The Gay Marriage Controversy

How do you feel about gay marriage?

  • I feel it is wrong and should be banned.

    Votes: 62 26.1%
  • I feel homosexual couples should have the same rights as heterosexual couples.

    Votes: 152 63.9%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 24 10.1%

  • Total voters
    238
Reply to a PM I received from Antifederalist

Antifederalist said:
Right now, marriage is between man and woman either by law and/or value system. By allowing gay people to claim life partners and call it marriage is what people are against.

Since when does marriage bind people for life ? Are divorces also banned in the US ? Actually, I though the US had the higher divorce rate in the world.

This wouldn't be an issue of state if gov't hadn't decided to use marriage as a basis to tax us on.

Don't civil union act the same way as marriage for tax rebates ? Anyway, is it better to have a gay and a lesbian getting married for a tax rebate, while having sex with somebody else ?

After all, to most Americans, marriage is the union of man and woman before God (where man and woman become one flesh--this really shows when a man and woman have sex there's a really good chance a baby will come about, making the concept of one flesh tangible)--not Uncle Sam.

In Europe there is no legal difference between having a child while being married or not being married.

To me, I think homosexuality is immoral and is a sin.

How could it be a sin when people are born like that ?
Please read this post of mine in this thread

I have no problems with civil unions and gays couples receiving the benefits that a married couple gets (to be able to claim the "spouse" as dependent, etc.) but for religious purposes, I do not want it called marriage.

But marriage on paper and the wedding ceremony at the church are completely different things. If the government bans gay marriage that will only be on paper, refraining them from having benfits. However, they CAN still marry at a church if that church accepts gay marriages (and some do). The goverment has no power to change the rules of religious organizations. Which is why I don't understand why American people want to block gays from social benefits by voting for Bush, knowing they can still get a religious marriage.
 
Newsflash: Homosexuality is a sin. Lots of behavior is "sinful." All sin is natural- as is death, bad gas, decay, and sitcoms that aren't funny. Every single person alive has sinned. It is human nature. (The whole point of Christianity is saving you from this nature.)

As for gay marriage. Making it legal won't make anyone gay. Making it illegal won't make anyone straight. So what if Carl and Bob want to wed? It doesn't bother me. It shouldn't concern me at all. (unless they forget to invite me.) Gay people have enough problems already without legalized discrimination. Isn't this country founded on some kind of freedom and liberty thing? Didn't someone say something about leting people do whatever floats their boat unless it adversely affects someone else. Can't we leave them alone?
 
What was said to Maciamo:

Antifederalist said:
To me, I think homosexuality is immoral and is a sin. But then don't we all live in sin?

Posted by Maciamo:

Antifederalist said:
To me, I think homosexuality is immoral and is a sin.

*edit:

The first quote, while many of you may still find it amazing people still talk about sin in such an enlightened age as this, makes me sound tolerant to homosexuality (which I am). For me to point a finger at them and yell 'Sinner!' would be hypocritical--which is what Maciamo tried to paint me as by leaving out the rest of what I said.

F*ck it, even though it was a PRIVATE message, I will post it here:
By saying "forced" on the populace didn't mean to force people to become gay and get married. What it meant is:

Right now, marriage is between man and woman either by law and/or value system. By allowing gay people to claim life partners and call it marriage is what people are against.

This wouldn't be an issue of state if gov't hadn't decided to use marriage as a basis to tax us on. After all, to most Americans, marriage is the union of man and woman before God (where man and woman become one flesh--this really shows when a man and woman have sex there's a really good chance a baby will come about, making the concept of one flesh tangible)--not Uncle Sam.

To me, I think homosexuality is immoral and is a sin. But then don't we all live in sin? I have no problems with civil unions and gays couples receiving the benefits that a married couple gets (to be able to claim the "spouse" as dependent, etc.) but for religious purposes, I do not want it called marriage.

Oh well, I guess I am still a troglodyte for even having religion and conservative values.

Have a great weekend.
 
Last edited:
sabro said:
Newsflash: Homosexuality is a sin.
How can it be a sin if it's not your choice? If I understand the concept of sin correctly, your god gave humans the opportunity to choose between good & evil. Since people are born homosexual, how can they choose?
 
Damn, I'm tired of gay folks. Go back into the closet, PLEASE!

That's how I feel.
 
december said:
Damn, I'm tired of gay folks. Go back into the closet, PLEASE!

That's how I feel.

First discriminations against asians, now against gays, you're on a roll buddy.
 
Since when I have a discriminated against Asians? Dude, you definitely don't know me. I love the Asian race.

Unfortunately, I do support homosexuals because I feel that it is wrong and unnatural. I do not, in any shape, form or fashion, discriminate against gays since I happen to personally know a few gay people. In fact, my road dog from high school happens to gay. It was a shock, yes - it was, but I'm not the type of person to abandon my friends because of their sexuality.

