Politics Far-right wins elections in Austria

[Maciamo]

Euronews: Austria's Freedom Party secures first far-right election win since World War II

"Austria's Freedom Party (Freiheitliche Partei Österreich) has secured the first parliamentary election victory for a far-right party in post-World War II Austria.

A projection for ORF public television, based on counting of over 90% of the vote, showed the Freedom Party finishing first with 29.2%.

That win has pushed Chancellor Karl Nehammer’s Austrian People's Party (Österreichische Volkspartei) into second place, with 26.5%."

Here is an analysis of the results with a summary of what each party stands for.

I wouldn't say that the results are shocking as anyway with 29% of the votes the FPÖ cannot rule alone and may not even be able to form a coalition with another party. The same thing has happened in other European countries. Even when the far right comes on top, it doesn't have enough seats to rule one its own and most other parties are reluctant to team up with them.

It's also not very surprising to see that a good share of the ruling Austrian People's Party have gone to the FPÖ due to the corruption scandals involving former chancellor Sebastian Kurz as well as former deputy chancellor and party leader, Heinz-Christian Strache.

There is something never quite understand about many European far-right parties though. They are typically anti-Islam and anti-gay (or anti-LGBTQ) at the same time. Considering that Islam is the most anti-LGBTQ religion, the attitude of the Far Right is both nonsensical and contradictory. For example the FPÖ proposed constitutional amendment declaring the existence of only two genders. They are basically supporting medieval Muslim values and an antiquated view of society. Why do they want to deport Muslims then? The main argument against Muslim immigrants is that many cannot adapt to modern Western values, notably in their attitude towards women and LGBTQ. Then the Far Right advocates exactly those outdated values!

The Greens have performed badly, but that can also be attributed to their too accommodating attitude towards poor Muslim immigrants. That is also nonsensical as Muslims (and Christian fundamentalists) are generally among the least likely to support environmental policies or to lead a lifestyle that matches green ideals (recycling, buying sustainable products, etc.). So why are they cosying up to the Muslim population?

 

[Riverman]

Obviously Islam is not just about LGBTQ and Feminism. Also, not every muslim has the same view on Islam. Radical Islam, especially the Salafists, on the other hand is way more restrictive on so many levels, in some cases even compared to Medieval Christianity, that it would disrupt the very fabric of occidental civilisation or probably civilisation as such. That can be best exemplified by the case of Afghanistan, where even the Taliban regime is under constant attack by the new regional IS branch, because they are, from their point of view, still not "truly Islamic" enough...

Also, I wouldn't overestimate the role of "anti-Islamism" in this kind of elections at all. "Far right" is also a relative term, since parties being called that way in Europe and abroad which might be vastly different in detail. Plus many positions the current "Far Right" holds were still mainstream in the 1980's or even much more recently (if talking about LGBTQ for example).

In fact, they are still mainstream in the general population, but not in the political administration and so called "elite", which might be exactly the problem and the reason why new parties gets the votes, beside many other factors, like a worsening socio-economic situation and rampant inflation etc.

 

[Maciamo]

Obviously the conflict between Western values and Islam is not limited to LGBTQ rights and feminism. But the examples you give about the Talibans are not really irrelevant in the case of Muslim immigrants to Europe as they cannot change the legislation in European countries. Some of them may wish to impose Sharia law in Europe but it's just not going to happen.

Personally I have no problem with Muslims (or Jews) refraining from drinking alcohol or eating pork. That's a personal choice that does not limit the freedom of other people. What would be problematic is immigrants who want to completely ban alcohol and pork in their host European country, especially if it's for religious reasons.

One of the fundamental differences between Western countries and many developing countries (not necessarily Muslim ones) is that Western countries generally agree that people should have freedom to lead their personal lives the way they like as long as it does not interfere with the freedom and well-being of other people. That's why I support LGBTQ rights even though I am straight.

Likewise, I almost completely stopped drinking alcohol because it considerably increases the risk of developing cancer. But if other people want to drink alcohol I have no problem with it. That's also why I have always been in favour of legalising most recreational drugs even though I would never use them personally. Individuals are ultimately responsible for their own health and well-being.

So when I hear that far right parties want to ban homosexually (like in Hungary) or things like that, it makes me think that they are not better than Muslim fundamentalists.

 

[Riverman]

Obviously the conflict between Western values and Islam is not limited to LGBTQ rights and feminism. But the examples you give about the Talibans are not really irrelevant in the case of Muslim immigrants to Europe as they cannot change the legislation in European countries. Some of them may wish to impose Sharia law in Europe but it's just not going to happen.

The main problem of all Western populations is the combination of a weak demography with much too low birth rates, especially in the middle-upper classes, plus a growing immigration of foreigners which became culturally more and more distant by every decade.

It is this combination which causes the problems, since the local population gets replaced over time. And since both birth rates and immigration from people with a conservative Islamic background are high, this is and will become a real issue.

On the other hand, the LGBTQ-radical Gender/Feminist ideology doesn't really help with stable partnerships, marriages and birth rates, but pushes divorce rates and increases the frequency of childless individuals, therefore further aggravating the fundamental demographic problem. Since this ideology is also helpful in disseminating ideas of the radical left ("wokeness") in general, which is radically pro open borders, it also aggravates the immigration problem - unfiltered immigration.

