Immigration Dozens dead as vehicle crashed into crowd in Nice, France

This time it's a 17 year old Afghan refugee on a train hacking at people with an ax and a knife.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/germany-train-axe-attack-live-8445573

Every couple of days it's something else. In the U.S. it's cop killings every few days, or marches because a young black man has been killed by a policeman.

The Republican Presidential nominating convention is also all over the airwaves. It's one of those times when I actually wish I drank more instead of less.

The more left wing news sites are already calling it the "angry white men's convention".
 
Dinarid said:
This is unacceptable in a democratic society. What you want is totalitarianism, and this is everything that's wrong with the EU. Hate speech is free speech, sorry. Your feelings have no right to prevent me from saying what I want, no matter how offensive. Anyone who can't deal with that shouldn't be on the internet. You can't run to the authorities every time someone says something offensive- that's literally impossible. But at least you're honest that you want the state to protect peoples' feelings like little babies, most leftists deny this. Perhaps hateful rhetoric can be legally excluded from an official or political setting, but you have no right to censor the public. You'll have to live with the fact that there is a free flow of information, and any society that attempts to suppress it won't end up well.
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you are finding it very difficult to make a distinction between the two:- Let me spoon feed you.

Example:- Going round calling someone worthy of death and encourage it in public irrelevant to whether its a personal opinion or through some form of Religion in the name of sin or through some superior ideology just because someone happen to be born Pale or with high melanin is not a right. Its a right out abuse. Who promotes these as you call it 'freedom of speech' are nothing but criminals that should be removed away from civil society. If one is offended through rational argument is one thing, but deliberate offense with cheap arguments and inciting hate and violence and is a different thing. No you have no right to do it or anyone else for that matter. Make an effort to see the difference.
 
LeBrok said:
Mind you that Roman Empire collapsed in 100 years after Christianity became State Religion.


You don't mind sharing his name and name of the paper where he claims that, do you?
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You are perfectly right, I should quote my souce:
Maurice Allais, Nouveaux Combats pour l’Europe, 1995-2002 : Un aveuglement suicidaire. Pour une autre Europe, éditions Clément Juglar, 2002,
he wrote exactly:
"When an additional migrant worker arrives, necessary infrastructure (housing, hospitals, schools, universities, infrastructure of all kinds, industrial facilities, etc.) will imply to have additional savings equal to four times the annual salary of the worker. If that worker arrives with a wife and three children, the necessary additional savings represent as appropriate, ten to twenty times the annual salary of the worker, which clearly represents a load for the economy very difficult to bear."
Maurice Allais Economy Nobel Prize.1988.
But it 's pretty sensible. When a democracy receive a migrant it's not only for working, that 's also as a citizen then it's realy like a host. When you invite a host at home, a guest , it's very nice but not free.
 
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bicicleur said:
where are you going to draw the line?
if you leave it to someones interpretation, there is no straigth line
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Indeed. Its defiantly an under debated subject and not many willing to make a link between the present hate/violent allowed propaganda and general negative current affairs. But things might change. Most people are not into this, but a few are driven and influenced, ending up with not so pleasant results.
 
Maleth said:
you are finding it very difficult to make a distinction between the two:- Let me spoon feed you.

Example:- Going round calling someone worthy of death and encourage it in public irrelevant to whether its a personal opinion or through some form of Religion in the name of sin or through some superior ideology just because someone happen to be born Pale or with high melanin is not a right. Its a right out abuse. Who promotes these as you call it 'freedom of speech' are nothing but criminals that should be removed away from civil society. If one is offended through rational argument is one thing, but deliberate offense with cheap arguments and inciting hate and violence and is a different thing. No you have no right to do it or anyone else for that matter. Make an effort to see the difference.
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Actually yes, that is a right. No need to spoonfeed. I would never do such a thing, nor would most people. I agree that inciting violence is dangerous- this is already prohibited in most European nations and America. People have the right to use whatever rhetoric they want, no matter how weak or hyperbolic, and you can't do anything about it. Sorry! :sad-2:
 
Maleth said:
Indeed. Its defiantly an under debated subject and not many willing to make a link between the present hate/violent allowed propaganda and general negative current affairs. But things might change. Most people are not into this, but a few are driven and influenced, ending up with not so pleasant results.
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Even people who aren't "into it", like myself, will still defend freedom of speech. Just not openly inciting violence or terrorism, as this is illegal and should be.
 
