Immigration Ban the burka?

I do not understand the hypocrisy of the religious people who believe blindly in the God and then go and deny the the Gods work. If God wanted to hide someones face he would not have created it in the way he/she/it did. Definitely would have created faceless people/women. Why not cover cows face? It makes no sense to me... Or why not cover husbands face?

Just watched a great movie "Wadjda". Must see to understand how women "choices" happen in this culture.

Did you know that menstruating women can't touch the Quran?
Here is why:
Additionally, a menstruating woman is not dirty, but rather from a legal perspective, she is ritually impure for the duration that she is menstruating. This has legal consequences and not spiritual consequences. As such, she is instructed by Allah to stop certain forms of worship, and every second that she obeys these commands, it is worship if done for Allah’s sake.
http://seekersguidance.org/ans-blog...the-quran-islams-perspective-on-menstruation/
So easy to understand; they are not dirty, just ritually impure. :confused:

These are the stupidities which happen every time when trying to explain by logic things that don't make sense to begin with, lol.:rolleyes: Or explaining traditions (or long lost prosaic explanation) in realm of religion and spirituality. Same as Explaining existence and use of Burka in terms of women's fundamental rights, particularly freedom of what to wear.

I guess we have no choice anyway but to cover these "ritually impure creatures". Even better, let's make sure they "chose" to wear it.
Please watch it, one of best movies of the year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3koigluYOH0 (unfortunately only a trailer).
 
I do not understand the hypocrisy of the religious people who believe blindly in the God and then go and deny the the Gods work. If God wanted to hide someones face he would not have created it in the way he/she/it did. Definitely would have created faceless people/women. Why not cover cows face? It makes no sense to me... Or why not cover husbands face?

I'm tired of being polite and politically correct about these kinds of things. The mandating of the wearing of something like the burqua or chador is really about relegating women to the level of sexual objects and nothing more. Oh, I forgot...brood mares and beasts of burden the rest of the time. Certainly not human beings with a mind that might actually be capable of contributing other things of value to a society.

Partly, people who so vehemently support it must believe that most men are such animals that the sight of an unveiled women would provoke them into becoming ravening sexual beasts of prey. (In a documentary about this, I actually heard some ridiculous supporter in Pakistan mouth this idiocy. The real solution, were that true, would be to flood the water supplies with the appropriate medications.)

Really, I think it must stem from profound male sexual insecurity. That, and the fact that in some societies, when you are powerless in every other way, the only remaining means of asserting one's power is apparently through the subjugation of women. A great deal has been written about the whole concept that in certain societies, a man's "honor" is all tied up in the sexual "purity" of his women folk. It's time to find honor in one's own behavior.

As to whether certain societies should have the legal ability to ban it, I've changed my mind...I myself am an immigrant to another country...cultural change is never easy, but if you're not willing to accept the ways of your adopted country, don't immigrate.
 
Just watched a great movie "Wadjda". Must see to understand how women "choices" happen in this culture.

Did you know that menstruating women can't touch the Quran?
Here is why:

http://seekersguidance.org/ans-blog...the-quran-islams-perspective-on-menstruation/
So easy to understand; they are not dirty, just ritually impure. :confused:

These are the stupidities which happen every time when trying to explain by logic things that don't make sense to begin with, lol.:rolleyes: Or explaining traditions (or long lost prosaic explanation) in realm of religion and spirituality. Same as Explaining existence and use of Burka in terms of women's fundamental rights, particularly freedom of what to wear.

I guess we have no choice anyway but to cover these "ritually impure creatures". Even better, let's make sure they "chose" to wear it.
Please watch it, one of best movies of the year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3koigluYOH0 (unfortunately only a trailer).

Thank you for the recommendation, I'll definitely watch it.

People might also be interested in watching the movie Osama. I'm afraid there's no feel good aspect to it, however. It explores the bizarre reasoning of the Taliban regime in prohibiting women from working outside the home, or, indeed, from leaving the home except in the company of a male relative.

This, in the face of the fact that as a result of the death of so many men during the war against the Russians, many households, if they didn't include male children, were condemned to literally starve to death. The story follows the tragic consequences which ensue when a young girl disguises herself as a boy in order to get a job and feed herself, her mother and her grandmother. Watching it is a devastating and infuriating experience.
 
Also, they incessantly attack English-speakers and the English language with bill 14 (do some research on that, basically says you can't speak English in quebec and anyone speaking French somehow has more authority than you) and their are signs everywhere here with "we commerce in French here" written on them, due to the current racist/xenophobic government that is in power, soon this place will be ghettoized. It's much worse than what you've read so far but I don't exactly feel like explaining the entire situation right now, it would take me days.