This again aggravates the social situation for the lower and middle classes and puts additional strain on the social and economic system as a whole.
To give an example, in some areas of Germany there is a lack of workforce. The immigrants that come in en masse, are either not able nor willing to fill in the gaps and to do those jobs, therefore the German federal or regional administration, or the companies and institutions themselves, have to recruit professionals from other foreign countries ADDITIONALLY!

Therefore its not just that too many immigrants come in, but also "the wrong ones", namely a lot of people which will end up in the social system as takers, not as givers, while being socio-culturally problem cases as well (high rates of violence, delinquency and religious extremism).

This is even true if talking about the same people. Like I was growing up with classmates from a specific country, which came in as refugees. They had a Muslim background and they were refugees. They did very well in school and were doing their best to get ahead. However, they came from the upper class of their country. Now we have tens of thousands of people from the same country, and they are nowhere close to the standards those early refugees from the 1990's had. The problem is therefore not only their specific ethnic, cultural or religious background, but the sheer number and their social-ideological background.

And its this kind of unfiltered mass immigration which causes the troubles, even if, like in this case, immigrants from the same country, with the same ethnic and religious background, were perfectly integrable in small numbers and if having a specific social and ideological background.

It is, after all, also problem of size, of sheer magnitude. It makes a huge difference whether you get 0,5 % immigrants from a specific group of people within one generation, or you get the same number of immigrants every year. The first causes no trouble, the second does.

 

[Maciamo]

The main problem of all Western populations is the combination of a weak demography with much too low birth rates, especially in the middle-upper classes, plus a growing immigration of foreigners which became culturally more and more distant by every decade.

It is this combination which causes the problems, since the local population gets replaced over time. And since both birth rates and immigration from people with a conservative Islamic background are high, this is and will become a real issue.

Birth rates are falling everywhere across the globe, but it's true that they tend to be higher in Muslim countries and also in Muslim communities in Europe.

On the other hand, the LGBTQ-radical Gender/Feminist ideology doesn't really help with stable partnerships, marriages and birth rates, but pushes divorce rates and increases the frequency of childless individuals, therefore further aggravating the fundamental demographic problem.

I completely disagree. People don't choose to become homosexual. It's something people are born with. By legalising gay marriage or gay civil partnership, it provides a chance for Lesbian couples to conceive (through a donor) and have families. In a society that stigmatises or prohibits lesbian unions or relationships, they would remain childless, which would worsen the demographic decline in the West. Likewise gay men can conceive through a surrogate mother and egg donor, or they can adopt children from teen mothers or impoverished single mothers who would otherwise have to abort as they cannot afford to become mothers. This is only possible if gay couples have the same status as heterosexual couples. Considering that somewhere between 5 and 10% of the population identifies as homosexual in any country (where people can freely mention it), LGBT rights are greatly helping with the demographic crisis.

Since this ideology is also helpful in disseminating ideas of the radical left ("wokeness") in general, which is radically pro open borders, it also aggravates the immigration problem - unfiltered immigration.

What do you mean by that? I thought that Woke ideology was mainly to fight racial injustice and racism, especially in the US.

This again aggravates the social situation for the lower and middle classes and puts additional strain on the social and economic system as a whole.
To give an example, in some areas of Germany there is a lack of workforce. The immigrants that come in en masse, are either not able nor willing to fill in the gaps and to do those jobs, therefore the German federal or regional administration, or the companies and institutions themselves, have to recruit professionals from other foreign countries ADDITIONALLY!

Therefore its not just that too many immigrants come in, but also "the wrong ones", namely a lot of people which will end up in the social system as takers, not as givers, while being socio-culturally problem cases as well (high rates of violence, delinquency and religious extremism).

I have been saying for over 20 years that developed countries should only accept skilled immigrants and especially those in sectors with labour shortages. Additionally they should avoid as much as possible potential candidates from Muslim countries as it has been demonstrated times and again in all Western countries that Muslims have more difficult to integrate in Western society than non-Muslims.

One reason why I favour greater European integration within the EU is that labour shortages in one city, region or country can be filled by EU citizens from other countries. The United States is an excellent example of this. Americans are much more likely to move to other states to find a job than Europeans. One reason is that the US is (mostly) English-speaking everywhere. English is already the de facto international language and lingua franca between Europeans. In Belgium the government has always pushed Dutch speakers to learn French and French speakers to learn Dutch, rather than English. But that didn't work. Younger Belgians from either side of the linguistic border are far more likely to communicate with each others in English than in the other national language. If all governments encouraged more English-language education the labour market within the EU would be much more flexible and there would be less need to seek non-European immigrants to fill job vacancies.

It is, after all, also problem of size, of sheer magnitude. It makes a huge difference whether you get 0,5 % immigrants from a specific group of people within one generation, or you get the same number of immigrants every year. The first causes no trouble, the second does.

I agree.

 

[Riverman]

I completely disagree. People don't choose to become homosexual. It's something people are born with.

That is only true for people, especially males, with a strong homosexual tendency. Those are homosexual from an early age on and have difficulty to live a heterosexual life. As long as they behave in public, they can do whatever they want in their home and I don't mind them having a legal partnership or even marriage, if that's what they really want to.

