A pagan nation with pretentious manners

[Tonysoong]

The Japanese are largely an oriental pagan nation who admire civilised nations and would do their best to imitate them, which is nothing bad in itself.

In ancient times, the Japanese imitated the Chinese though they now have turned their back on the oriental civilisation. In modern times, the Japanese turned to imitate the west and successfully industrialised their country, which is a good thing in itself.

But unlike the Americans and the Europeans who developed their humanistic ring in their Christian culture(s), the Japanese as a pagan oriental nation who think of their own past as humble and even shameful, chose to split with its own past and to imitate the westerners. In the meantime, they view other oriental nations and cultures as inferior. That's why the Japanese tend to treat other oriental nations as barbarians in a barbaric manner while in the meanwhile behaving themselves in front of westerners in a humble and elaborated civilised manner.

Anyhow, the Japanese have never gone beyond imitation. And the Japanese civilisation can be regarded as a civilisation of imitations which is devoid of its humanistic core.

This core can only be achieved through digestion of what they have imitated, either oriental or western, rather than through mere imitation.

Thanks

 

[Iron Chef]

I moved your thread here as it seems a more appropriate place for such discussions. Btw, to quote yourself from another thread you recently started:

"What some of our Japanese are doing in this forum is more than fanning hostility..."

Might want to be careful you aren't accused of doing the same...

 

[Tim33]

I fail to see how immitation means something bad.

If something is good then copy yes???

Some might say the chinese way and other oriental ways of doing things are not so good. your inability to move on and put the past behind you. The rich nations generally are these western cultures so what is wrong with being like them. Japan is a reasonably wealthy country also after doing things more the western way.

As for splitting with your past its really the only way to move on is it not??

As for western nations we to have split from our past as you call it. Its Evolution of society.

 

[kirei_na_me]

Btw, to quote yourself from another thread you recently started: "What some of our Japanese are doing in this forum is more than fanning hostility..." Might want to be careful you aren't accused of doing the same...

Exactly...

 

[Doc]

Can't we all just get along? I guess not.

Doc:ramen::happy:

 

[Tim33]

Can't we all just get along?

Agreed. Im sick to death of all this Chinese/Japanese bickering.

Would be nice to see people just move on.

 

[budd]

some might say that for the racial situation in this country as well
look like op just registered to start stuff though

 

[RockLee]

The Chinese had several Foreign architects come over to build their new infrastructure in Beijing, mainly because they want to get more westernlike...soon there will be the olympics in 2008...And you tell me the Japanese are copycats ??? I think you should reconsider your opinion my friend !

 

[Ikyoto]

Tonysoong - can you show me one period of time in which any nation is perfect? Show me one span of time in which any nation can claim to be without any fault.

You cannot.

In your eyes, what should be done to Japan for not being perfect in your eyes? Or for that matter any nation?

 

[miu]

I wrote more on this but my pc crashed and naturally I lost everything, so here's a concised version:

Imitation is one of the most basic thing in the human nature - we learn things through imitation. I wouldn't say, however,
that the Japanese only imitate things. They adopt bits and pieces elsewhere just like any other culture. I could give you
examples of borrowing in the Chinese culture as well but I don't think you're interested in that.

As for the claim that 'the Japanese have never gone beyond imitation', I think it's not valid. I don't see how others view this but I think one
of the key features in the Japanese culture is the 'uchi-soto' concept. It might be applied to the
study of non-japanese cultural adoption as well - on the surface something can seem familiar and like a copy but when you dig deeper it has
more Japanese traits than similarities to the original model. If you think about politics, LDP and the way it works, for example,
one could say it's rather different from the American model... As for things such as tea and the tea ceremony, Chanoyu and Chadô as a whole
both feature distinctively Japanese traits - such as raku ceramics and the ideology for using that particular style.

As for the etnocentric approach, it could be traced back to the Nation State as well as the traditional ie concept
in the Japanese family. Similar way of thinking can be seen in the Chinese clan system, so if you're failiar with it,
I think it should not be difficult to understand why the Japanese work as a whole and not as individuals. I'm not trying
to say that one fact or another justifies anything, I just want to point out that there's always a cause and an effect
so nothing ever happens out of the blue and without a reason. As for regarding other Asian nations as inferior, I doubt
that similar approaches wouldn't ve present elsewhere as well - how do people in general view Africa? How do you view Africa?

If all imitation is prohibited, we wouldn't have rich culture. There's a difference between imitation and adoption.

 

[Tonysoong]

Pity that only my Japanese friend Iron Chef truly understands my post in a very misunderstanging way and that he takes offense. Any way it shows that communication between Chinese and Japanese is easier than that in other contexts. It's nothing strange of course---we are both oriental nations.

I feel wronged with Iron Chef suspecting me of something that i suspect some other posters of on this forum --- fanning hostility. But no, I am not. Instead, i have always been trying to help mitigate that.

Can I or you name any nation with no fault? No, definitely no. The Chinese as I know have serious faults. Realising your own fault is the beginning of tolerance and repentance.

And as for Japanese, copying, as i have said, is good in itself. Copying the west has brought about economic prosperity in the industrial and the post-industrial eras as well as copying classic Chinese culture has contributed much to their iINTERNAL social harmoney.

But, perhaps as Iron Chef has noticed, there is a serious problem behind the Japanese copying --- They have imitated so much both from classic China and the modern west (too much) without digesting it. The aftermath is a civilisation devoid of a humanistic core, biased brutality in disguise of humble manners.

This, I think, helps explain why the Japanese lack an ethic for repentance

 

[Tim33]

This, I think, helps explain why the Japanese lack an ethic for repentance

Back to the war again is it???