Hi there - new to the board, and also a Canadian from B.C. that has stayed many times in Montreal and Quebec City. So I just wanted to clarify (as it seems no has as yet) but English is readily spoken there. My English speaking son worked there for over 7 years with the telephone company. Though it helps at times to be bilingual in some parts of Montreal, Westmount - an area of Montreal that is predominately English, a area where French is not the dominate language spoken at all.

Back on topic - regarding burka's - I read once that the idea of the veil came from Mohammed to simply screen his Mother and sisters from the prying and glaring eyes of the men in the audience. Which apparently over time and propagated by the twisted mindsets present was interpreted to mean all women should be covered and unseen. Sorry I don't have the source any more for that comment.

Thus I think that it is primarily the men that need to be educated first. In that they are the ones brainwashed into believing, and not exclusively to Islam, that women are no more than sexual objects and thus without a brain, something that needs to be simply controlled and subjugated to their will. Of course not all Men believe this but their pre-programmed actions and exclusions of women often in the work place states that they are apart of a system that does so none the less.

On a broader scope we see how 'Mankind' tries to dominate and control 'Mother Earth', weather modification ie geoengineering, oil gas industry, etc. Primarily it would seem because biblically it was said to 'be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it." This go forth and conquer ideal has never left apparently....
 
I'm tired of being polite and politically correct about these kinds of things. The mandating of the wearing of something like the burqua or chador is really about relegating women to the level of sexual objects and nothing more. Oh, I forgot...brood mares and beasts of burden the rest of the time. Certainly not human beings with a mind that might actually be capable of contributing other things of value to a society.

Partly, people who so vehemently support it must believe that most men are such animals that the sight of an unveiled women would provoke them into becoming ravening sexual beasts of prey. (In a documentary about this, I actually heard some ridiculous supporter in Pakistan mouth this idiocy. The real solution, were that true, would be to flood the water supplies with the appropriate medications.)

Really, I think it must stem from profound male sexual insecurity. That, and the fact that in some societies, when you are powerless in every other way, the only remaining means of asserting one's power is apparently through the subjugation of women. A great deal has been written about the whole concept that in certain societies, a man's "honor" is all tied up in the sexual "purity" of his women folk. It's time to find honor in one's own behavior.

As to whether certain societies should have the legal ability to ban it, I've changed my mind...I myself am an immigrant to another country...cultural change is never easy, but if you're not willing to accept the ways of your adopted country, don't immigrate.

I agree

since all religions pray to the same God, then these "rules" against women are too keep women from being equal to men. I keep thinking that all people want to have a slave/servant.........its a human condition
 
Hell, in my (european) country, not very long ago, if a married woman showed her hair on the street on the countryside, she was promptly categorised as being of loose morals.

Really? I never thought this mentality ever existed anywhere in the West, out of strictly religious constitutions. I was discussing this issue with a muslim who seemed to want Sharia to be established in my country. He portrayed the situation like this, outside is a wild jungle full of poisonous snakes that are hungry for biting and these snakes are being men with unquenchable desires of biting (not necessarily) women. He asked me whether women should enter the jungle without precaution for the snakes. Clearly they think that veiling is the precaution for a possible adultery.
 
Really? I never thought this mentality ever existed anywhere in the West, out of strictly religious constitutions. I was discussing this issue with a muslim who seemed to want Sharia to be established in my country. He portrayed the situation like this, outside is a wild jungle full of poisonous snakes that are hungry for biting and these snakes are being men with unquenchable desires of biting (not necessarily) women. He asked me whether women should enter the jungle without precaution for the snakes. Clearly they think that veiling is the precaution for a possible adultery.

Men with such "unquenchable desires" that they cannot be trusted around women who aren't buried in a chador or locked away in some hareem should perhaps be surgically or chemically altered so that they are fit to live in decent, civilized societies. We have as an example the chemical "castration" which is sometimes mandated for pedophiles.
 
Men with such "unquenchable desires" that they cannot be trusted around women who aren't buried in a chador or locked away in some hareem should perhaps be surgically or chemically altered so that they are fit to live in decent, civilized societies. We have as an example the chemical "castration" which is sometimes mandated for pedophiles.