However, the same can't be said for people on the bisexual spectrum, and especially not for females. Females are much more mouldable and less strict about their sexual preferences, therefore they can, quite often, kind of choose what kind of relationship they go for. If e.g. a homosexual partnership has a higher social value (let's say among Hollywood celebrities these days) and there is an additional ideological incentive ("Lesbianism is Feminist sexuality") than many young females which would otherwise have had a regular, heterosexual relationship, end up in a homosexual one.
Let's say the strictly homosexual potential is around 1-5 percent, but the bisexual is 5-15 %, which means by promoting bisexualism/homosexualism, there will be an additional 10 % (all hypthetical numbers, but that's the ballpark) of non-heterosexual relationships due to the sociocultural milieu.

Also, I wrote about LGBTQ/radical Feminist ideology, which, combined, reduce the number of stable heterosexual relationships with multiple children. The emphasis is on combined.

Again, there is a difference between tolerance of people which would have been homosexually oriented anyway ("born with") vs. promoting and fully equalizing, ideologically, homosexuality. You can also see, that gender identity issues and homosexual practises are way more common among children of "woke" parents, which kind of promote these tendencies.

I have no issues with homosexuals or people with gender identity issues as such, but with the ideological abuse, instrumentalisation and propaganda which harms society as a whole. These are two different issues to me, its the difference of private vs. public/political sphere. That's like drag queens in a gay club vs. drag queen shows for kindergarten children. Two very different issues. First is fine, second is not.

And to stress it again: Especially female sexuality is to some degree more fluid, with many females which are now going for homosexual partners wouldn't have done the same, even if having the choice, no legal threats, if the social-ideological milieu wouldn't promote is as much. There is a baseline of (strictly) homosexuals, among females also, but this baseline is much lower than the potential.

 

[Maciamo]

That is only true for people, especially males, with a strong homosexual tendency. Those are homosexual from an early age on and have difficulty to live a heterosexual life. As long as they behave in public, they can do whatever they want in their home and I don't mind them having a legal partnership or even marriage, if that's what they really want to.

However, the same can't be said for people on the bisexual spectrum, and especially not for females. Females are much more mouldable and less strict about their sexual preferences, therefore they can, quite often, kind of choose what kind of relationship they go for. If e.g. a homosexual partnership has a higher social value (let's say among Hollywood celebrities these days) and there is an additional ideological incentive ("Lesbianism is Feminist sexuality") than many young females which would otherwise have had a regular, heterosexual relationship, end up in a homosexual one.
Let's say the strictly homosexual potential is around 1-5 percent, but the bisexual is 5-15 %, which means by promoting bisexualism/homosexualism, there will be an additional 10 % (all hypthetical numbers, but that's the ballpark) of non-heterosexual relationships due to the sociocultural milieu.

Also, I wrote about LGBTQ/radical Feminist ideology, which, combined, reduce the number of stable heterosexual relationships with multiple children. The emphasis is on combined.

Again, there is a difference between tolerance of people which would have been homosexually oriented anyway ("born with") vs. promoting and fully equalizing, ideologically, homosexuality. You can also see, that gender identity issues and homosexual practises are way more common among children of "woke" parents, which kind of promote these tendencies.

I have no issues with homosexuals or people with gender identity issues as such, but with the ideological abuse, instrumentalisation and propaganda which harms society as a whole. These are two different issues to me, its the difference of private vs. public/political sphere. That's like drag queens in a gay club vs. drag queen shows for kindergarten children. Two very different issues. First is fine, second is not.

And to stress it again: Especially female sexuality is to some degree more fluid, with many females which are now going for homosexual partners wouldn't have done the same, even if having the choice, no legal threats, if the social-ideological milieu wouldn't promote is as much. There is a baseline of (strictly) homosexuals, among females also, but this baseline is much lower than the potential.

What are your sources regarding your assertion that female sexuality is more fluid?

I asked chat GPT about it and here is the answer I got:

"The idea that women are inherently more "mouldable" or flexible in their sexual preferences is a claim rooted in stereotypes rather than clear scientific consensus. Sexuality, including sexual preferences and orientation, is complex and varies greatly among individuals regardless of gender.

Research does suggest that women, on average, may exhibit more sexual fluidity than men. Sexual fluidity refers to the capacity for a person’s sexual attractions and experiences to change over time, sometimes depending on the context or emotional connection. However, this doesn’t mean that women can simply choose their sexual orientation or relationships at will. Sexual orientation—whether heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or otherwise—is a deeply personal and often innate aspect of identity for most people."


Nevertheless, even if in some cases homosexuality could be a choice, I reiterate my argument that this would not decrease the birth rate so long as assisted reproduction, including sperm donation, is legal for same-sex couples. I verified in which countries this was the case.

Here’s a list of European countries where it is legal for same-sex couples (lesbian couples) to access assisted reproduction, including sperm donation:

1. Belgium
2. Denmark
3. Finland
4. France
5. Iceland
6. Ireland
7. Luxembourg
8. Netherlands
9. Norway
10. Portugal
11. Spain
12. Sweden
13. Australia
14. Canada
15. New Zealand
16. United States

In the following countries it is partially legal or the status is unclear (not explicitly legal or illegal).

