Conqueror tribes of Hungary couldn't spoke the ancestor of Hungarian language in 895!

Stears555 said:
The Haplogroup N is frequent in Slavic speaking populations and Northern Germanic (inc. Northern Germany) speaking populations . Haplogroup Q is also frequent in slavic and NorthernGermanic populations.
Click to expand...

So, suddenly haplos N and Q become Slavic and Germanic? :D
 
Must we do site and academic searches for our posters, and conduct tutorials as well? This is getting tiresome.

From Eupedia, but similar information can be found in other web sites and academic publications:

Haplogroup N1c is found chiefly in north-eastern Europe, particularly in Finland (61%), Lapland (53%), Estonia (34%), Latvia (38%), Lithuania (42%) and northern Russia (30%), and to a lower extent also in central Russia (15%), Belarus (10%), eastern Ukraine (9%), Sweden (7%), Poland (4%) and Turkey (4%). N1c is also prominent among the Uralic speaking ethnicities of the Volga-Ural region, including the Udmurts (67%), Komi (51%), Mari (50%) and Mordvins (20%), but also among their Turkic neighbours like the Chuvashs (28%), Volga Tatars (21%) and Bashkirs (17%), as well as the Nogais (9%) of southern Russia.
N1c represents the western extent of haplogroup N, which is found all over the Far East (China, Korea, Japan), Mongolia and Siberia, especially among Uralic speakers of northern Siberia. N1c reaches a maximum frequency of approximately 95% in the Nenets and Nganassans, two Uralic tribes of central-northern Siberia, and 90% among the Yakuts, a Turkic people who live mainly in the Sakha (Yakutia) Republic in central-eastern Siberia.



Eupedia Home > Genetics > Haplogroups (home) > Haplogroup N1c
Haplogroup N1c (Y-DNA)
hg-n1c.jpg
Author: Maciamo. Last update April 2014

Contents

Geographic distribution

Haplogroup N1c is found chiefly in north-eastern Europe, particularly in Finland (61%), Lapland (53%), Estonia (34%), Latvia (38%), Lithuania (42%) and northern Russia (30%), and to a lower extent also in central Russia (15%), Belarus (10%), eastern Ukraine (9%), Sweden (7%), Poland (4%) and Turkey (4%). N1c is also prominent among the Uralic speaking ethnicities of the Volga-Ural region, including the Udmurts (67%), Komi (51%), Mari (50%) and Mordvins (20%), but also among their Turkic neighbours like the Chuvashs (28%), Volga Tatars (21%) and Bashkirs (17%), as well as the Nogais (9%) of southern Russia.
N1c represents the western extent of haplogroup N, which is found all over the Far East (China, Korea, Japan), Mongolia and Siberia, especially among Uralic speakers of northern Siberia. N1c reaches a maximum frequency of approximately 95% in the Nenets and Nganassans, two Uralic tribes of central-northern Siberia, and 90% among the Yakuts, a Turkic people who live mainly in the Sakha (Yakutia) Republic in central-eastern Siberia.
Distribution of haplogroup N1c in Europe
Haplogroup-N.gif


​
Subclades

Note that N1c was known as N3 and N1c1 as N3a in the official phylogeny prior to 2008.

  • N1c (L729)
    • N1c1 (M46/Page70/Tat)
      • N1c1a (M178): found in Siberia
        • N1c1a1 (L708): found in the Volga-Ural region
          • N1c1a1a (L392, L1026): found throughout north-east Europe
            • N1c1a1a1 (CTS2929/VL29): found in Russia (incl. Volga-Ural), the Baltic, Sweden and Hungary
              • N1c1a1a1a (L550): found throughout the Baltic and North Slavic countries, and in places settled by the Vikings
                • N1c1a1a1a1 (L1025): found especially in Balto-Slavic countries, with a peak in Lithuania and Latvia
                  • N1c1a1a1a1a (L149.2, L551)
                  • N1c1a1a1a1b (L591)
                  • N1c1a1a1a1c (L1027)
              • N1c1a1a1b (L1022): found throughout north-east Europe, especially in Finland
            • N1c1a1a2 (Z1936)
              • N1c1a1a2a (Z1925, Z1935): found in Finland, Lapland, Scandinavia, the Volga-Ural and the Altai
                • N1c1a1a2a1 (Z1927)
                  • N1c1a1a2a1a (Z1941)
                    • N1c1a1a2a1a1 (Z1940)
              • N1c1a1a2b (L1034): found in and around Hungary and in Central Asia (Kazakhstan). Ugric subclade.
    • N1c2 (L666): found in Russia
      • N1c2a (M128)
      • N1c2b (P43): found in the Volga-Ural region
        • N1c2b1 (P63)
        • N1c2b2 (L665)
    Origins & History