That seems like a reasonable perspective. To use the analogy of the poisonous biting serpent mentioned above, it would make sense for women to get rid of the poisonous and predatory serpents and just keep us serpents who are well behaved and only go where we're invited. I've never understood why a snake would even want to go somewhere he wasn't welcome.
 
Men with such "unquenchable desires" that they cannot be trusted around women who aren't buried in a chador or locked away in some hareem should perhaps be surgically or chemically altered so that they are fit to live in decent, civilized societies. We have as an example the chemical "castration" which is sometimes mandated for pedophiles.

Castration, that's what they did to harem chiefs, who were always male, in harems. Probably they realized that they couldn't have castrated all the males in the empire, so they decided to put women in ninja suits instead. So no, there is no such concept as "men without unquenchable sex-drive" in Islam. It is considered adultery and sin even to look at a pretty lady's cleavage or think about it, no physical contact or action is required for it to be considered a sin. That's why it took them to the extreme edge of human idiocy.

Ah, Farinelli was a good movie btw. Have you watched it?

That seems like a reasonable perspective. To use the analogy of the poisonous biting serpent mentioned above, it would make sense for women to get rid of the poisonous and predatory serpents and just keep us serpents who are well behaved and only go where we're invited. I've never understood why a snake would even want to go somewhere he wasn't welcome.

Maybe snakes do not possess a sufficient amount of reasoning abilty to decide whether they are invited. And I couldn't understand how you expected snakes to behave well. Remember, they are supposed to be living in jungle, not in civilization.
 
That seems like a reasonable perspective. To use the analogy of the poisonous biting serpent mentioned above, it would make sense for women to get rid of the poisonous and predatory serpents and just keep us serpents who are well behaved and only go where we're invited. I've never understood why a snake would even want to go somewhere he wasn't welcome.

You should have seen my original response...I did indeed use the analogy provided...then I thought better of it and exercised the utmost restraint.:grin:

The professional opinion is that such "snakes" are psychologically damaged in some way, perhaps sexually abused themselves as children, often powerless in every other way and therefore seek to assert their power sexually over women.

I think it can also be a product, in some societies, of unnatural segregation of the sexes, which provides no outlet for young men at their most "virile". It also leads, in those societies, ironically enough, to homosexual behavior by men not necessarily homosexual by nature, all the while that such activity carries the death penalty.

On a less intellectual level, outside of my professional sphere, it's been my experience that such "snakes" are often hideous, charmless, or emotionally crippled, and so they're not wanted anywhere. Then there are the alcohol fueled events where the "beast" comes out.

Regardless, I have no tolerance whatsoever. It used to be that I was prohibited from serving on juries. Now I can. NO ONE charged with such a crime would want me on their jury, I assure you, especially not during the punishment phase. As for anything involving minors, castration is too good for them.
 
...................
Maybe snakes do not possess a sufficient amount of reasoning abilty to decide whether they are invited. And I couldn't understand how you expected snakes to behave well. Remember, they are supposed to be living in jungle, not in civilization.

Since you don't seem to recognize irony or symbolism, I'll speak more bluntly. If a man is so damaged that he acts like a rabid dog, the most compassionate thing we could do is put a bullet in his head. The world would be a much better place for everyone if women and children didn't have to worry about being abused by a predator.
 
Since you don't seem to recognize irony or symbolism, I'll speak more bluntly. If a man is so damaged that he acts like a rabid dog, the most compassionate thing we could do is put a bullet in his head. The world would be a much better place for everyone if women and children didn't have to worry about being abused by a predator.

Thanks for clearing it up. I really need to hone my skills in understanding irony and symbolism.
 
The world would be a much better place for everyone if women and children didn't have to worry about being abused by a predator.
That's right. What happened to man's role as protector of women and children? I don't mean hiding his children and his woman under fabric of burka, I mean protecting all women and children of the village, the city, the nation or the world.
 
I think this obsession with the idea that if their women aren't locked away they're going to be putting "horns" on them with every man with whom they come into contact would be amusing if it weren't so sad. Do they really think women find every man they encounter sexually irresistible? Where does this sexual insecurity come from? Sometimes I wonder if it isn't a case of projection of their own psyche and drives onto women.

In modern western societies, with birth control available, there are indeed women who "cheat" on their husbands with few consequences, even if it's morally reprehensible. There are still more men who "cheat" on their wives, however. Doesn't anybody listen to country music???:LOL:

However, these rules were instituted and are still primarily practiced in primitive societies without birth control where women were/are giving birth every two years or so, and working like beasts of burden, beasts of burden with one child at the breast and numerous others pulling at her skirts. What woman in her right mind under such circumstances would want yet ANOTHER man grabbing at her? The whole thing is laughable. And gracious, after ten to twenty years of such a life, these women are not normally centerfold material, all due respect to them. Precisely what kind of man would be inspired to "unquenchable desires" by them?