1. Austria
2. Croatia
3. Czechia
4. Germany
5. Greece
6. Slovenia
7. Switzerland

In the European Union it is only illegal in:

1. Bulgaria
2. Hungary
3. Italy
4. Poland
5. Romania
6. Slovakia


The countries where it is illegal are basically causing their population to decline faster. Not only are same-sex couple not able to conceive there legally, but many of them will actually migrate to more permissive countries. A similar phenomenon can be observed in the US. While assisted recreation is legal in over 50 states tolerance towards LGBTQ vary a lot by region, Which anchorages LGBTQ people to migrate from conservative states (Bible Belt, Great Plains in Rocky Mountains) towards more tolerant states like on the West coast and in the Northeast. In Europe there is a movement of LGBTQ people from Eastern and Central Europe to more tolerant and permissive Western Europe.

 

[Riverman]

It is a visible and notable fact that Lesbian relationships grew disproportionally in the recent decades and among the younger women. Many of which had previous relationships with males, many of which say themselves they are bisexual and could as well have sexual activities primarily with males. Therefore the situation of females, at least in the current societal setting, is fundamentally different from that of males, since a much larger proportion of males would never switch in a similar fashion sexual orientation, of choosing partners.

Also, even if ignoring the societal and ideological implications of children which being raised in same sex partnership households, it is pretty obvious that the numbers of births from those partnerships and households are generally lower than those from heterosexual partnerships.

I mean that's not the primary problem we are facing, its probably just a remote issue, but fact is that the LGBTQ/woke/radical Feminist trends caused an increase of same sex couples and a decrease of birth rates, together with other factors of course.

 

[ZZZZ1111]

It is a visible and notable fact that Lesbian relationships grew disproportionally in the recent decades and among the younger women. Many of which had previous relationships with males, many of which say themselves they are bisexual and could as well have sexual activities primarily with males. Therefore the situation of females, at least in the current societal setting, is fundamentally different from that of males, since a much larger proportion of males would never switch in a similar fashion sexual orientation, of choosing partners.

Also, even if ignoring the societal and ideological implications of children which being raised in same sex partnership households, it is pretty obvious that the numbers of births from those partnerships and households are generally lower than those from heterosexual partnerships.

I mean that's not the primary problem we are facing, its probably just a remote issue, but fact is that the LGBTQ/woke/radical Feminist trends caused an increase of same sex couples and a decrease of birth rates, together with other factors of course.

Society is overcomplicated, especially when it comes to dating and women, like farm fences where bulls can never touch cows,Muslims have their own little circles and it's easier, the same goes for Jews. That the higher the "modernization", the lower the birth rate. This is generally the case.
This problem will arise when women receive modern education, then feminist ideas sprout, and their traditional concepts are not strong.

 

[Maciamo]

This problem will arise when women receive modern education, then feminist ideas sprout, and their traditional concepts are not strong.

That's another misconception. Birth rates fall when economic development increases, but not because of feminist ideas and not because societies become less traditional.

Here's a 2024 map of countries by fertility rate. Blue indicates negative fertility rates. Red indicates positive rates. You can see that Muslim countries like Turkey, Iran or Malaysia have low fertility, actually even lower than countries like France, the UK or the US. Yet you cannot say that Iran is a feminist country.

Iran is a good example. It's still traditional and religious, but because it's considerably more developed than neighbouring Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq, birth rates in Iran are much lower.

Sweden is probably the most feminist country in the world (followed closely by other Scandinavian countries) and yet Sweden and other Scandinavian countries have some of the highest fertility rates in Europe (1.7 births per woman). Only France, Britain and Ireland have slightly higher rates (1.8).

In contrast, more traditionalist and less feminist countries like Poland, Ukraine, Romania, Bosnia, Italy and Greece have some of the lowest fertility rates in Europe. Apart from Greece, these are all countries that generally have negative attitudes towards LGBT's. Ukraine, Cyprus, Bosnia, Italy, Malta and Spain are the countries with the lowest fertility rates in Europe and they're all religious and traditional (although Spain has been changing fast over the last generation). In Western Europe the lowest birth rate after Spain is in Portugal, which is by far the most religious and traditional country on the Atlantic coast of Europe.

Another examples that feminism has little to do with fertility rates is that countries like Japan, South Korea and China, where feminism isn't really a thing, have some of the lowest birth rates in the world. Obviously in China the one child policy had a role in this but it ended a few years ago and birth rates have not picked up. I have lived in Japan and the country still has very strong traditional gender roles. Women are expected to quit their job once they get married and to stay at home to raise the children. The gender pay gap is the highest in the developed world. The way Japanese men and women behave and speak in everyday life is markedly different — shockingly more so than in any Western country. The point is that traditional values and gender roles do not contribute at all to increase the fertility rates.

I've given a lot of thoughts about this issue over the years and I came to the conclusion that economic development, health and safety the far more important in lowering the fertility rates than anything else. War and infant mortality are conversely the biggest factors increasing birth rates.

 

[ZZZZ1111]

That's another misconception. Birth rates fall when economic development increases, but not because of feminist ideas and not because societies become less traditional.