However, I do not support their chosen lifestyle.
 
december said:
Since when I have a discriminated against Asians? Dude, you definitely don't know me. I love the Asian race.

Unfortunately, I do support homosexuals because I feel that it is wrong and unnatural. I do not, in any shape, form or fashion, discriminate against gays since I happen to personally know a few gay people. In fact, my road dog from high school happens to gay. It was a shock, yes - it was, but I'm not the type of person to abandon my friends because of their sexuality.

However, I do not support their chosen lifestyle.
sounds like that run-of-the-mill excuse people that are accused of being racist use "I'm not racist, I have a black friend!" uh-huh... sure.

but you know, damn, I'm tired of you! get off the internet, PLEASE!

... I'm not discriminating against you. I have friends that aren't too bright! in fact, my friend from high school turned out to be quite the dope.
 
december said:
Since when I have a discriminated against Asians? Dude, you definitely don't know me. I love the Asian race.

Since when? Since the other thread you said that Asians shouldn't be allowed, shouldn't, and can't rap. You love the asian race alright, as long as they are doing what you stereotype them to do, and don't cross over into things that are, in your mind, specially reserved for other races.

december said:
Unfortunately, I do support homosexuals because I feel that it is wrong and unnatural. I do not, in any shape, form or fashion, discriminate against gays since I happen to personally know a few gay people. In fact, my road dog from high school happens to gay. It was a shock, yes - it was, but I'm not the type of person to abandon my friends because of their sexuality.

However, I do not support their chosen lifestyle.

You know a couple of gay people? Wow, I'm sorry.. I didn't know.. I was wrong about you..
 
TwistedMac said:
but you know, damn, I'm tired of you! get off the internet, PLEASE!

You don't know me... :?

TwistedMac said:
... I'm not discriminating against you. I have friends that aren't too bright! in fact, my friend from high school turned out to be quite the dope.

That's hot. :eek:kashii:

King of Tokyo said:
You know a couple of gay people? Wow, I'm sorry.. I didn't know.. I was wrong about you..

I don't really sarcastic people either cause I'm sarcastic myself...

But...

Why is it so hard to accept people's opinion? If a white person dislikes all blacks based solely on their skin color, then I respect that person's OPINION. However, I do not support it.

If a person wants to be gay, then I respect that person's choice. However, I do not support it.

Hell, if a person wanted to jump off a mountain without a parachute, then I will accept his decision. However, I won't support it!

Does that make me racist? Does it me wrong? Does it make me deserving of a verbal (or in this case written) attack? And yes, I use the word attack because that's what it becomes when you throw in personal insults. It's ashame one can't fully enjoy a debate without having to be belittled by others.

Somebody, ANYBODY , explain to me because I don't understand, why do people have such a difficult time accepting someone elses opinion. If you disagree with me, fine. Say you disagree, state your reasons intelligently, and leave the childish and stupid insults elsewhere. Nothing pisses me off more than people who think they are right and anyone else who disagrees is wrong.

An opinion is just that - a view that is neither wrong nor right, a statement that is neither be true nor false.
 
december said:
You don't know me... :?
you don't know all gay people, yet you see fit to tell them to get back in the closet.

december said:
Why is it so hard to accept people's opinion? If a white person dislikes all blacks based solely on their skin color, then I respect that person's OPINION. However, I do not support it.

If a person wants to be gay, then I respect that person's choice. However, I do not support it.

Hell, if a person wanted to jump off a mountain without a parachute, then I will accept his decision. However, I won't support it!

Does that make me racist? Does it me wrong? Does it make me deserving of a verbal (or in this case written) attack? And yes, I use the word attack because that's what it becomes when you throw in personal insults. It's ashame one can't fully enjoy a debate without having to be belittled by others.

Somebody, ANYBODY , explain to me because I don't understand, why do people have such a difficult time accepting someone elses opinion. If you disagree with me, fine. Say you disagree, state your reasons intelligently, and leave the childish and stupid insults elsewhere. Nothing pisses me off more than people who think they are right and anyone else who disagrees is wrong.

An opinion is just that - a view that is neither wrong nor right, a statement that is neither be true nor false.
It's pretty hot how you compare being gay to racism and suicide. Smooth.
It's their opinion that they should get to get out of the closet, it's your opinion that they shouldn't and it's my opinion that you should stfu. all opinions...

you can't state your own opinion and the fact that you have every right to have it, and then get sad when someone else responds to it.
 
I may have mentioned something like this here previously, but in my mind, the only reason why gay marriage is controversial in the first place is because narrow minded and bigoted conservatives have made it so.