My grandmother in law was, many years ago, reprimanded by her brother in law for talking to some of the men in her husband's village as she did her shopping. She threw a plate of heavily sauced spaghetti in his face, and that was the end of that.:grin:
 
It has to be understood that, to a muslim man, the whole point of veiling is to prevent women from getting sexual attention from men. They don't want their wives or daughters to be thought of as sexual objects by other men. Possibility of their wives or daughters being subject to an ongoing wet dream inside the head of another man is just driving them crazy.
 
there is currently a letter to the health authorities in Australia by a women whose 4 year old son is traumatized when seeing this burga or any similar mask with only eyes showing ( like an IRA mask)............compensation is sought and for issues IF in later years there are problems ( preventive "laws").

maybe these women should wear it only in the home so as to not traumatize young children !!....................it's not a religious thing anyway, its only a cultural thing..........something like removing all headwear when you enter homes,
 
there is currently a letter to the health authorities in Australia by a women whose 4 year old son is traumatized when seeing this burga or any similar mask with only eyes showing ( like an IRA mask)............compensation is sought and for issues IF in later years there are problems ( preventive "laws").

maybe these women should wear it only in the home so as to not traumatize young children !!....................it's not a religious thing anyway, its only a cultural thing..........something like removing all headwear when you enter homes,

True, from what I've heard, the Koran doesn't mention the Burka (or any veil for that matter), and doesn't ask women to wear that tent.

P.S a study found out that women that wear the tent suffer from a lack of vitamin D.
 
True, from what I've heard, the Koran doesn't mention the Burka (or any veil for that matter), and doesn't ask women to wear that tent.

P.S a study found out that women that wear the tent suffer from a lack of vitamin D.

i guess these women suffer from a lot more than just lack of vitamin D
 
Diocletian: It has to be understood that, to a muslim man, the whole point of veiling is to prevent women from getting sexual attention from men. They don't want their wives or daughters to be thought of as sexual objects by other men. Possibility of their wives or daughters being subject to an ongoing wet dream inside the head of another man is just driving them crazy.


No
, it is they who only see women as sexual objects, and they project this world view onto every one else.

If this is a true representation of their mindset, then they are suffering from a psycho sexual disorder for which they need psychological or perhaps psychiatric intervention. Perhaps there is something in the culture which has arrested the sexual development of these men. They should be concentrating on their studies, their work, the care and protection of their families, and the well-being and future of their country, not lost in a perpetual adolescent sexual reverie.

Is there sometimes a sexual element to some degree in relationships between men and women when they are interacting on a social or even professional level? I would say yes, in certain, although absolutely not all situations, and it varies by individual. Some people are more than content with what they have at home. Also, men and women can be friends, you know, with absolutely no sexual attraction between them. If that sexual attraction does exist, that "frisson" can be part of what adds some spice to life. However, among civilized people it is very often sublimated because of professional competition and/or ethics, societal norms, moral imperatives, and religious strictures. We are not all animals, after all.

Most importantly, the health, safety, educational, professional, and economic rights of women cannot be sacrificed to the neurosis or psychosis of damaged men who can control neither their thoughts nor their actions.

Ed. After listening to all of this, I have changed my mind ...the wearing of the burka should be banned in all western countries as a human rights violation. Anything other than a simple head scarf should be absolutely prohibited, and even then, safety concerns would limit where it can be worn. Furthermore, any country which enforces it should never be permitted into the European Union, and perhaps all immigrants who hail from countries which practice it and other inhumane and anti-woman practices, like female genital mutilation, should be denied entry even under refugee status. Let them be taken in by countries with similar world views.
 
there is currently a letter to the health authorities in Australia by a women whose 4 year old son is traumatized when seeing this burga or any similar mask with only eyes showing ( like an IRA mask)............compensation is sought and for issues IF in later years there are problems ( preventive "laws").

maybe these women should wear it only in the home so as to not traumatize young children !!....................it's not a religious thing anyway, its only a cultural thing..........something like removing all headwear when you enter homes,

Traumatizing young children is clearly not a reasonable expectation for almost any form of dress, burka included. Ban clown noses too because some children are scared of them? Burka opponents are really reaching now.
 

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