Dinarid said:
Actually yes, that is a right. No need to spoonfeed. I would never do such a thing, nor would most people. I agree that inciting violence is dangerous- this is already prohibited in most European nations and America. People have the right to use whatever rhetoric they want, no matter how weak or hyperbolic, and you can't do anything about it. Sorry! :sad-2:
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There is lots one can do about it. The silent majority should not ignore it and speak up and things will change. There are countless posts of (example Facebook) which do exactly that, incite hate and violence and are only removed if people report it. Many of them are still there to see. Locally a person has been arraigned in court for hoping asylum seekers in Sweden were burning there. And you know what?. He got nothing, because the law is relevant for local incitement and hate. There are many ways round being prohibited and much more then anyone would like to think. Of course there are things that civil society can do to stop which seems an accepted madness. Being quite would make one accomplice.

http://www.timesofmalta.com/article...g-racial-hatred-to-be-updated-minister.614251
 
Maleth said:
There is lots one can do about it. The silent majority should not ignore it and speak up and things will change. There are countless posts of (example Facebook) which do exactly that, incite hate and violence and are only removed if people report it. Many of them are still there to see. Locally a person has been arraigned in court for hoping asylum seekers in Sweden were burning there. And you know what?. He got nothing, because the law is relevant for local incitement and hate. There are many ways round being prohibited and much more then anyone would like to think. Of course there are things that civil society can do to stop which seems an accepted madness. Being quite would make one accomplice.

http://www.timesofmalta.com/article...g-racial-hatred-to-be-updated-minister.614251
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So what should be the response to the cause of such sentiments? Perhaps there are legitimate concerns about excessive immigration and the hatred will continue until something is done.
 
Dinarid said:
So what should be the response to the cause of such sentiments? Perhaps there are legitimate concerns about excessive immigration and the hatred will continue until something is done.
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Concerns are legitimate like any others. Free and democratic states have a multitude of channels how to express them. Protests, media, voting patterns and others. Analyzing the cause of hate and what leads to it with factual information with good quality education and professional people can also help to confirm or diffuse some legitimate concerns. Acting on impulse is just a 'savage' trait pushing mankind backwards
 
LeBrok said:
Mind you that Roman Empire collapsed in 100 years after Christianity became State Religion.


You don't mind sharing his name and name of the paper where he claims that, do you?
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https://www.usu.edu/markdamen/1320Hist&Civ/chapters/08ROMFAL.htm
And some of these answers have come from very good scholars, the likes of Edward Gibbon, the pre-eminent classical historian of England in the later half of the eighteenth century. Brilliant though it was, the thesis he expounded in his monumental and highly engaging magnum opus The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire—he argued that the rise of Christianity emasculated the native vigor of Rome, leaving it open to more virile conquerors, i.e. barbarians—is a proposition full of holes and inconsistencies, saying in the end less about the Roman Empire than its British counterpart, the hidden target of Gibbon's book. For example, if Christianity so weakened the Roman West in late antiquity, why didn't it weaken the other half, the staunchly orthodox East which survived nearly a millennium after the collapse of the West? Perhaps it's true that Christianity redirected the attention of many Romans away from affairs of state, but it did not undermine their civilization. To the contrary, it was as natural an outgrowth of their culture, as "Roman" as all sorts of other things they did: theatre, epic poetry, gladiators, ship-building, all of which were imports, just like Christianity.
 
Angela said:
This time it's a 17 year old Afghan refugee on a train hacking at people with an ax and a knife.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/germany-train-axe-attack-live-8445573

Every couple of days it's something else. In the U.S. it's cop killings every few days, or marches because a young black man has been killed by a policeman.

