Comparing modern Greek/Balkan populations to Classical/Hellenistic sample from Macedonia.

[matadworf]

I did not include the Macedonia outlier sample which is definitely more Northern shifted..
Macedonia_Classical_Hellenistic_o,0.095611,0.13405,-0.058077,-0.080104,-0.014464,-0.029284,-0.00047,-0.002538,-0.004704,0.01057,0.005034,-0.002248,0.017096,0.01156,-0.006107,0.006099,-0.00678,0,0.001508,0.004127,0.001872,0.002844,-0.008134,0.000482,-0.002515

 

[Kari]

Ok I can see the mercenary connection. But these samples are pretty random and isolated.

Yeah i think the only real migrations,are the north-central europe related,eastern mediterannean related and the east europe one.An African migration is not observable in modern day balkans

 

[bigsnake49]

I am still "bothered" that we have such good fits with Anatolian farmers+Steppe+Iran for modern Greek populations. It is as if the slavic migration+Vlah+Arvanite migrations never happened. It is as if the Slav migration was almost exclusively men driven since we have Y-DNA evidence that it occurred but their autosomal signal was wiped out. So I am kinda suspicious of the models right now.

 

[lacreme]

Isn't this just Davidski's standard model ?

EDIT
Also, by the Classical to Hellenistic period which is the timeframe set by OP big chunks of the Balkans were already under direct or indirect Greek influence and as such bidirectional gene flow would have already been a thing, let alone by the time the Vlach and Medieval Albanian migrations started to take place. Autosomally I wouldn't expect huge or even big differences in a case of a Greek/Greek+Slavic plus medieval Balkan mix, excluding the ever present slavic influence of course (and the Haplogroups which are outside the scope of this thread) .

 

[APO276]

I am still "bothered" that we have such good fits with Anatolian farmers+Steppe+Iran for modern Greek populations. It is as if the slavic migration+Vlah+Arvanite migrations never happened. It is as if the Slav migration was almost exclusively men driven since we have Y-DNA evidence that it occurred but their autosomal signal was wiped out. So I am kinda suspicious of the models right now.

Arvanites and Vlachs kept their languages and identities until recently.

Assimilated early Slavs are more likely to have made an impact but not necessarily that big.

Those who have Arvanite ancestry usually know it. E.g. my father is from Epirus and as far as I know we don't have known Arvanite or Vlach ancestry, even if some Souliotes settled at our village rather late.

My grandmother's surname has plausible Slavic etymology though. (I say plausible because there is plausible Greek etymology too and because from common Slavic we would expect something a little different, although semantically I prefer the Slavic/para-Slavic etymology).

 

[bigsnake49]

It's like they were a lot of Balkan women and very few Slav men.

 

[matadworf]

I am still "bothered" that we have such good fits with Anatolian farmers+Steppe+Iran for modern Greek populations. It is as if the slavic migration+Vlah+Arvanite migrations never happened. It is as if the Slav migration was almost exclusively men driven since we have Y-DNA evidence that it occurred but their autosomal signal was wiped out. So I am kinda suspicious of the models right now.

Arvanites are typically Southern Albanian Tosk's right? So they wouldn't necessarily be carrying any additional Slavic admixture. I guess the further North you go the more Slavic you'd find. I'm kind of thinking that there was a total absorption of the Slavic population that may have raised the Steppe admixture a bit. If you compare the Steppe admixture in mainlanders compared to Islanders there's a significant difference. What was the IBD sharing percentage (high) with Slavs (Poles) for Peloponnesians in the Peloponnesian paper like 14%. Where's the extra Steppe coming from?

 

[matadworf]

It's like they were a lot of Balkan women and very few Slav men.

I agree. It's funny you mention that but I remember noticing during my trips to my grandfather's (;paternal) mountain village in Messinia many of the women "looked" Slavic and the men much less so.

 

[bigsnake49]

The only other option, other than the models are faulty is that the R1a and I2a haplogroup people were very close genetically to the classical steppe people.

 

[matadworf]

The only other option, other than the models are faulty is that the R1a and I2a haplogroup people were very close genetically to the classical steppe people.

Kristian Kristiansen: DNA and European prehistory

One of the preeminent archaeologists of Northern Europe talks about where we are in 2024

www.razibkhan.com

Listen around 47:40 as Kristiansen talk about upcoming paper on Bronze Age Med.