Suicide

[dark for tears]

What do you think about suicide?

[Mandylion]

Okay, JREF has had some problems with these types of thread in the past.
However, this could be a great thread on the topic of mortality across cultures and how societies deal with suicide. With that in mind -

Here are the rules - break them and your post will be deleted or the thread erased.

1) Do not discuss how to kill yourself.

2) Do not discuss what would push you to suicide. You do not want to be the person who gave someone the idea/rationalization.

3) Keep the discussion polite

4) Keep things on a theoretical level - ie discuss the factors in society that might make someone feel they should kill themselves and/or why this is good or bad for society (for example).

5) If you are thinking about suicide beyond an intellectual level, please, get help from someone ASAP.

6) Don't bring your problems with you to this thread.

The above in not negotiable. If you have a beef, take it to another forum. The staff reserve the right at any time to add more or modify this thread or things posted in it to remain appropriate...

[Morfos]

I think its horribly sad. People that commit suicide can be nice, but had terrible lives all thanks to popular bullies who pick on them. If a kid commits suicide, bullies should be punished.

[RockLee]

I personally think it is the stupidest thing one ever can do...and is because you lack self-respect...no one should commit suicide just because someone bullies you or you think your life sucks...you get help and deal with it!!!!

[mad pierrot]

Seppuku, harakiri? (sp?)

Is it odd to kill yourself for "honor"? Japanese students seem to like the idea, it would seem. Wouldn't it be more honorable to live and make up for any mistakes? On the other hand, the tale of the 47 ronin is certainly something else...

[RockLee]

Well....there is a difference between FOR YOUR COUNTRY,FOR HONOR or just because the fact you hate your life/are being bullied !! The first ones are part of a culture!!! The others are dumb reasons and won't benifit somebody else

[mad pierrot]

the Last Samurai I think they went a little overboard with the ritual suicide. There were too many cliches in the movie to begin with. Interestingly enough, before I saw that movie I read Bushido by Inazo Nitobe. I heard Tom Cruise carried a copy of that around with him on the set.

[den4]

think it's sad that somebody would get to the stage where they believe this action is the only possible thing left to do.

Know in our current modern society, even in Japan, there are hotlines to help those inclined towards this action, but far too many times, the individuals or groups, feel they have no other choice left to them....and that's the sad part....

what I do object to are the idiot folks who have gone to these internet sites for this activity, as if it's some kind of social event, like going to a party, and they do this activity, like it's a game or something....those folks need help....

[DoctorNO]

What about killing yourself for your religious beliefs? Like the Heaven's Gate UFO cult. Like the muslim suicide bombers. Those people died with smile. No regrets. Heaven is waiting on the otherside while leaving the earth in great honors as a martyr.

[Frank D. White]

Watching so many people die in terrible pain, soooo
slow and painful a death!! I feel if some one has a terminal illness that will lead to a long lingering death
that will be painful for the person and the loved ones
around him; suicide should be an option.
Not quite as clear to me, is an older person who has no one left around him. Although not dying, their life consists of just sitting around waiting for death to take them; they hate life and want to die, should they be able to commit suicide, maybe?

Frank

[chiquiliquis]

I personally think it is the stupidest thing one ever can do...and is because you lack self-respect...

I am reminded of Jean Paul Sartre, and his famous line in "No Exit": ...Hell is other people.

Stupid is a subjective term. There have been many an intellectual who, through their own logic, have deemed life short and nasty (Hobbes), and perhaps not all that worth lving. What is the first noble truth in Buddhism...?--life is suffering! (In no way suggesting Buddhism holds suicide as a value). But the truth is, there is a world of despair out there; Humanity is capable of being extraordiarily ugly.

Despair doesn't hit "common sense". It strikes much much lower than that.

Who are we to put a value on someone's life...? Most of us have problems with saying: you are worth 'X', and that guy over there is worth 'X+1'. We object to these kinds of valuations. Why would we get so uptight, then, when the equation becomes '-X'

[RockLee]

Watching so many people die in terrible pain, soooo
slow and painful a death!! I feel if some one has a terminal illness that will lead to a long lingering death
that will be painful for the person and the loved ones
around him; suicide should be an option.
Not quite as clear to me, is an older person who has no one left around him. Although not dying, their life consists of just sitting around waiting for death to take them; they hate life and want to die, should they be able to commit suicide, maybe?

Frank

It is true that maybe in this case IF the person him/herself wants it because of an incurable illness, the person doesn't deserve to suffer his whole life

As far as them suicide-bombers....they are just a bunch of brainwashed retards...I call their religion a HOAX...created by some powerhungry goons who liked to dominate women and think THEIR OWN religion is THE ONLY GOOD ONE??? Pleaaaaaase!!! Pathetic!!!!

[dark for tears]

Okay, JREF has had some problems with these types of thread in the past.
However, this could be a great thread on the topic of mortality across cultures and how societies deal with suicide. With that in mind -

Here are the rules - break them and your post will be deleted or the thread erased.