To anyone with even half a brain, the real enemy to the so-called institution of marriage are----GASP----heterosexuals! Between adulterers, abusers and polygamists, straights have done a bang up job of wrecking the sanctity of marriage, and have done so for decades. But is that ever mentioned by the holy rollers and the gutless politicians (like Bush) who are in their back pockets? Of course not. It's safer, not to mention easier to go after a soft target like gays and unfairly demonize them for everything that's gone wrong about marriage. To attack the real culprits harming marriage would be to admit that straights, not gays are the cause of all the problems, and that's something conservatives will never do.

America is supposed to be a land of inclusion, but conservatives and their Bible slanted agenda have made it a land of exclusion, denying rights to an entire class of people because some hackneyed book that's insanely out of step with today's world says so. People come in all colors and all mindsets, to shun one class of people because they don't jibe with the words in a book that turns people into mindless lemmings is just plain wrong. Gays should be allowed to marry if that's what they want. I mean really, where's the outrage in that?
 
december said:
An opinion is just that.
Er no.

An opinion is not _just_ an opinion if it is also, say, defaming, inciting racial hatred etc. At least in the UK 'an opinion' of that sort can be actionable in court.

Also saying "In my opinion 1 + 1 = 3" doesn't make you any less wrong and you shouldn't expect to not be told you're an idiot just because you precede idiotic statments with "In my opinion".
 
I just now discovered this thread, so I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. I think a lot of the controversy surrounding gay marriage is due to bigotry, hatred and fear of homosexuals. That said, though, I don't think that that's the only reason why people oppose gay marriage. Obviously the very religious people in this country are tolerant of gays or else we'd have laws similar to other religiously dominated countries which imprison or execute homosexuals. We don't do that too much here. I know they tried that in Texas, but well, that's Texas. In Texas you can be pro-life and still execute retarded people (for murder).

I think a lot of people are opposed to gay marriage because, for them, it will change the very definition of marriage. Marriage, in most all human societies, has always been between a man and a (one or more) woman/women. In allowing gays to have a "marriage" ceremony, we are changing a tradition much older than slavery, racism, subjagation of women and other long held traditions, and lots of people are uncomfortable with that - even people who aren't bible thumpers.

However, for the life of me, I can't see why tolerant people would be against allowing homosexuals to obtain civil unions and get the same rights that heteros have. The only reason I can see to deny them those basic rights and responsibilities is, sadly, fear, hatred and ignorance.

Eventually, we're going to run into a freedom of religion thing here. There are at least a few religions which would gladly marry gays if allowed. The Unitarian Universalists come to mind. By denying the Unitarians from marrying gays, we're denying them a bit of their religious freedom. The Universal Life Church will grant ministerial status to anyone, regardless of their religious beliefs (as long as they agree to a very basic and mild moral agreement) and many of those ministers (who have full legal rights to marry people in every state) would gladly marry gays as well.

Society is changing quicker than the moral conservatives like. Eventually, the moral conservatives (who are now in power) will have to chose whether to remain tolerant or turn our country into repressive theocracy. I'm betting on tolerance.
 
It's genetic. It's as simple as that. If you want to call anything a sin call your hate a sin. Bisexuality is not genetic. Hating someone because they are homosexual is like hating a black man because he is black. You can't hate people because their DNA came out the way it did. You can dislike the immoral sins they create against others, such as adultry,necrophilia,pedophilia. I find it very stupid for many Christians to have hate against homosexuals. I think abortion is a greater issue than homosexuality.

I have known many homosexual people. Funny enough when I run across them they are very intelligent. They know a hell of a lot more than I do which makes me wonder why they have a great intelligence. Perhaps it's because they need a greater intelligence to be respected in this world because they are not respected enough like regular people.

I do find problems with many people who are bisexual though. I find a lot of the time they have something wrong in their head. Many of them like children. I knew a bisexual female who was 19 and liked 13 year olds. I have known a bisexual who was into necrophilia. That is one of the sickest things I have known.


I find that many people who actually come bisexual because of abusive males or their past of abuse from people(childhood). There was this singer I once knew from New York. She had been ganged raped and treated wrongly by her crackhead father. She may have had an attraction to men, but she was only shown a completely negative image of man growing up. Thus she met her girlfriend Star and they have been dating ever since. Which makes you wonder if she is actually bi-sexual, or else homosexual.

Is this a sin? Is it a sin to decide against or to ignore part of the human race because you have been treated wrongly by it, or else you feel no attachment to it? People do that everyday.

In truth, I can't judge on such issues. Nor should anyone else. For we are just people, living a life, and trying to obtain some happiness through it.

Although, I would like to say lots of people come out cold 13itches in the end because they can't have what they want.
 