Here's a 2024 map of countries by fertility rate. Blue indicates negative fertility rates. Red indicates positive rates. You can see that Muslim countries like Turkey, Iran or Malaysia have low fertility, actually even lower than countries like France, the UK or the US. Yet you cannot say that Iran is a feminist country.

Iran is a good example. It's still traditional and religious, but because it's considerably more developed than neighbouring Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq, birth rates in Iran are much lower.

View attachment 16705

Sweden is probably the most feminist country in the world (followed closely by other Scandinavian countries) and yet Sweden and other Scandinavian countries have some of the highest fertility rates in Europe (1.7 births per woman). Only France, Britain and Ireland have slightly higher rates (1.8).

In contrast, more traditionalist and less feminist countries like Poland, Ukraine, Romania, Bosnia, Italy and Greece have some of the lowest fertility rates in Europe. Apart from Greece, these are all countries that generally have negative attitudes towards LGBT's. Ukraine, Cyprus, Bosnia, Italy, Malta and Spain are the countries with the lowest fertility rates in Europe and they're all religious and traditional (although Spain has been changing fast over the last generation). In Western Europe the lowest birth rate after Spain is in Portugal, which is by far the most religious and traditional country on the Atlantic coast of Europe.

In the end its still women's mind changing,or their family became less traditional

 

[Riverman]

In the end its still women's mind changing,or their family became less traditional

Exactly. This is particularly striking within a given society. Even in an urban, prosperous setting, couples from traditionally living, pro-natal religious groups can have very high birth rates under conditions, like small living space, most non-idealistic/Religions couples wouldn't get more than two kids, if any at all.
The decisive factor is therefore always the mindset, personal values, personality and ideology/religion.

In my area, women coming from more traditional families have much higher rates of having any children and multiple children than those from non-traditional backgrounds which live in a city for generations.

That rural : urban dichotomy played a big role in these elections also, with conservative to right votes being by far more dominant on the countryside.

 

[Duarte]

In the end its still women's mind changing,or their family became less traditional

I think that Brazilian youth are absolutely right in their reproductive choises:

'Sempre soube que não queria ser mãe', diz jovem de 22 anos laqueada; esterilização voluntária entre mais novos cresce no Brasil | Saúde | O Globo

Vasectomia e a laqueadura apresentaram um aumento significativo desde a diminuição da idade mínima por lei, mostram dados do Ministério da Saúde

oglobo.globo.com

I always knew I didn't want to be a mother', says 22-year-old woman who underwent tubal ligation; voluntary sterilization among younger people is on the rise in Brazil

Vasectomy and tubal ligation have seen a significant increase since the minimum age was lowered by law, data from the Ministry of Health shows

ByRachel Pereira - Rio de Janeiro

07/17/2024 04h30 Updated2 months ago

Gabrielle Lotti, 22, chose to have her tubal ligation even though she doesn't have children Personal archive

The change in Brazilian law in September 2022, which allows voluntary sterilization from the age of 21, even without children, and no longer requires the consent of a spouse, has increased the demand for tubal ligation and vasectomy. Both procedures are part of what is called family planning, a right guaranteed to every citizen to define their reproductive future.

According to data from a survey conducted by the Ministry of Health, the number of women seeking by the contraceptive procedure jumped from 54,222 cases in the year the new law was enacted to 98,019 in 2023, an increase of 80.77%. The number of male seeking by the contraceptive procedure jumped from 67,689 to 95,209 in the same period, 40.63% more surgeries.

This has caught the attention of professionals in the field, as the choice for voluntary sterilization has been made mainly by young, childless people of both sexes.

Making access viable attracts young people

The decision to not have children through voluntary sterilization has several stages. When considering using the public system, the first step is to visit a basic health unit (UBS), where the patient is referred to a family planning clinic and then to the professionals responsible for monitoring the case.

Furthermore, it includes the signing of several documents and carrying out tests to confirm the absence of psychological disorders that put consciousness at risk or that determine that the person cannot receive anesthesia.

Previously, legislation 9.263/1996 stipulated that sterilization could only be performed from the age of 25, and that the express consent of the spouse was mandatory for both surgeries. However, sterilization was free to be performed at any age in the case of people with two living children.

For Yasmin Koury, 21, the change in the law came as a relief. She had considered waiting until she turned 25, but after reaching the new minimum age in August 2023, she was able to file the paperwork for a tubal ligation sooner than expected.

— I had the surgery on June 5, 2024, almost a year after I filed the request for tubal ligation. I feel relieved. Even though there is a chance of failure, the contraceptive chances are very high when you combine it with other methods, such as the IUD and condoms — says the archaeologist, a master's student at the Federal University of Pernambuco (UFPE).

Her post about the subject went viral on the social network X. In it, Yasmin shared a photo lying down right after the end of the procedure and quotes in the caption the well-known phrase by the writer Machado de Assis: “I didn't have children, I didn't pass on the legacy of our misery to any creature”.

— I always knew I didn't want to be a mother. As a child, I played with my friends and never wanted to be my doll's mother. I was a sister, a friend or a neighbor — says Yasmin, who underwent the procedure through her health insurance.

Gabrielle Lotti, 22, managed to undergo the procedure on April 10 this year, but had already sought out a health center in Palmeira das Missões, in the interior of Rio Grande do Sul, a year ago.