1) Do not discuss how to kill yourself.

2) Do not discuss what would push you to suicide. You do not want to be the person who gave someone the idea/rationalization.

3) Keep the discussion polite

4) Keep things on a theoretical level - ie discuss the factors in society that might make someone feel they should kill themselves and/or why this is good or bad for society (for example).

5) If you are thinking about suicide beyond an intellectual level, please, get help from someone ASAP.

6) Don't bring your problems with you to this thread.

The above in not negotiable. If you have a beef, take it to another forum. The staff reserve the right at any time to add more or modify this thread or things posted in it to remain appropriate...

Ooops <_<

I am sorry. I posted those questions originally on a few other forums and stuff. I wasn't really talking about a personal problem, just curious I guess.

If I had known, I wouldn't have posted the thread *smacks herself for not reading the rules*

[-Yu-]

I had a bad experience when I was in a junior high school.
The guy who used to be my friend and was in the same school sport club started disliking me. As he had been expressing that he hates me in many ways, I gradualy started to hate him as well cause what he did was so nasty such as saying some things to encourage other members in the club or other students in the same school to dislike me and on every single weekends he hangs around with people in the sport club. Since my close friends were almost only them, it was pain in the ass cause the sport club was really strict we practiced everyday except for Sundays therefore we members in the club didn't hang with others.Since then my school life became so $h!t....

This situation lasted for almost 1 year and afterward he kind of started to be normal,,I don't know why he stopped it and can't even remember why he started.

It wasn't that bad that I would've had to suicide, but definitely it was one of worst things in my life. Since my parents are school teachers in my house there are books about school kids who were bullied.I read some. Their situations were completely filled with bad experiences that they couldn't think of anything but of dying.
Before I read those books I had been thinking that suicide is what loosers who can't solve their own problems do but it isn't the matter of people who suicided, it is the matter of people who bullied them and the teachers who don't think of bullying as serious problem.

I'll tell you one big exmple to you guys, this may be slightly different from the original one and may include things which don't really make sense to you due to my English level but basicaly it's same. I read this on some book.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
One male student was being "asked" to "lend" money to others in some school and he did without thinking deeply. They kept "asking" and the amount of money they "asked"
him to "lend" was gradualy getting bigger and the student couldn't get any of money back that he lent to them. Although he asked them to give it back to him, they didn't besides they asked him for more promising him to do a few days later. He thought he had to say " I can't" and said it from his mouth to them then they started beating him up till he said he gives money to them.
He asked his teacher for advice or to stop them doing it but he didn't take his story seriously and he even said " Even if it's true, if you tell them bravely that you won't pay anymore, they'll stop", the teacher didn't do anything particular other than saying this.
From the day, his life became hell and he started stealing money from his parents wallets so that he could give them because the amount of money they asked for was too high for hime to pay by himself.

One day, their parents noticed that their son was stealing their money so they asked him why he was doing it and they knew their son had been bllied by them. They started to tell this to school to solve this problem but they didn't believe it assuming that their son was over-telling.

The parents decided to let him change the school to the other and he did.
The students who were "asking" him for money found out which school he was going to at that time and his life went same way as before again and one day his parents found him hung with a rope around his neck in his room as well as his testament which said he felt sorry for stealing a lot of money, detais of Bullying to him, what he had been feeling and so on.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't remember how much money exactly he gave bullies, but I think it was neary 150万円　which is about USD13,000 and AUD18,000( I didn't caluculate properly besides the money-exchanging rate was very different cause this incident happened almost 10 years ago.

If you can read Japanese this site would be nice to know a glimpse of Bullying in Japan.

http://www.oita-med.ac.jp/pediatrics/ijime.html

I forgot to put the website's address

[RockLee]

Djeeses man, that's a sad sad story .... they should punish them kids...
Oh man...ONE thing I know is that KIDS can be cruel bastards !!

[Mandylion]

There is a very good article in the online New York Times today about the US state of Oregon's suicide law. You may have to register to read the full article, but it is free, and they don't spam your account.

"In Oregon, Choosing Death Over Suffering" June 2nd, 2004, Science
http://www.nytimes.com/pages/science/index.html

[MShingen]

I don't know why but people nowadays like to turn to suicide. They treated suicide as "ultimate way of solving their problems". It was the fastest way of removing themselves from their own problems.

However, they did not think of the after effects of suicide. They did not think of how their family members or their friends will feel. The sorrow, the saddness for their lost of that person. Suicide is one of the most irresponsible act and should never come accross anybody's mind. They should be brave and stand up and face the problem and find a way to overcome it, not to run away from it by committing suicide.

[nekosasori]

While I tend to share the Western views concerning suicide (and I've also lost three friends to suicide, mainly in university), I can also appreciate the cultural values where suicide seems like a reasonable (if tragic) option. Yes, family and acquaintances may mourn someone who's taken his or her life, but say the deceased had been in a position of great responsibility and had made a huge mistake that cost the livelihoods of thousands of employees and their families? It's a lot easier to "take responsibility" and to minimize the shame and resentment that one's loved ones feel, by (ideally) just resigning, but suicide is just one (albeit drastic) step further. The combination of fatalism (shikata ga nai) and of taking shame and personal accountability very seriously, to the point where your descendants can't outlive the shame brought upon the family by their predecessors... well, it's understandable to me why those suicides happen.