    Haplogroup N is a descendant of East Asian macro-haplogroup NO. It is believed to have originated in Indochina or southern China approximately 15,000 to 20,000 years ago.
    Haplogroup N1* and N1c were both found at high frequency (26 out of 70 samples, or 37%) in Neolithic and Bronze Age remains (4500-700 BCE) from the West Liao River valley in Northeast China by Yinqiu Cui et al. (2013). Among the Neolithic samples, haplogroup N1 made up two thirds of the samples from the Hongshan culture (4700-2900 BCE) and all the samples from the Xiaoheyan culture (3000-2200 BCE), hinting that N1 people played a major role in the diffusion of the Neolithic lifestyle around Northeast China, and probably also to Mongolia and Siberia.
    The N1c1 subclade found in Europe likely arose in Southern Siberia 12,000 years ago, and spread to north-eastern Europe 10,000 years ago. It is associated with the Kunda culture (8000-5000 BCE) and the subsequent Comb Ceramic culture (4200-2000 BCE), which evolved into Finnic and pre-Baltic people.
    The Indo-European Corded Ware culture (3200-1800 BCE) progressively took over the Baltic region and southern Finland from 2,500 BCE. The merger of the two gave rise to the hybrid Kiukainen culture (2300-1500 BCE). Modern Baltic people have a roughly equal proportion of haplogroup N1c1 and R1a, resulting from this merger of Uralic and Slavic cultures.
    A small percentage of N1c1 is found among all Slavic, Scandinavian populations, as well as in most of Germany (except the north-west). Its origin is uncertain at present, but it most probably spread with the Iron Age and early Medieval (Proto-)Slavic tribes from Russia, Belarus and Ukraine toward East Germany. The Scandinavian N1c1 has three potential sources:
    • 1. Progressive assimilation of the northern Sami populations by Scandinavian/Germanic people since the Iron Age
    • 2. Immigration from Germany and Poland in the last two millennia.
    • 3. Population exchange with Finland and the Baltic countries when these came under Scandinavian rule, particularly during the eight centuries of political union
    • between Sweden and Finland.
  • Ed. There is disagreement among experts about some of this, but not about the fact that it came to Europe from Siberia.
 
Last edited:
Angela said:
Must we do site and academic searches for our posters, and conduct tutorials as well? This is getting tiresome.

From Eupedia, but similar information can be found in other web sites and academic publications:

Haplogroup N1c is found chiefly in north-eastern Europe, particularly in Finland (61%), Lapland (53%), Estonia (34%), Latvia (38%), Lithuania (42%) and northern Russia (30%), and to a lower extent also in central Russia (15%), Belarus (10%), eastern Ukraine (9%), Sweden (7%), Poland (4%) and Turkey (4%). N1c is also prominent among the Uralic speaking ethnicities of the Volga-Ural region, including the Udmurts (67%), Komi (51%), Mari (50%) and Mordvins (20%), but also among their Turkic neighbours like the Chuvashs (28%), Volga Tatars (21%) and Bashkirs (17%), as well as the Nogais (9%) of southern Russia.
N1c represents the western extent of haplogroup N, which is found all over the Far East (China, Korea, Japan), Mongolia and Siberia, especially among Uralic speakers of northern Siberia. N1c reaches a maximum frequency of approximately 95% in the Nenets and Nganassans, two Uralic tribes of central-northern Siberia, and 90% among the Yakuts, a Turkic people who live mainly in the Sakha (Yakutia) Republic in central-eastern Siberia.



Eupedia Home > Genetics > Haplogroups (home) > Haplogroup N1c
Haplogroup N1c (Y-DNA)
hg-n1c.jpg
Author: Maciamo. Last update April 2014

Contents

Geographic distribution

Haplogroup N1c is found chiefly in north-eastern Europe, particularly in Finland (61%), Lapland (53%), Estonia (34%), Latvia (38%), Lithuania (42%) and northern Russia (30%), and to a lower extent also in central Russia (15%), Belarus (10%), eastern Ukraine (9%), Sweden (7%), Poland (4%) and Turkey (4%). N1c is also prominent among the Uralic speaking ethnicities of the Volga-Ural region, including the Udmurts (67%), Komi (51%), Mari (50%) and Mordvins (20%), but also among their Turkic neighbours like the Chuvashs (28%), Volga Tatars (21%) and Bashkirs (17%), as well as the Nogais (9%) of southern Russia.
N1c represents the western extent of haplogroup N, which is found all over the Far East (China, Korea, Japan), Mongolia and Siberia, especially among Uralic speakers of northern Siberia. N1c reaches a maximum frequency of approximately 95% in the Nenets and Nganassans, two Uralic tribes of central-northern Siberia, and 90% among the Yakuts, a Turkic people who live mainly in the Sakha (Yakutia) Republic in central-eastern Siberia.
Distribution of haplogroup N1c in Europe
Haplogroup-N.gif


​
Subclades

Note that N1c was known as N3 and N1c1 as N3a in the official phylogeny prior to 2008.

