Animals Meet Your Meat

[Thunderthief]

Would you really want to eat animals that live and are treated like that though? Would you really want to eat animal that has been pumped full of chemicals and hormones, covered in untreated ulcers/fungal deseases and parasites?
Do you have any pets?

Its all clean when it comes out, and im sure if I wind up dying from it my next of ken will get a large cash settlement from it anyway, not that its going to happen.

I work on my grandpa's farm during the summer, sorry if the video doesnt "touch" me because I do it myself first hand. All they show you in this video is the sick and injured ones, and from first hand experience working on the farm there usually pretty healthy.

This video is full of gross exadurations, and stuffed corporate conditions, most family run farms take much better care of there animals than that... hell we even feed our pigs and stuff candy to make them fatter. Our chickens have an open, outside caged area with plunty of grass and things to scruff around in, and the cattle have a large open pasture.

not our fault city people keep there animals in stuffed little boxes and beat them

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Its all clean when it comes out, and im sure if I wind up dying from it my next of ken will get a large cash settlement from it anyway, not that its going to happen.
I work on my grandpa's farm during the summer, sorry if the video doesnt "touch" me because I do it myself first hand. All they show you in this video is the sick and injured ones, and from first hand experience working on the farm there usually pretty healthy.
This video is full of gross exadurations, and stuffed corporate conditions, most family run farms take much better care of there animals than that... hell we even feed our pigs and stuff candy to make them fatter. Our chickens have an open, outside caged area with plunty of grass and things to scruff around in, and the cattle have a large open pasture.
not our fault city people keep there animals in stuffed little boxes and beat them

The video shows battery, intensive and barn range considitions and standard mass slaughthouse proceedure or slaughter within the farms themselves and a bit of market practice etc. To say

They are tastey when its all with over though... there sacrafice's are not in vein.

in a thread primarily about the video, suggests that you think the way those animals were treated was fine/a good cause. Your experience, if its anything good, is not the norm now days but more of a rarity in most places, so you really need to open your eyes beyond your grandfathers farm.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

Oh, this thread really has come to life again after a two year dormancy! I knew she had more life in her.

So much has been said since I last posted, it will take a while to catch up on everything, but I will.

Toqis made a lot of good points. Her and I aren`t too far off from each other on a lot of things, I can see.

 

[Thunderthief]

Well... there going to be eaten anyway. I dont understand why it matters what happens to them before hand. Don't get me wrong I don't approve of animal cruelity, but you beating your bacon, beating your steak and your chicken popers.

Why does it matter?

 

[strongvoicesforward]

We treat battery, barn range and intensively farmed animals incredibly inhumanely, like we are demons of hell.

Well said. It is true. To shove a number of hens into a cage so that they cannot even stretch their wings for the existance of their whole life, to continuosly frustrate them by not allowing them to exercise their natural desires of flapping in a dirt bath -- turns us into demons as they are tortured for our pleasure of palate and low price. Some are happy in their monstrocities -- I prefer to exercise mercy and compassion. Suffering matters to me.

But do i blame the farmers who do this...? No. Partly because you cannot blame people for not having morals, but mainly because its the governments fault, for legalising and seriously incouraging this way of farming, and also the consumer, who refuses to open their eyes.

I am of the thought all are guilty. Some a little more than others, but in the end it is the consumer who fuels the machine.

Macdonalds, sure it taste great, i used to eat it many years ago before i found out how badly many farm animals are treated, but where the heck to you think they get cheap animal products like that? Its all battery, intensive and barn range. I think the saying holds true, that you are what you eat- especially if you are aware of this and could afford not to eat it

It does make one heartless when they can`t opt to turn from a system that perpetuates heartlessness to creatures that suffer. It`s a small thing to do, but many are just indignant to think that their palate should come second to the suffering of an animal.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

Well... there going to be eaten anyway. I dont understand why it matters what happens to them before hand. Don't get me wrong I don't approve of animal cruelity, but you beating your bacon, beating your steak and your chicken popers.
Why does it matter?

Reminds me of the scene in Schindler`s list where the Jews are on the cattle car at the station sticking their hands out through the windows for water that was leaking from a nearby hose. They were all suffering in the box car`s stifling heat cram packed in it. The Nazis were all just sitting around and then up comes Schindler, grabbing the hose and spraying the water to those in the box car.

The Nazis just started laughing so hard at Schindler telling him to stop giving them hope and that they were all destined to death anyway so it just didn`t matter.