Haven't there been recent news of mass suicides being organized online in Japan? That makes me feel very sad and angry. But each person's circumstances are unique, and one can't generalize that those around someone would always feel devastated after his or her death, whether it be accidental, health-related, or caused deliberately.

[Duo]

Personally I dont think that suicide is the solution. The world we live is not a pretty place, in fact some people do actually live in hell already. The will to live is so great that it can help one overcome any kind of situation. Just to mention, Nelson Mandela locked in jail for so many years, he still kept on living and believing. Also, in Eastern Europe during Communism, there were people persecuted to extremities of great magnitude, however they made it through. To mind comes also the jews in concentration camps that made it out alive. If people in such conditions made it out alive and sane, then people should be able to deal with bullying in school, failing entrance exams, loosing someone etc. For me the issue is simple. For all we know, we may only live once, so why cut that short?

[suzu]

It surprises me how many different kinds of people can be suicidal. Alot of my friends have been suicidal, 3 of them have been hospitalized at one point or another. One friend was in a total lock down for 3 months, we didn't know what had happened to her and we were worried alot. We thought that she had succeded because no had heard from her. Thank goodness she is ok, we would all miss her.
Another totally surprised because she was so cheery, she was never sad around any of us. She was so normal that none of us suspected anything. She is ok now too, I'm really glad that none of them actually went through with it.

[den4]

some recent info:
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click...6B215&set_id=1

(I've copied the info from the link below, because it requires registration soon, and the article may go bye-bye....
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/...?oneclick=true
Japan's record suicide rate
June 11, 2004 - 4:47PM
More Japanese committed suicide last year than ever before as poor economic conditions drove greater numbers to end their own lives, the government said today.

Suicides rose 7.1 per cent to 32,082 in 2003 from 29,949 the year before, the Health Ministry said. It was the sixth leading cause of death after cancer, heart disease and other illnesses.

Japan's economy has started to rebound in recent years amid rising exports to Asia, but years of sluggish growth have lifted unemployment and forced large numbers into personal bankruptcy.

Suicide was the leading cause of death among men in their 50s, a population segment disproportionately affected by corporate restructuring.

"Men in their 50s are probably the hardest hit by unemployment and economic slump," said Tsutomu Ishiyama, a ministry official in charge of the statistics.

Suicide also was the No 1 cause of death among those in their 20s and 30s, the age groups that are less likely to die from illnesses, he said.

Overall, men accounted for nearly three-quarters of suicides.


and although the tabloid source makes you take it with a grain of sugar, this guy seems like he deserves the honorary Incompetence award: http://www.despair.com/demotivators/incompetence.html
http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/waiwai/fac...1kubozuka.html
maybe he just wants attention...

[sadakoyamamura]

Watching so many people die in terrible pain, soooo
slow and painful a death!! I feel if some one has a terminal illness that will lead to a long lingering death
that will be painful for the person and the loved ones
around him; suicide should be an option.
Not quite as clear to me, is an older person who has no one left around him. Although not dying, their life consists of just sitting around waiting for death to take them; they hate life and want to die, should they be able to commit suicide, maybe?

Frank

Euthanasia, is it equivalent to suicide?

It surprises me how many different kinds of people can be suicidal. Alot of my friends have been suicidal, 3 of them have been hospitalized at one point or another. One friend was in a total lock down for 3 months, we didn't know what had happened to her and we were worried alot. We thought that she had succeded because no had heard from her. Thank goodness she is ok, we would all miss her.
Another totally surprised because she was so cheery, she was never sad around any of us. She was so normal that none of us suspected anything. She is ok now too, I'm really glad that none of them actually went through with it.

A friend of mine is a posthumus baby... Up to now he still thinks his father is stupid because he committed suicide. I used to be suicidal that from my teens to my early twenties. I'm now in my late twenties but I'm ok. Oh boy, it was a tough battle but I found out that surrounding myself with happy thoughts, having wonderful friends and improving myself helped me a lot!!

[Eternal Wind]

I think that suicide is just a form of escaping from reality...very bad...

[Hachiko]

Suicide is the last thing you want to do with yourself. The first thing you should do, always, and forever hold your dove, is believe in yourself, and roll with the punches, not choose to suffer from them.

*incantates Saint Sakaki Anderson of Daiodelphia to protect those who have suicidal thoughts*

[Vengeful Ronin]

Suicide is pretty bad. It's horrible for someone to go through suicidal feelings (like i did), but in retrospect it's selfish. You want to end your life because of your pain, but you don't bother to think of the pain your death will cause others. Sadly, most people in depression cannot see this. It's horrible for anyone to go through depression and suicidal feelings, and I try to help those that do.