  • N1c (L729)
    • N1c1 (M46/Page70/Tat)
      • N1c1a (M178): found in Siberia
        • N1c1a1 (L708): found in the Volga-Ural region
          • N1c1a1a (L392, L1026): found throughout north-east Europe
            • N1c1a1a1 (CTS2929/VL29): found in Russia (incl. Volga-Ural), the Baltic, Sweden and Hungary
              • N1c1a1a1a (L550): found throughout the Baltic and North Slavic countries, and in places settled by the Vikings
                • N1c1a1a1a1 (L1025): found especially in Balto-Slavic countries, with a peak in Lithuania and Latvia
                  • N1c1a1a1a1a (L149.2, L551)
                  • N1c1a1a1a1b (L591)
                  • N1c1a1a1a1c (L1027)
              • N1c1a1a1b (L1022): found throughout north-east Europe, especially in Finland
            • N1c1a1a2 (Z1936)
              • N1c1a1a2a (Z1925, Z1935): found in Finland, Lapland, Scandinavia, the Volga-Ural and the Altai
                • N1c1a1a2a1 (Z1927)
                  • N1c1a1a2a1a (Z1941)
                    • N1c1a1a2a1a1 (Z1940)
              • N1c1a1a2b (L1034): found in and around Hungary and in Central Asia (Kazakhstan). Ugric subclade.
    • N1c2 (L666): found in Russia
      • N1c2a (M128)
      • N1c2b (P43): found in the Volga-Ural region
        • N1c2b1 (P63)
        • N1c2b2 (L665)
    Origins & History

    Haplogroup N is a descendant of East Asian macro-haplogroup NO. It is believed to have originated in Indochina or southern China approximately 15,000 to 20,000 years ago.
    Haplogroup N1* and N1c were both found at high frequency (26 out of 70 samples, or 37%) in Neolithic and Bronze Age remains (4500-700 BCE) from the West Liao River valley in Northeast China by Yinqiu Cui et al. (2013). Among the Neolithic samples, haplogroup N1 made up two thirds of the samples from the Hongshan culture (4700-2900 BCE) and all the samples from the Xiaoheyan culture (3000-2200 BCE), hinting that N1 people played a major role in the diffusion of the Neolithic lifestyle around Northeast China, and probably also to Mongolia and Siberia.
    The N1c1 subclade found in Europe likely arose in Southern Siberia 12,000 years ago, and spread to north-eastern Europe 10,000 years ago. It is associated with the Kunda culture (8000-5000 BCE) and the subsequent Comb Ceramic culture (4200-2000 BCE), which evolved into Finnic and pre-Baltic people.
    The Indo-European Corded Ware culture (3200-1800 BCE) progressively took over the Baltic region and southern Finland from 2,500 BCE. The merger of the two gave rise to the hybrid Kiukainen culture (2300-1500 BCE). Modern Baltic people have a roughly equal proportion of haplogroup N1c1 and R1a, resulting from this merger of Uralic and Slavic cultures.
    A small percentage of N1c1 is found among all Slavic, Scandinavian populations, as well as in most of Germany (except the north-west). Its origin is uncertain at present, but it most probably spread with the Iron Age and early Medieval (Proto-)Slavic tribes from Russia, Belarus and Ukraine toward East Germany. The Scandinavian N1c1 has three potential sources:
    • 1. Progressive assimilation of the northern Sami populations by Scandinavian/Germanic people since the Iron Age
    • 2. Immigration from Germany and Poland in the last two millennia.
    • 3. Population exchange with Finland and the Baltic countries when these came under Scandinavian rule, particularly during the eight centuries of political union between Sweden and Finland.
Click to expand...

It does not change the fact that Europe is a geographical term, and Finno-Ugric languages were born in N-E Europe, you confused the uralic term with Finno-ugric term. And it also does not change the fact, that IE languages were born in Iran, Asia. :) And it was not the original language of the ancestors of Western Europeans. (rmember: Dealer-language, language shift)

Do not forget, aryan theory collapsed, only nazis believe it in the 21th century.
 
Stears555 said:
and Finno-Ugric languages were born in N-E Europe, And it also does not change the fact, IE languages were born in Iran, Asia. :
Click to expand...
Even when you say that it doesn't make it a fact. Nobody knows where these languages were born, and we will never know. We can exclude Africa, Americas, SE Asia and Australia as most unlikely, but their exact place of origin will always stay a secret.