That is the argument of futility minus compassion for suffering. It is always wrong -- even when that suffering can be alleviated for a short time regardless of what the predetermined destiny is of those suffering.

 

[Reiku]

Well, there is a point to be made for the argument that if you're going to kill something you've already made the decision that it's rights are not important.

I'm not trying to say what's right and wrong--just that you should be consistant. If you don't value a given animal's rights--be it human or otherwise--then there's no need to show it consideration or mercy, you've already made that decision and chosen not to.

If however, you're killing something only because you feel your (or someone else's) needs outweigh it's own, then I can understand making it's death as painless as possible--and perhaps even pampering the thing prior to killing it.

I'm reminded of a woman I knew who's family kept pigs as pets, before slaughtering them for food. When she was a girl, she'd invite her freinds over for breakfast and then horrify them by pointing to the bacon on her plate and asking her mom "Is this Tasty or Sweety?" Those being the former names of the pet pigs who now occupied the family freezer.

 

[No-name]

Reiku I was going to say that you had a good point in answer to Thunderchief's "who cares what you do to your meat before you kill it?" I began to say that no one should name their meat like your friend did or beat their meat before killing it, but it sounded really really wrong.

 

[Reiku]

Yeah, I thought it was hillarious myself--but I'm a twistedly evil bastard.

What was really funny is that this woman is an almost sickeningly devout and goody-goody christian--we were in the parking lot of her church setting up for a band that was going to be playing there when she told the story.

It just goes to show that right and wrong really are in the eye of the beholder. She had no problem loving and caring for those pigs one day, and eating them the next, but I can't honestly say that she was evil or cruel or even misguided--she just had a different view of the matter than most people.

Look at it this way: If you've ever washed your hands with dial, you are a mass murderer who's killed millions of animals without a hint of regret or even a moment's thought for the lives you took.

But we don't think the lives of bacteria are important.

It's all in how you look at it, and everyone has their own perspective. Me, I think cows are the tastiest things on the planet, and don't particularly care if people have to die to get me a good cut of fillet mingion.

Seriously, you should see me in line for the teppan grill at Yanagi's. :evil:

 

[Thunderthief]

Theres nothing wrong with keeping them as pets before eating them, just some people get to attached... I had a hard time keeping my mother away from the rabbit cages, she would start naming them and throw a fit when it was time.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

Over 25 years he has had countless students come to him with the same exultations of conversion to vegetarianism after realizing the horrors of the meatpacking industry, only to slip back into those eating habits by the next term. He adjusted his curriculum to slowly acclimate his students to such truths to reduce the "oh my god how did i sign up for this hippy liberal ****" factor, and found a higher "success" rate of students willing to make geniune efforts toward cutting meat out of their diet.

Ok, Nice Gaijin, now I see what you were saying.

Oh, I completely agree with you that not "one thing" in particular is the best thing or way to cause something to "stick" (i.e. returning to eating flesh after trying to become a vegetarian). So, you are right, in that for many people, just the video (See here ---> " MEET YOUR MEAT ") would not be enough to keep them for falling back into eating meat. In that case, I am fully supportive of the professor`s way he goes about it in order to shore up a person`s resolve to stop consuming flesh.

Quiting cold turkey is hard. I, myself, took about 6 weeks to give it up. Gradually, little by little, I cut a different kind of meat out of my diet every week to 10 days. But, Peta`s video was one of the major forces that caused me to move to do so.

Personally, I find that there are behaviors that are constructive, and behaviors that are destructive. It seems that PETA wants to right the wrongs of humanity towards our animal neighbors, but even righteous motivation doesn't make for constructive behavior.

Nice Gaijin, while it is true PETA has not won total animal liberation, they have had many successes in lessening and alleviating cruelty and the suffering of animals. You aren`t going to deny that, are you? Have you followed news stories on them for the last 20 years? If not, then you are surely unaware of their successes.

As for their behavior, they are not perfect. They make mistakes. Any large org will do so and it is only inevitable that a million members will from time make make mistakes. As a whole though, they have been quite constructive with imparting the message of vegetarianism and winning court cases to stop animal cruelty. Furthermore, they have been a major influence with some clothing and food stores in convincing them to discontinue some products and demand that suppliers make kinder alternatives in how they raise and keep their livestock.

But, there is a lot still left to be done. We have not fooled ourselves on that count.

 

[Reiku]

I'm going to deny that PETA has had success in alleviating animal suffering:

For every cow, chicken, or pig they save, there's a hundred omnivorous humans they've tortured with their continuous attacks on our beleifs and our way of life.