The Republican Presidential nominating convention is also all over the airwaves. It's one of those times when I actually wish I drank more instead of less.

The more left wing news sites are already calling it the "angry white men's convention".
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the 'white angry men' convention may be intimidating for some
but I think there are some more important challenges going on
some here allready have compared Trump with Erdogan or Putin and are talking about the end of American democracy
they are way out of line and should question their own faith in democracy
 
gyms said:
https://www.usu.edu/markdamen/1320Hist&Civ/chapters/08ROMFAL.htm
And some of these answers have come from very good scholars, the likes of Edward Gibbon, the pre-eminent classical historian of England in the later half of the eighteenth century. Brilliant though it was, the thesis he expounded in his monumental and highly engaging magnum opus The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire—he argued that the rise of Christianity emasculated the native vigor of Rome, leaving it open to more virile conquerors, i.e. barbarians—is a proposition full of holes and inconsistencies, saying in the end less about the Roman Empire than its British counterpart, the hidden target of Gibbon's book. For example, if Christianity so weakened the Roman West in late antiquity, why didn't it weaken the other half, the staunchly orthodox East which survived nearly a millennium after the collapse of the West? Perhaps it's true that Christianity redirected the attention of many Romans away from affairs of state, but it did not undermine their civilization. To the contrary, it was as natural an outgrowth of their culture, as "Roman" as all sorts of other things they did: theatre, epic poetry, gladiators, ship-building, all of which were imports, just like Christianity.
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the Romans didn't fight themselves any more
they left their defence in the hands of mercenaries allready before Christianity
those mercenaries weren't fidel to Rome, they were fidel to their general
with horrible civil wars as a consequence
 
bicicleur said:
the 'white angry men' convention may be intimidating for some
but I think there are some more important challenges going on
some here allready have compared Trump with Erdogan or Putin and are talking about the end of American democracy
they are way out of line and should question their own faith in democracy
Click to expand...

I think that view, that these are just angry white men, is short-sighted. Many people, women as well as men, are uneasy and anxious about the future. When wages have been stagnant for so long, and blue collar people see so many immigrants arriving and taking so many of those jobs, they are going to be fearful. The only thing that stands between a peaceful society and chaos is the rule of law. When people see policemen being gunned down in the street, they're frightened. Then, the news on television and radio is full of coverage of ghastly attack after ghastly attack. I don't think it's absurd for people to fear that what is happening in Europe could happen here, especially when we've had our own attacks.

If people didn't have such concerns about Trump's temperament, his lack of knowledge of world affairs, his attitude toward women, and on and on, I would be worried that he'd win in a landslide, with a mandate to do just about anything.

He also is making a big mistake, in my opinion, by not coupling concern about these things with a positive outlook and message for the future. Americans are all about optimism; they don't just want to be told what's wrong with the country; they want to be told that it can be fixed.

If he wants to win he'd also best get onto the economy. That's equally as important to most people.

We'll see what Clinton does at her convention. She's taken a real hit over this e-mail controversy. Anyone else who did this would have faced serious consequences. Can she really be this stupid and incompetent? That she's a liar and corrupt everyone already knew.
 
This is a seriously unhelpful analysis, in my opinion. The most important "sins", for a Christian, are those involved in breaking one of the Ten Commandments:

This is from the New Catholic Bible, which is really the same as the Old Catholic Bible. :)

"1. I, the Lord, am your God. You shall not have other gods besides me.