Just correcting your "facts", otherwise I don't care where they were born. My mother tongue could be from Africa and I'm fine with that.

Do not forget, aryan theory collapsed, only nazis believe it in the 21th century.
Click to expand...
Did someone said otherwise? I noticed that you love to argue with fictional arguments and look for fictional enemy, creating fictional danger to your faith, language and culture. Some kind of phobia I guess. You came here to fight to defend what is in "danger", didn't you? Now you have to create enemy from ordinary people to accomplish your goal. You are pretty much succeeding, good job.

Emagine that all the people on Eupedia could have been your friends if treated with respect.
 
LeBrok said:
Even when you say that it doesn't make it a fact. Nobody knows where these languages were born, and we will never know. We can exclude Africa, Americas, SE Asia and Australia as most unlikely, but their exact place of origin will always stay a secret.

Just correcting your "facts", otherwise I don't care where they were born. My mother tongue could be from Africa and I'm fine with that.

Did someone said otherwise? I noticed that you love to argue with fictional arguments and look for fictional enemy, creating fictional danger to your faith, language and culture. Some kind of phobia I guess. You came here to fight to defend what is in "danger", didn't you? Now you have to create enemy from ordinary people to accomplish your goal. You are pretty much succeeding, good job.

Emagine that all the people on Eupedia could have been your friends if treated with respect.
Click to expand...

There are some members in this forum, who believes in the Aryan theroy, and try to defend the obsolete theory that IE languages have European origin (It is a form of the modern survival of debunked outdated Aryan theory)
 
Stears555 said:
There are some members in this forum, who believes in the Aryan theroy, and try to defend the obsolete theory that IE languages have European origin (It is a form of the modern survival of debunked outdated Aryan theory)
Click to expand...

So now you're attacking straw men who don't exist? I don't know anyone on this forum (except for possibly you) who would deny that Europeans are descended from people who moved to Europe from the Middle East or Asia. And the fact that the IE homeland is probably in southern Russia doesn't change the fact that the Y haplotype most likely to be typical of Proto-IE people (R1a) seems to have evolved somewhere in Asia.

And if you actually understood what the Finno-Ugric branch of Uralic is, you'd know that there are many Finno-Ugric speakers in Asia. And not all linguists agree with dividing the Uralic language group into the Finno-Ugric languages and Samoyed.
 
Aberdeen said:
So now you're attacking straw men who don't exist? I don't know anyone on this forum (except for possibly you) who would deny that Europeans are descended from people who moved to Europe from the Middle East or Asia. And the fact that the IE homeland is probably in southern Russia doesn't change the fact that the Y haplotype most likely to be typical of Proto-IE people (R1a) seems to have evolved somewhere in Asia.

And if you actually understood what the Finno-Ugric branch of Uralic is, you'd know that there are many Finno-Ugric speakers in Asia. And not all linguists agree with dividing the Uralic language group into the Finno-Ugric languages and Samoyed.
Click to expand...

Wrong. It is a very well spread tale on the Internet about the Ukrainian origin of IE languages, but it is not nupported by the vast majority of academic linguist scholars. R1a is rare in Western Europe. Nobody support anymore the aryan conquest theory (only the lesser educated nazis support it). IE languages are not original language of Western European people. It was just an asian dealer language, later lingua-franca which spred with language-shift. Deal with it!

Uralic language group is a new term, it was invented only in the 1980s, its simple existence is debated by academic linguists. Finno-ugric was invented in the late 18th century. Only samoyedic language group appeared in Asia, but Finno-ugric languages were born in N-E Europe.
 
Stears555 said:
Wrong. It is a very well spread tale on the Internet about the Ukrainian origin of IE languages, but it is not nupported by the vast majority of academic linguist scholars. R1a is rare in Western Europe. Nobody support anymore the aryan conquest theory (only the lesser educated nazis support it). IE languages are not original language of Western European people. It was just an asian dealer language, later lingua-franca which spred with language-shift. Deal with it!

Uralic language group is a new term, it was invented only in the 1980s, its simple existence is debated by academic linguists. Finno-ugric was invented in the late 18th century. Only samoyedic language group appeared in Asia, but Finno-ugric languages were born in N-E Europe.
Click to expand...

So, are we to assume you believe that Hungarians are descended from European reindeer?
 
Aberdeen said:
So, are we to assume you believe that Hungarians are descended from European reindeer?
Click to expand...

:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:

Bless you...I've been losing my sense of humor reading all this drek...thanks for bringing it back.
 
Actually, it was a trick question. I was assuming he doesn't know that European reindeer originally migrated in from Asia.
 
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