The new rules had a period of 180 days until they came into effect. Therefore, they only came into effect in the country on March 2, 2023.

— As soon as the protocol was sent, the health assistants at my local health center contacted me immediately and I started the documentation process. The surgery went extremely smoothly and the recovery has also been easy. I was afraid of the post-operative care, but in the end it was easier than I imagined — she says.

After successfully completing the procedure, the young woman began sharing her journey to sterilization through the Unified Health System (SUS) on the TikTok platform to help other women interested in doing the same.

— Since tubal ligation is still a taboo subject, there is not much information about it. This is probably because those who undergo the procedure are often the target of prejudice and insults. So I decided to share my experience to inform, clarify doubts and encourage those who have already made this decision but are still afraid and don't know where to start — she explains.

In the case of Matheus Duarte, 26, as soon as he entered adulthood, a vasectomy became a possibility, but he preferred to wait until he was older before starting to look for one.

This year, the administrative assistant made the decision not to have children and will continue with the process to have a vasectomy by the end of next year.

— I started to consider this choice because since I was a teenager I was always aware that I didn't want to have any children and today I still have this thought. I believe that the procedure would be the most efficient way to have a more structured plan for this — she ponders.

Reproductive autonomy

In this context, Jimena de Garay, professor of psychology at the State University of Rio de Janeiro (Uerj), notes that the change brought about by the new law guarantees a greater capacity for reproductive autonomy for the new generation.

— How women feel about motherhood, the fear of getting pregnant or creating a human being from scratch, are fears and concerns that have always existed. This applies to men as well. People now know that they can decide what to do with their own bodies. There is no longer that social obligation to be a mother to be a woman or to be a father to be a man as before. Furthermore, only now is medical technology being able to contemplate this decision not to procreate — highlights the researcher in the area of sexual and reproductive rights.

Another element is the growing concern about the future, according to the psychologist.

— The world seems to be “tighter”, more unequal, with more difficulties in planning a future and finding a job, from the perspective of young people. That is why many choose not to have children — analyzes Garay.

According to gynecologist Ilza Maria Urbano Monteiro, a member of the Brazilian Federation of Gynecology and Obstetrics Associations (Febrasgo) and who works for the Unified Health System (SUS), the queues for surgical intervention are getting longer in both public and private hospitals.

For the tubal ligation specialist, the high demand is due to a combination of factors. One of them is the scope of the power of choice, which, according to the new law, does not depend on the partner's approval. Another is the reduction of the minimum age to 21 years, increasing the scope of people.

— There is indeed an increase in demand among the younger population, not necessarily just in the 21 to 25 age group. I believe that the possibility of performing tubal ligation during a cesarean section or after childbirth has also facilitated access — he states.

From the same point of view, gynecologist and obstetrician Karina Tafner, from Hospital Santa Casa de São Paulo, notes that reversibility can bring greater safety to women who opt for ligation. However, just like men interested in having a vasectomy, they need to go through the required 60 days of reflection (between the active search and the actual procedure).

— But even so, the success rates for reversal are not high, they vary between 40% and 80%. This needs to be taken into consideration. It is considered a complex procedure, which is why, by law, there are 60 days of reflection after all the guidelines — emphasizes Tafner.

On the other hand, a point of concern raised by Monteiro is the decision to undergo tubal ligation without trying other contraceptive methods considered safe and easier to reverse.

— We have methods that are just as effective as tubal ligation that are available to women in the public system. IUDs and implants are also very effective — he notes.

Another issue is that the topic is still being discussed in the legal sphere. However, with the intention of making it possible for young people to make the decision even earlier. Deputies from the Brazilian Socialist Party (PSB) presented to the Supreme Federal Court (STF) a proposal for the minimum age to be 18 years old, considered the entry into legal adulthood in the country.

— From what I have observed, if the deputies' project to request the STF to lower the minimum age even further goes ahead, the rate of regret regarding tubal ligation, which already exists and is high, will only increase — the gynecologist at Febrasgo highlights.

Urologist Henrique Machado, who specializes in minimally invasive surgeries at the State University of Rio de Janeiro (UERJ), believes that, in the case of vasectomy, the increase observed in the data is due to the spread of reversal surgery among men and the change in perception regarding stigmas.

— There has been a change in men's understanding of the procedure. Now they know that it is relatively simple and that the surgery does not affect libido or erection, a common fear among men. Vasectomy reversal, although not 100% guaranteed, is especially appealing to younger men without children — the doctor ponders.

How the two methods work

The purpose of tubal ligation is to block the fallopian tubes, which connect the uterus to the ovary, to prevent sperm from reaching the eggs. This can be done by cutting, tying or inserting a ring in them, in a medical procedure that takes around 20 to 30 minutes in a laparoscopy (called a vaginal procedure, performed through small incisions with the aid of a device called a laparoscope), or up to 60 minutes in a laparotomy (called an abdominal procedure, with the opening of a small part of the abdomen).

Vasectomy refers to the removal of a fragment of the two tubes that carry sperm from the testicles to the penis. In this procedure, anesthesia is applied to the scrotum. It lasts about 30 minutes and the stitches usually heal within a week.