2. You shall not take the name of the Lord God in vain

3. Remember to keep holy the Lord's Day

4. Honor your father and your mother

5. You shall not kill

6. You shall not commit adultery

7. You shall not steal

8. You shall not bear false witness

9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife

10. You shall not covet your neighbor's goods"

They are "lifted", if you will, from the Old Testament.
http://www.catholicbible101.com/thetencommandments.htm

From the New Testament:

"Matthew 22:36-40New International Version (NIV)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

As to Islam, this is an article on a letter sent by 138 Muslim scholars to the Pope.
http://www.acommonword.com/the-letter-of-138-muslim-scholars-to-the-pope-and-christian-leaders/
"On coming to the content of the letter what is immediately striking is the fact that the title has been taken from the Koran: “A Common Word between Us and You” (Sura of the family of Imran, 3:64). This is what Mohammed says to the Christians in the Koran: when he sees that he cannot reach agreement with them, then he says: Come let us agree on at least one common ground: that we shall worship none but God (the oneness of God) “and that we shall ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for lords beside God.”

Also,
"The structure of the letter is composed of three parts: the first is entitled “love of god”, subdivided into two, “love of god in Islam” and “love of god as the first and greatest commandment in the bible”."

"The second part is entitled “love of the neighbour” (hubb al-jâr). Also subdivided in two: «love of the neighbour in Islam» and « love of the neighbour in the Bible». Where once again the original Arabic says “in the Gospel”."

How can it have escaped this so called analyst how similar the theology is, in broad terms?

Of course, there are differences. Islam speaks really not of "love" of God, but of obedience, submission. There are other differences. Yes, the hadithas amplified upon it, and are a product of a different culture, a non-European culture. Likewise, the Talmud amplifies upon Jewish scripture and contains precepts not found in the Christian tradition. However, the similarities are profound. All three traditions are called "Religions of the Book", and all three are based on belief in ONE GOD, not many.

Have you ever read the Koran? I have, as part of a Comparative Religion course at university. I just re-read it a couple of years ago to try to get a handle on these things Huge swathes of it are lifted from the Old Testament and the New Testament. Mary is venerated, as is Jesus, as a great prophet. You should read it; you would find that a lot of it echoes what is in both the Old and the New Testaments.

I very much object to some of the demonization of all Muslims, all people from the Middle East really, that is going on in some quarters. If personal experience is any guide, I've found them as individuals to be almost universally warm, generous, engaging, and kind. Their religion formed them in almost all cases, and you couldn't meet better people. They shouldn't be treated less than respectfully because some of their brainwashed or mentally ill compatriots are wreaking havoc not only on us but on them as well.

As others have said, however, the big difference is that the theology of both Judaism and Christianity, except in the more conservative branches, has moved on since the Middle Ages, while that of Islam as a whole has not, in my opinion. That doesn't mean that it can't or won't. Some of this can be laid at the feet of the Wahabi Saudis, who fund many, many madrassas all over the world which teach the most extreme and conservative form of Islam.

One final point: could you please provide the link to the video? I want to check out the organization that is putting these videos out. We don't want this Board to become a dumping ground for deceptive, misleading propaganda by one hate group or another.
 
Angela:"I very much object to some of the demonization of all Muslims, all people from the Middle East really, that is going on in some quarters. If personal experience is any guide, I've found them as individuals to be almost universally warm, generous, engaging, and kind. Their religion formed them in almost all cases, and you couldn't meet better people. They shouldn't be treated less than respectfully because some of their brainwashed or mentally ill compatriots are wreaking havoc not only on us but on them as well."
The controversial Canadian author Irshad Manji discusses Islamophobia and the need to reform Islam.
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/headtohead/2013/06/201361091619207870.html
 
gyms said:
Angela:"I very much object to some of the demonization of all Muslims, all people from the Middle East really, that is going on in some quarters. If personal experience is any guide, I've found them as individuals to be almost universally warm, generous, engaging, and kind. Their religion formed them in almost all cases, and you couldn't meet better people. They shouldn't be treated less than respectfully because some of their brainwashed or mentally ill compatriots are wreaking havoc not only on us but on them as well."
The controversial Canadian author Irshad Manji discusses Islamophobia and the need to reform Islam.
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/headtohead/2013/06/201361091619207870.html
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Did you just embraced a moderate Muslim and Muslim feminist in fight against Islamic fundamentalism?!!! I'm so proud of you!!! She is one of my heroes.
 
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