America's downward spiral.....

mad pierrot

I jump to conclusions
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The world via Chi-town
Question: Do you believe the earth was created 6,000 years ago?

Question: Is Darwin responsible for the school shootings at Columbine?

Question: Are homosexuals responsible for AIDs?

Question: Did dinosaurs and man live in the same era?

If you answered "YES" to these questions, this is the place for you!

Multi-million-dollar Creationist Museum!

If you answered "NO" to these questions, you're probably "wilfully ignorant."
Flintstones! meet the Flintstones!
They're the modern stone-age familyyyy!



see? dinosaurs and people, together!
Oh my Darwin!
I'm going to have to see this. There is another such museum close to me (in San Diego, but I haven't visited it.)

I count myself among the Fundamentalist Christians, but I can't justify this misuse of scripture and just plain bad science. I want both of my sons to know the Book of Genesis, but also to learn the scientific method, and to get good grades in Earth Science and Biology (and yes, learn the theory of evolution). I definitely don't want their science teacher teaching them religion.
In this case, I'll happily join the 'willfully ignorant'... ;)
As will I...
Who the hell is saying that crap? I should sneak up behind them and hit them with one of my old Dr. Strange comics.
What is sad (for me anyway) is that I live in Kentucky....just one more reason for ridicule.
I really cannot believe that people would flock to something like this....
mad pierrot said:
It would be hilarious if people weren't taking it seriously.

Oh man, isn't that the truth!!! Unfortunately, a lot of people do take it seriously. I grew up in Dallas Texas in the 50's and 60's in a Southern Baptist environment, so I am pretty familiar with the creationist rap, although the Genesis creation myth was not packaged as a psuedo-scientific "theory" back then, but it was regarded by the believers and posers as biblical fact because it was supposed to be the undisputable word of God.

Although I disagree with their belief and think that they are misinformed, I can at least respect the honesty of people who truly believe the literal interpretation of Genesis and present it as their belief. However, this sneak attack on the science program of public schools by packaging religious dogma as science is like putting a "L" on the grill of a Yugo and trying to sell it as a Lexus. Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot of folks out there who can't tell the difference.

Creationism aka Creation Science is by definition an attempt to prove the account of creation as written in the book of Genesis in the bible, and is the irrefutable word of God. Excuse me, but in the definition of scientific method or scientific theory, do the words "irrefutable word of god" show up anywhere? Not even close.

NO, creationism mascarading as science is just a load of
that Christian fundamentalists are using to try to do an end run on the US Constitution by putting their dogma into the curriculum of public schools, and since the late 80's, these people seem to be gaining support, little by little, with each passing year as they propagate such ignorance.
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I wonder about the power of a religion's message when they have to rely on such underhanded tactics to get it delivered to people. A good message doesn't need to be shoved forcefully down people's throats. It's spread virally from person to person.
Let them have their museum. Let's all take a field trip there this Summer.
I was going to try to speak up for the creationists, but I would do such a poor job.

This issue is so human. We always think we know everything, or at least more than the next guy. I know my Bible is true (It's not scientific, but what the heck.). What myth of origin do you subscribe to? Can you prove it? Can you disprove mine?

If we teach my version of creation, shouldn't we give equal time to the next guys? and the next and the next? Greek, Hindu, Shinto, Hopi, aboriginie, Inuit, Anamist, wikken... and is science class the best place to do this?

Science is what scientists do. Faith is something else. (the substance of things hoped for, evidence of things not seen.)
can't wait to dine out on a Brontoburger....
and is science class the best place to do this?

Science is what scientists do. Faith is something else. (the substance of things hoped for, evidence of things not seen.)

Sabro, one of the points that I was trying to make in my post above is that science class is not the place for presenting a creation myth as an alternative viewpoint to scientific theory. Furthermore, I think that in doing so it would not be fair to either science or to matters of faith.