Up to three months after surgery, the use of other combined contraceptive methods is recommended, as there is still a risk of pregnancy.

For disrespectful behavior towards those seeking the service to perform the procedure or actions in the SUS against the established law, complaints can be made through Disque Saúde (136) or to the official ombudsman's office at the address: https://www.gov.br/saude/pt-br/canais-de-atendimento/ouvsus.

Also South Korean Women are right:

Why South Korean women aren't having babies - BBC News

South Korea has spent billions to reverse its low birth rate, but some say it isn't listening to young women’s needs.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[ZZZZ1111]

I think that Brazilian youth are absolutely right in their reproductive choises:

'Sempre soube que não queria ser mãe', diz jovem de 22 anos laqueada; esterilização voluntária entre mais novos cresce no Brasil | Saúde | O Globo

Vasectomia e a laqueadura apresentaram um aumento significativo desde a diminuição da idade mínima por lei, mostram dados do Ministério da Saúde

oglobo.globo.com

I always knew I didn't want to be a mother', says 22-year-old woman who underwent tubal ligation; voluntary sterilization among younger people is on the rise in Brazil

Vasectomy and tubal ligation have seen a significant increase since the minimum age was lowered by law, data from the Ministry of Health shows

ByRachel Pereira - Rio de Janeiro

07/17/2024 04h30 Updated2 months ago

Gabrielle Lotti, 22, chose to have her tubal ligation even though she doesn't have children Personal archive

The change in Brazilian law in September 2022, which allows voluntary sterilization from the age of 21, even without children, and no longer requires the consent of a spouse, has increased the demand for tubal ligation and vasectomy. Both procedures are part of what is called family planning, a right guaranteed to every citizen to define their reproductive future.

According to data from a survey conducted by the Ministry of Health, the number of women seeking by the contraceptive procedure jumped from 54,222 cases in the year the new law was enacted to 98,019 in 2023, an increase of 80.77%. The number of male seeking by the contraceptive procedure jumped from 67,689 to 95,209 in the same period, 40.63% more surgeries.

This has caught the attention of professionals in the field, as the choice for voluntary sterilization has been made mainly by young, childless people of both sexes.

Making access viable attracts young people

The decision to not have children through voluntary sterilization has several stages. When considering using the public system, the first step is to visit a basic health unit (UBS), where the patient is referred to a family planning clinic and then to the professionals responsible for monitoring the case.

Furthermore, it includes the signing of several documents and carrying out tests to confirm the absence of psychological disorders that put consciousness at risk or that determine that the person cannot receive anesthesia.

Previously, legislation 9.263/1996 stipulated that sterilization could only be performed from the age of 25, and that the express consent of the spouse was mandatory for both surgeries. However, sterilization was free to be performed at any age in the case of people with two living children.

For Yasmin Koury, 21, the change in the law came as a relief. She had considered waiting until she turned 25, but after reaching the new minimum age in August 2023, she was able to file the paperwork for a tubal ligation sooner than expected.

— I had the surgery on June 5, 2024, almost a year after I filed the request for tubal ligation. I feel relieved. Even though there is a chance of failure, the contraceptive chances are very high when you combine it with other methods, such as the IUD and condoms — says the archaeologist, a master's student at the Federal University of Pernambuco (UFPE).

Her post about the subject went viral on the social network X. In it, Yasmin shared a photo lying down right after the end of the procedure and quotes in the caption the well-known phrase by the writer Machado de Assis: “I didn't have children, I didn't pass on the legacy of our misery to any creature”.

— I always knew I didn't want to be a mother. As a child, I played with my friends and never wanted to be my doll's mother. I was a sister, a friend or a neighbor — says Yasmin, who underwent the procedure through her health insurance.

Gabrielle Lotti, 22, managed to undergo the procedure on April 10 this year, but had already sought out a health center in Palmeira das Missões, in the interior of Rio Grande do Sul, a year ago.

The new rules had a period of 180 days until they came into effect. Therefore, they only came into effect in the country on March 2, 2023.

— As soon as the protocol was sent, the health assistants at my local health center contacted me immediately and I started the documentation process. The surgery went extremely smoothly and the recovery has also been easy. I was afraid of the post-operative care, but in the end it was easier than I imagined — she says.

After successfully completing the procedure, the young woman began sharing her journey to sterilization through the Unified Health System (SUS) on the TikTok platform to help other women interested in doing the same.

— Since tubal ligation is still a taboo subject, there is not much information about it. This is probably because those who undergo the procedure are often the target of prejudice and insults. So I decided to share my experience to inform, clarify doubts and encourage those who have already made this decision but are still afraid and don't know where to start — she explains.

In the case of Matheus Duarte, 26, as soon as he entered adulthood, a vasectomy became a possibility, but he preferred to wait until he was older before starting to look for one.

This year, the administrative assistant made the decision not to have children and will continue with the process to have a vasectomy by the end of next year.

— I started to consider this choice because since I was a teenager I was always aware that I didn't want to have any children and today I still have this thought. I believe that the procedure would be the most efficient way to have a more structured plan for this — she ponders.