You can try to belittle the harm that this does, but the psychological damage inflicted by such hotile bigotry is immense. PETA is trying to wipe my kind from the face of the earth, that they prefer means more subtle and indirect than a execution camps is small consolation.

Do you know how it feels, to know that there is a powerful group of people who are opposed to your very existance? That they will turn your children against you, pass laws against your way of life, pressure and attack those who support you? And even worse, knowing that that the majority of people--even if they don't agree with that group--don't see anything wrong with what the group is doing?

It's like anti-semitism, or the more recent push against homosexuals--and it is completely disgusting to me.

Listen to your words, SVF. Compare them to the speeches of the Nazi's, filled with pride and admiration for their shining goal of wiping out a group of people whose beliefs were different to theirs.

At least the Nazi's had the courage to fight and risk their lives in battle for what they believed--while PETA sits in safety and comfort, striking from a distance through laws and manipulations of public opinion.

If you want to remove me from the world, pick up a sword--and take your chances.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

But we don't think the lives of bacteria are important.

Reductionist argument that supports the "Why bother?" line of thought based on futility.

Dismissed.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

I'm going to deny that PETA has had success in alleviating animal suffering:
For every cow, chicken, or pig they save, there's a hundred omnivorous humans they've tortured with their continuous attacks on our beleifs and our way of life.

Exageration does little to convince -- but it does lead to chuckles.

Peta has clearly had many successes at helping animals. I will discuss some in the future, but if you can`t wait then please go to PETA yourself to see.

You can try to belittle the harm that this does, but the psychological damage inflicted by such hotile bigotry is immense. PETA is trying to wipe my kind from the face of the earth, that they prefer means more subtle and indirect than a execution camps is small consolation.

Funny!

We are not trying to "wipe your kind from the face of the earth," -- just your eating habits and view of animal usage. You are still permitted to exist as a human -- which is the "kind" of animal you are.

Do you know how it feels, to know that there is a powerful group of people who are opposed to your very existance?

lol. Oh man! I just can`t stop. I am laughing so hard that I feel like I am watching an episode of The Family Guy.

Anyways...to use your verbage...

Do you know how it feels to know that there is a powerful group of people who are opposed to you not being a target for digestion, exploitation, and testing?

Jews most certainly do in the category of the latter two. There is a disportortionate number of Jews in the Animal Liberation movement compared to other ethnic/religio groups. Perhaps their history as a group targeted for exploitaton causes many of them to empathise and join the movement. Yes, they know how it feels and have been raised on stories of how it feels.

That they will turn your children against you,...

Then you haven`t been very convincing in teaching your values to your children.

...pass laws against your way of life,...

Hey, that`s democracy. Gotta love it.

...pressure and attack those who support you?

Never good to reinvent the wheel. Use what history has shown us to be successful with. Perhaps those targeted shouldn`t cave so easily to continue encouraging future tactics that they give the message as being effective. Why don`t they be martyres and go down for what they believe in? Perhaps they don`t really believe in it -- they just believe in the profit of it up until the heat in the kitchen causes a little uncomfortableness.

And even worse, knowing that that the majority of people--even if they don't agree with that group--don't see anything wrong with what the group is doing?

Because an inner voice in the majority of the people may be telling then that the group is right. Either that, or they are blind to the agitation for change or apathy has a hold on them. We benefit from all that.

It's like anti-semitism, or the more recent push against homosexuals--and it is completely disgusting to me.

Not at all. The AR movement is one which is seeking to win rights for animals -- extending those rights that do not impose upon integrity of body. The Jews' bodies definitely had their integrity violated.

PETA has almost 1 million people as members. I am sure there are many homosexuals amongst their members. I don`t think they feel PETA is putting forth anything like something that is denying rights to them -- except in convincing the public to give up meat or to legislate slowly and surely against the corporations that proffit from blood.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

Listen to your words, SVF. Compare them to the speeches of the Nazi's, filled with pride and admiration for their shining goal of wiping out a group of people whose beliefs were different to theirs.

Innacurrate analogy. The Nazis have decided to cleanse their race and rid the world of Jews through extermination. Where has PETA ever talked about exterminating the flesh eaters?

btw, are you getting warmed up and ready to call me a Nazi like you did on the hunting thread and hope for animals to rip me to pieces -- in effect causing the discussion and thread to be locked? I would hope this time that Admin/mod action is targeted accurately at you by having that post you are tempted to make deleted, if in fact it does come about, rather than punishing the whole thread by locking it.