I recall when as a young teen, I was very interested in science, and particularly in the theories of the origin of the earth's life forms. At 14, I read Charles Darwin's "On the Origin of Species", and became fascinated by the observations of Mr. Darwin as recorded during the voyage of the HMS Beagle. That certainly propelled me to a position of stardom in my 9th grade biology class, but some classmates, who also attended the church that my parents required me to attend, felt uncomfortable with the whole subject of evolution.

I was often asked by them, "what about the Bible? why are you trying to disprove it?" Deep down inside me, I knew what I would like to say, but did not have the ability to articulate the essence of my thoughts on the matter, so I probably just growled a few cursewords at them. However, if I was asked the same question today, my response would be something on the order of ... "What about the Bible? ... as with any ancient myth attempting to explain our origin, Genesis is the best explanation whoever wrote it had at the time. The story establishes the basis for God as the omipotent, omnipresent creator, who can be both benevolent and vengeful, and establishes the cornerstone of the foundation of a religion based on a belief in that god. Whether or not one takes it literally is a matter of belief, and for belief, or faith, science will neither prove, nor disprove it."

Furthermore, I am not opposed to the teaching of religion in public schools, as long as it is not preached, and as long as there is no expectation of a student's believing the dogma of any religion. In fact I think that it would be a wonderful thing if a curriculum in compartative religion could be developed and executed in such a way that young people are educated in the major religions of the world without having the doctrine preached to them as gospel, and in a manner that does not present one religion as being better than the others. Religion has played and continues to play a key role in the evolution of humanity. It cannot, and should not be ignored. But, it would be as inappropriate within that curriculum for a teacher to present a scientific viewpoint as an alternative to religious myth as it is for a science teacher to present religious myth as an alternative to scientific theory.

I just want young people in school to have the opportunity to understand and appreciate both science and religion for what they are, so that as they mature, their lives will be enriched by the knowledge of both. On the other hand, faith and a personal declaration thereof, should remain a matter of personal choice.

As a person of Faith, I agree entirely with you. As a teacher, I agree. I don't mind teaching about religion. It's part of literature, history, geography and humanities. But I don't ever want to teach (preach, proselytize, or even give a full account of) religion. I don't even want the science department to mess with this.
An Interesting Thought?

Someone once asked me why man contemplates "life after death" or what happens after death; yet we never think about our existance before birth? Where were we before our conception? If there is a "soul" after death, where's that "soul" before we are born? I have to admit, that stumped me.


:eek:kashii: :clueless: :?
Frank, I prefer to contemplate life during life. As for my soul, and to the questions of do I have one, where was it before, and where will it go after, the only honest answer that I can give is -- I do not know. Furthermore, having had a lot of practice in not knowing things, I feel quite comfortable in my unknowing. :)
Hey, Bob in Iowa, welcome to my club of the Unknowing! As a member, you can be relieved to know that all members will have their daily allotment of unknowing and unknowable knowledge base to draw from. :D
You will be expected to not know from a variety of things and topics to choose from, including your own birthday, anybody else's birthdays, who is running your country, or from which country you actually belong to...and as an additional bonus, for an unlimited time only, you'll have confidence in not knowing what you should know, would know, or even want to know, thereby eliminating the unnecessary headaches that come from having to know too much or even too little.
All new members are tested to see if they qualify whether they really don't know what they know and what they don't know.
I honestly don't know why I just wrote that, but as I know nothing, I felt it was appropriate for this moment.... :D

Frank can join in at any time with a charter membership, since I know he knows something....
Den4, thank you for the invitation to join your club of the unknowing, however I have always been of the opinion that unknowing is something that is best done on an individual basis. That way I am solely responsible for my own unknowledge. :)
You live in Kentucky and you can't believe it?

That is what I said :)
Believe it or not alot of people dont think that way here.....although, to some degreee, everywhere in America has people who do....not just here. I just can't believe it is in Kentucky because I have been through lots of places in the South and Midwest where a hell of a lot more people go for that kind of ignorant thinking.
I think the title of this thread is very apt when we discuss something of this nature....Do other countries have this problem? I really wonder.

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