef! I just wish I could find those articles. I moved last year, so a lot of my things are still in boxes. I had to downsize from a three-bedroom house with double-car garage to a two-bedroom apt. with no garage or storage space, so you can just imagine. Hopefully, I didn't lose them in the move!

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    Originally posted by Iron Chef
    I am not asking for a retraction, or even an explanation. I am merely stating how I feel on this subject just as he has already done. If people want to force me on this issue be my guest. I will not yield on this one nor will I apologize for anything I have said up to this point.
    No one is asking for an apology. I have actually read articles by gay men online though with banner headlines asking this very question "Do we deserve to die?" and a detailing of continuing and pervasive unsafe sex practices around the world by men who know the dangers and still pass the disease along.....so all I'm saying is I don't think the question is meant to be taken so personally or should be out of the realm of discussion.....It is terrible when anyones friend dies, I've had friends die as well, but presumably they weren't putting anyone else's life at risk either.

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