I thought you were finally moving on to another topic for a change.
Does everything have to lead back to the Japanese not realising the past.

As i stated before, immitation is not a bad thing, they are merely trying to improve themselves and move on. True maybe they are doing it a little to fast but that is better then not doing it at all.

As for regarding other Asian nations as inferior, I doubt
that similar approaches wouldn't ve present elsewhere as well - how do people in general view Africa? How do you view Africa?

Now you mention that i think i would consider them as inferior, i know this make me sounds like an *** but i do. Lack of technology, evolved society, education.

Therefore maybe the statement by Tonysoong about the Japanese seeing the other asian countries as inferior should be altered to include other nations and there views about other cultures?

 

[Void]

But, perhaps as Iron Chef has noticed, there is a serious problem behind the Japanese copying --- They have imitated so much both from classic China and the modern west (too much) without digesting it. The aftermath is a civilisation devoid of a humanistic core, biased brutality in disguise of humble manners.

This, I think, helps explain why the Japanese lack an ethic for repentance

Sorry, but i think your conclusion is wrong. What they didn`t "digest" is their own cultural and historic inheritance (though, digest is not a proper word). In fact, you can`t cut off your past. It`s your culture, your roots, national Self, if you want, it`s the history you must learn from. And when it is deeply suppressed with adopted bits and pieces (even if they benefit the nation), what do you think will happen after while? I think it will come out (or even burst out), and most of the times in an agly form of nationalistic pride (or rather arrogance)

 

[lexico]

But, perhaps as Iron Chef has noticed, there is a serious problem behind the Japanese copying --- They have imitated so much both from classic China and the modern west (too much) without digesting it. The aftermath is a civilisation devoid of a humanistic core, biased brutality in disguise of humble manners.

This, I think, helps explain why the Japanese lack an ethic for repentance.

Sorry, but i think your conclusion is wrong. What they didn`t "digest" is their own cultural and historic inheritance (though, digest is not a proper word). In fact, you can`t cut off your past. It`s your culture, your roots, national Self, if you want, it`s the history you must learn from. And when it is deeply suppressed with adopted bits and pieces (even if they benefit the nation), what do you think will happen after while? I think it will come out (or even burst out), and most of the times in an agly form of nationalistic pride (or rather arrogagance).

I get the strange feeling that you two are referring to the same phenemenon that nobody truly understands. Japan as any other country is not uniform, as has been pointed out many times, and in this thread, you can also see the Emperor. the press, and the people are all thinking differently. If there was any lack in social progress or awareness as in healthy self-awareness, even the leaders themselves have been swayed by the trends of the times. But as both of you seem to suggest, Not knowing one's past is a great disadvantage. Whatever that may turn out to be. Knowledge is definitely liberating instead of making for more bigotry or arrogance, which only befits an ignorant, savage culture.

 

[Iron Chef]

"Pity that only my Japanese friend Iron Chef truly understands my post in a very misunderstanging way and that he takes offense."

"I feel wronged with Iron Chef suspecting me of something that i suspect some other posters of on this forum --- fanning hostility."

"But, perhaps as Iron Chef has noticed, there is a serious problem behind the Japanese copying"

LOL, dude... first of all, all I did was move your thread to the APPROPRIATE forum for discussion. It has not in any way shape or form been altered or edited for content. So what exactly is the problem where you feel the need to make statements like those above? If you feel wronged as a result of me doing my job then that's on you. I suggest you click on the link I have below in my sig re: the forum rules to familiarize yourself with the site a bit more.

 

[Tim33]

Maybe deep down he thought what he doing was wrong and so when you moved it he assumed that was the reason.

 

[Void]

Tim33, why we just don`t let Tonysoong explain for himself what he thought (no matter how deep)

 

[Tonysoong]

We are not being reasonable enough not to be so constantly derailed. You see, I posted a thread and a friend moved it, and dozens more friends have read it, but then what do we see happening here?

I was just intending to share some of my philosophical thinking and i knew there must be people not interested in it just as there are people interested. If you are interested, just follow this thread. If uninterested, move on to other threads or start your own. Ok?

This is a forum --- for exchange of views and debates --- not for Karade or boxing?

Thanks

 

[Doc]

Look societies and cultures copy off of each other all the time. It's not because they want to forget their past or imitate others, it's because people choose to have a better living when it's made avaiable to them. It's a part of human nature. People copy off each other all the time to make their lives better, that in no way takes away their individuality. They're still unique and individual in their own right still with knowledge of their own past. It's just that they change certain apparences, situations, concepts, etc to make their life better. No matter how much copying a society or culture does from others, they still stay true to their roots (well for the most part they do depending on the individual).

Doc:ramen::happy:

 

[Tonysoong]

The Japanese are largely an oriental pagan nation who admire civilised nations and would do their best to imitate them, which is nothing bad in itself.

In ancient times, the Japanese imitated the Chinese though they now have turned their back on the oriental civilisation. In modern times, the Japanese turned to imitate the west and successfully industrialised their country, which is a good thing in itself.

But unlike the Americans and the Europeans who developed their humanistic ring in their Christian culture(s), the Japanese as a pagan oriental nation who think of their own past as humble and even shameful, chose to split with its own past and to imitate the westerners. In the meantime, they view other oriental nations and cultures as inferior. That's why the Japanese tend to treat other oriental nations as barbarians in a barbaric manner while in the meanwhile behaving themselves in front of westerners in a humble and elaborated civilised manner.

Anyhow, the Japanese have never gone beyond imitation. And the Japanese civilisation can be regarded as a civilisation of imitations which is devoid of its humanistic core.

This core can only be achieved through digestion of what they have imitated, either oriental or western, rather than through mere imitation.

Thanks

What do you have on ur mind now? My friends?