Reproductive autonomy

In this context, Jimena de Garay, professor of psychology at the State University of Rio de Janeiro (Uerj), notes that the change brought about by the new law guarantees a greater capacity for reproductive autonomy for the new generation.

— How women feel about motherhood, the fear of getting pregnant or creating a human being from scratch, are fears and concerns that have always existed. This applies to men as well. People now know that they can decide what to do with their own bodies. There is no longer that social obligation to be a mother to be a woman or to be a father to be a man as before. Furthermore, only now is medical technology being able to contemplate this decision not to procreate — highlights the researcher in the area of sexual and reproductive rights.

Another element is the growing concern about the future, according to the psychologist.

— The world seems to be “tighter”, more unequal, with more difficulties in planning a future and finding a job, from the perspective of young people. That is why many choose not to have children — analyzes Garay.

According to gynecologist Ilza Maria Urbano Monteiro, a member of the Brazilian Federation of Gynecology and Obstetrics Associations (Febrasgo) and who works for the Unified Health System (SUS), the queues for surgical intervention are getting longer in both public and private hospitals.

For the tubal ligation specialist, the high demand is due to a combination of factors. One of them is the scope of the power of choice, which, according to the new law, does not depend on the partner's approval. Another is the reduction of the minimum age to 21 years, increasing the scope of people.

— There is indeed an increase in demand among the younger population, not necessarily just in the 21 to 25 age group. I believe that the possibility of performing tubal ligation during a cesarean section or after childbirth has also facilitated access — he states.

From the same point of view, gynecologist and obstetrician Karina Tafner, from Hospital Santa Casa de São Paulo, notes that reversibility can bring greater safety to women who opt for ligation. However, just like men interested in having a vasectomy, they need to go through the required 60 days of reflection (between the active search and the actual procedure).

— But even so, the success rates for reversal are not high, they vary between 40% and 80%. This needs to be taken into consideration. It is considered a complex procedure, which is why, by law, there are 60 days of reflection after all the guidelines — emphasizes Tafner.

On the other hand, a point of concern raised by Monteiro is the decision to undergo tubal ligation without trying other contraceptive methods considered safe and easier to reverse.

— We have methods that are just as effective as tubal ligation that are available to women in the public system. IUDs and implants are also very effective — he notes.

Another issue is that the topic is still being discussed in the legal sphere. However, with the intention of making it possible for young people to make the decision even earlier. Deputies from the Brazilian Socialist Party (PSB) presented to the Supreme Federal Court (STF) a proposal for the minimum age to be 18 years old, considered the entry into legal adulthood in the country.

— From what I have observed, if the deputies' project to request the STF to lower the minimum age even further goes ahead, the rate of regret regarding tubal ligation, which already exists and is high, will only increase — the gynecologist at Febrasgo highlights.

Urologist Henrique Machado, who specializes in minimally invasive surgeries at the State University of Rio de Janeiro (UERJ), believes that, in the case of vasectomy, the increase observed in the data is due to the spread of reversal surgery among men and the change in perception regarding stigmas.

— There has been a change in men's understanding of the procedure. Now they know that it is relatively simple and that the surgery does not affect libido or erection, a common fear among men. Vasectomy reversal, although not 100% guaranteed, is especially appealing to younger men without children — the doctor ponders.

How the two methods work

The purpose of tubal ligation is to block the fallopian tubes, which connect the uterus to the ovary, to prevent sperm from reaching the eggs. This can be done by cutting, tying or inserting a ring in them, in a medical procedure that takes around 20 to 30 minutes in a laparoscopy (called a vaginal procedure, performed through small incisions with the aid of a device called a laparoscope), or up to 60 minutes in a laparotomy (called an abdominal procedure, with the opening of a small part of the abdomen).

Vasectomy refers to the removal of a fragment of the two tubes that carry sperm from the testicles to the penis. In this procedure, anesthesia is applied to the scrotum. It lasts about 30 minutes and the stitches usually heal within a week.

Up to three months after surgery, the use of other combined contraceptive methods is recommended, as there is still a risk of pregnancy.

For disrespectful behavior towards those seeking the service to perform the procedure or actions in the SUS against the established law, complaints can be made through Disque Saúde (136) or to the official ombudsman's office at the address: https://www.gov.br/saude/pt-br/canais-de-atendimento/ouvsus.

Also South Korean Women are right:

Why South Korean women aren't having babies - BBC News

South Korea has spent billions to reverse its low birth rate, but some say it isn't listening to young women’s needs.

www.bbc.co.uk

Sad to see

 

[ZZZZ1111]

Exactly. This is particularly striking within a given society. Even in an urban, prosperous setting, couples from traditionally living, pro-natal religious groups can have very high birth rates under conditions, like small living space, most non-idealistic/Religions couples wouldn't get more than two kids, if any at all.
The decisive factor is therefore always the mindset, personal values, personality and ideology/religion.

In my area, women coming from more traditional families have much higher rates of having any children and multiple children than those from non-traditional backgrounds which live in a city for generations.

That rural : urban dichotomy played a big role in these elections also, with conservative to right votes being by far more dominant on the countryside.

I also noticed that women's appearance and IQ will change the TFR. Ugly/average women have more children than beautiful women.Some women living in cities are disconnected from social production,and They think they are entitled to blackmail men because they are beautiful.