Please practice discipline with your language of direct accusations, Reiku. I can handle things if you want to cleverly insinuate or allude to things, but I don`t appreciate the pro-noun "You" followed by words for wishing violence upon me or calling me names pajoratively.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

At least the Nazi's had the courage to fight and risk their lives in battle for what they believed--while PETA sits in safety and comfort, striking from a distance through laws and manipulations of public opinion.

Well, at least we know who you admire more between the two. I will choose to sit down to the dinner or negotiation table with PETA any day over the Nazis. I think most sane people would.

If you want to remove me from the world, pick up a sword--and take your chances.

lol. No, Reiku, you are quite welcome to stay amongst us in the world. But, we would prefer you change your view on animals. PETA is not seeking you out for a sword fight.

However, if you are so attracted to such a duel with animal rightists, I would suggest you make yourself available at some of the demonstrations they show up for. You will find they are not all skinny hippy push overs like you have them out to be in your mind. They may take you up on your bravado. I recommend you find your nearest chapter of The Animal Defense League, WAR, or if possible, The Justice Department -- all groups which have been very up front with their leanings towards direct confrontation -- the latter being the most viseral of them and probably the ones most accomadating to your wishes -- if you can find them.

But as far as PETA members go, we have an official policy of being peaceful while under the PETA banner.

 

[Thunderthief]

The way you compair the jewish race to animals constantly obviously shows your lack of respect for them. Animals aren't in any way equal to humans, and never will be, they merely exist for human convenience and food.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

The way you compair the jewish race to animals constantly obviously shows your lack of respect for them.

Not at all. In fact, some Jews who have great respect for their own religio/ethncity also make the comparison of how their race was treated by the Nazis and how animals are often treated.

How do you know I am not of Jewish decent? Because you don`t, you need not focus on me.

Animals aren't in any way equal to humans, and never will be,...

It is not about equality. I for one don`t think cats have the equal right to free speech -- merely because they CAN`T. But, they can suffer. It is about not causing suffering.

...they merely exist for human convenience and food.

Most people do hold that view. However, a growing number of people are abandoning that view and laws and legislation protecting them are increasing.

Don`t sound so indignant that animals are getting more and more consideration to them by people -- and the courts ruling in favor of law suits and prosecutions brought about on their behalf. <snicker snicker>

Looks like the courts are not fully agreeing with you. Slowly but surely, a change of direction in the wind will come about, and in fact it is coming about.

You know how valley rivers are, don`t you? They start as trickles of melting snow high up in the mountains, almost imperceptible as moving water as it slowly finds its way down the mountain into small streams seeking out larger and larger ones until it finally ends up in the valley as raging torrents.

Welcome to the world of Animal Liberation. You should educate yourself on it to understand the undercurrents and movements that are taking place so that you can speak accurately against it as an informed participant.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

Do you know how it feels, to know that there is a powerful group of people who are opposed to your very existance? That they will turn your children against you, pass laws against your way of life, pressure and attack those who support you? And even worse, knowing that that the majority of people--even if they don't agree with that group--don't see anything wrong with what the group is doing?
It's like anti-semitism, or the more recent push against homosexuals--and it is completely disgusting to me.

I think this comparison is unfair - PETA are not trying to kill off meat-eaters, just change their beliefs and lifestyle. IMO, a better comparision would be religious missionaries - who also seek to change your beliefs and lifestyle - using some similar methods, such as campaigning for legislation, handing out literature, and preaching on street corners.

 

[strongvoicesforward]

As shocking as the video is, i've seen worse.

I would hate to see worse, seeing how bad the video is (Seen HERE). But, I do take your word for it.

Cows have it worse now days with the invention of " 0 grazing". "sigh"...But those are all factory, barn range and intensive farmed animals.

All true, Toqis.

The thing is though, nearly 80% of all meat that makes it to market for consumption is factory farmed. And that is what allows for the cheap prices at the supermarket -- and even at the butchers'. While many people will give lip service to saying they buy non-cruelty farmed animals, the fact of the matter is, the economics of the situation is showing us that factory farms are on the rise and the family farm is on decline.

One should never even entertain the thought that the 'not too expensive' steak or hamburger they have while out was brought to their table without considerable suffering throughout the animal`s life. If one is a regular flesh eater and is not careful about choosing free range animals for their dinners at home, in all probability one is supporting a very cruel life and death for animals.