I don't think there's ever been any conclusive evidence that shows that homosexuality is a genetic trait. If you have a link to some, I'd be interested in reading it. Even if we agree momentarily that homosexuality is purely a choice, then I still can't see why people have such a hard time with dealing with it. It's just a different choice.

Part of the problem with Moral Conservatism is that a lot of the things they are against are things that are victimless. As long as a homosexual relationship is voluntary between both partners then no one is getting hurt - no one's freedom is being impeded.

Other examples of victimless "crimes" that Moral Conservatives want to stop:

Sale of sex toys is illegal in many states - where's the victim. Oh my god! Sally may have an orgasm ALL BY HERSELF! We can't have that! In fact, we'd rather pretend Sally can't even have one. Sex is just a procreative duty.

Orgies, swinger's clubs, etc. - where's the victim?

Pornography - this is a bit trickier, because some women have been coerced into entering the world of smut, but by far the majority are volunteers. Now, if a man knows he has a sexually transmitted disease and he continues performing in pornography, then, yeah - that seems like a crime.

Something much simpler - riding a motorcycle without a helmet - where's the victim? Seat belt laws - the same thing. Do we need to be protected from ourselves? If so, why?

There is an argument that if the majority of people in one area feel something should be forbidden then it's ok for them to forbid it. This however, still abridges personal freedom. I would rather be free and live with other people doing things I find distasteful than put them in jail to take up space where real criminals should be.
 
If you don't think it's genetic, then it must be psychological, whichever the case it's embedded into people at a young age. Most people i've spoken to who became/were homosexual actually learned it through childhood. They would begin to notice more and more they were attracted to the same sex. If this is not genetic, then it must be psychological. But the thing is many of them have never had cruel abuse or a cruel past. Sure you can say homosexuality is by choice because all beings have free will, but I think it's embedded into you before you come out of the womb. If it's not, there would be a lot of interesting universal factors that come into play to make a person homosexual.
 
Fantt said:
Something much simpler - riding a motorcycle without a helmet - where's the victim? Seat belt laws - the same thing.

I think here the victim is the average taxpayer, who has to foot the bill because of someone else's irresponsible acts. At least I've heard that smoking raises health care costs for everyone, so I would assume that it would be the same for the cases that you mentioned.
 
Kamisama said:
If you don't think it's genetic, then it must be psychological, whichever the case it's embedded into people at a young age. Most people i've spoken to who became/were homosexual actually learned it through childhood. They would begin to notice more and more they were attracted to the same sex. If this is not genetic, then it must be psychological. But the thing is many of them have never had cruel abuse or a cruel past. Sure you can say homosexuality is by choice because all beings have free will, but I think it's embedded into you before you come out of the womb. If it's not, there would be a lot of interesting universal factors that come into play to make a person homosexual.

Kami, at any moment I can choose to be homosexual or not. I decide for myself what I find sexually stimulating at any given time. When we get down to it, an orgasm is an orgasm. Why do people have to be so obsessed with labels?

I didn't say that homosexuality wasn't genetic. I said that I didn't think there was any conclusive evidence which supported that thought.

Again, it's amusing to me that we have to be so obsessed with something which boils down to with whom would you like to make the silly face.

Glenn said:
I think here the victim is the average taxpayer, who has to foot the bill because of someone else's irresponsible acts. At least I've heard that smoking raises health care costs for everyone, so I would assume that it would be the same for the cases that you mentioned.

Instead of outlawing riding a motorcycle without a helmet, why not have a law requiring riders who choose to be less safe to carry more insurance? That way, those rider's freedom is less restricted while also saving taxpayers.

When government tells you that you can not do something, it's backing up that demand with potentially lethal force. I don't think coercing people into doing things for their own good (when such things involve no one else) is conducive to a free society.
 
Oh noooo, this thread opened up again.
*sigh another pandora's box this is.

What is there 2 discuss, why can't we all just mind our damm business and not care what people want to as long as they are happy and dont hurt other people. If gay people want to get married, they have my blessing, it has nothing to do with me, they don't affect me, they should be allowed to be happy like the rest of us. Marriage between man and a woman is sacred. YEAH RIGHT, not now it is, ppl get married, cheat break up, bak together, divorce, leave their familes and what not. Hardly anything sacred. Just because you choose some priest to tell you that you are now married, it doesnt mean that you have something sacred. I mean c'mon its the 21 first century, I can't beleive we have to sit here and discuss such stupid issues that are made out of nothing. People are gay,that's just the way it is, just you look at your own life and worry about saving yourself from hell or whatever you beleive and let others beleive in their own salvation. Life is too short to argue about things that are made into an issue uncesarily. You beleive god gondems gay ppl? Fine go to church and pray for them, but dont try to forcefully save them.

that's my 2 cents on the issue, not directed at anyone in particular, just basic stuff.
 

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