Immigration Foreign Criminality in Belgium

[Maciamo]

Here is the Wikipedia article about Crime in Belgium. It seems clear to me and to the writer(s) of this article that Belgium is overall a very safe country, with some very unsafe areas corresponding to poor immigrant districts in big cities like Brussels, Antwerp, Liege and Charleroi.

Usually, serious safety issues in Brussels are mostly limited to residential boroughs with a low income population, mainly composed of North African immigrants. These include notably Sint-Jans-Molenbeek, Schaarbeek, Anderlecht, and Vorst. Recently, violent muggings (in several cases resulting in death) and cases of women no longer being able to wear revealing clothes because of violence committed by radical Muslims against them, have also been reported in other parts of the city.
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Minors of non European Union citizenship, representing 4.4% of the population, are responsible for 24% of cases presented before youth judges. The share Belgian youths of foreign descent in cases brought to youth judge is 44%.

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Terrorism and Crime

Besides general safety issues in some boroughs, Brussels reportedly serves as a hub for terrorists, as reported by various sources such as interpol, and local newspapers as Het Nieuwsblad and Het Volk. In the same boroughs that pose safety problems (e.g. Sint-Jans-Molenbeek, Schaarbeek, ...) there is active recruitment by terrorist organizations such as al-Qaeda. As stated by Hind Fraihi of Het Nieuwsblad the recruitment is done in backyard mosques.
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Sexual assault

Sexual assault, including a number of gang rapes often carried out by youths of foreign descent, also happens.
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[Duo]

The situation in Brussels especially is disturbing, regarding especially street crimes such as mugging or sexual harrasment from usually north african youth towards western or wester appearing and english sounding individuals. If a group of these north african youth see a group of western girls out to party they will surely annoy them with calls and times even physical molestation. Something has to be done to curb this.

 

[Maciamo]

Unfortunately we have reached a point in the evolution of society where we can hardly take measures against the misdemeanors of poorer immigrants without that they claim it is racist or anti-Islamic. In other words, if some Moroccan youths molest or insult someone, they think it is their right because it is a free country - but don't ever ventured into a Moroccan neighbourhood because it is theirs, and they will lynch you ! That is a bit exagerated, but it is clearly going in this direction.

A few days ago, I was in the tramway standing with my wife in front of the door because there was no space to sit (this was an old tramway with double doors). Then a Moroccan man (probably over 50 years old), who was sitting nearby, got up and asked me in a very disagreeable tone to move myself so that he could get off, while there was plenty of space for him to pass. He was aggressive and clearly intended to provoke me. I told him I wasn't in the way, and he got out glaring at me as if he had wanted to kill me.

My wife now feels so uncomfortable in some tramway, bus or metro lines, as well as some central neighbourhoods of Brussels that she asked me to buy a car so that we wouldn't have to experience these glares and this negative atmospheres all the time. She even cried and said she wanted to move to the Belgian countryside (or smaller town) with virtually no (North) African immigrants, or go back to Japan. She complained that she hadn't been able to wear a skirt shorter than her knees since we moved to Brussels, because of the way Moroccan youths look at her. Yet we have lived in London, Barcelona and some other European cities (including the Belgian countryside) before, and never experienced anything like this. In comparison, smaller Belgian towns can be safer than Japan, because there are few or no Moroccan immigrants (although there are many Italian, East Asian or Eastern European ones).

Black African immigrants can be intimidating, but they usually don't make any trouble (except maybe throw rubbish in the street). Moroccan men (women are usually ok) completely lack any sense of manners. They throw garbage everywhere, smoke in non smoking areas, walk in flowerbeds in gardens, play ball games in crowded streets, make graffiti a bit everywhere to mark their territory, spit and throw chewing gums, push people in public transports, stare or glare at people, etc. It's not a minority of them, but almost all the men between 10 and 35 years old or so (sometimes older, like in my experience). The Brussels Public Transportation Company invested into new buses a few years ago, and that passes through Moroccan neighbourhoods are now already all dirty and damaged, while those in "European" neighbourhoods are still like new. I could give many more examples...

 

[Kinsao]

It's interesting what you say there. I wonder why in Belgium particularly? :? In the UK I think there isn't such a high number of Moroccan immigrants, but I can honestly say I wouldn't know if someone is specifically Moroccan just by looking at them. We get immigrants from all over the place (especially in my city which is very diverse), including North and Central Africa, the Middle East, the Indian sub-continent and Eastern Europe.

Personally, as a woman who does a lot of walking about alone at all hours, I find white British males to be the most intimidating. :souka: The Indian and Pakistani community is pretty well-established in this city (since about 50 years, most young people being second-generation and as "British" as the British... XD) and I don't think of them as "immigrants" or as really different at all... there is trouble and criminal behaviours and such but I'm just saying that in my experience I get no trouble from the guys, not as much as from white guys ~_~ ... and I thought that maybe other immigrants who haven't been here so long are kinda wary about getting into trouble with the police cos it could get them into more trouble about other things like papers and such, so they don't just make trouble randomly, only if it's over something like drugs and stuff.

 

[Maciamo]

I have lived in England as well, including London, and I have never felt unsafe anywhere, except maybe in Brixton (South London), but even Brixton was not nearly as bad as immigrant districts of Brussels. As I have been almost 6 months in India and loved it, I felt quite "at home" in Indian neighbourhoods of London (e.g. Appleton, Southall). I admit that I do not know well the English Midlands, reputedly the least safe cities in Britain (Manchester, Liverpool, Bradford...)

 

[Maciamo]

Last night in central Brussels (South Station area), a mob of Moroccan immigrants threw a molotov cocktail at a cafe, burnt down 3 cars, broke the windows of about 20 more cars, and threw stones at other shops and at the police who tried to control them. The cause for the riots was that a 25-year old Moroccan serial criminal died in prison that day. The point of the riots was to ask the Justice Minister to investigate on the suspicious circumstances of the youth's death. This is a typical reaction from this kind of lower class Moroccans. Rather than wait for an explanation from the authorities, they just make more trouble.

EDIT : here is the related article on Expatica.

 

[Maciamo]

Today, a Walloon court has condemned three men of Turkish origin for 3 separate cases of tiger-kidnapping on bank managers and their families. Tiger-kidnapping invloves going to people's home with guns, taking the whole family in hostage in exchange for money, and in this case to open the vault of the bank. One of the manager's wife was 6-month pregnant when the kidnapping took place, in addition to a toddler who was also taken by the kidnappers.

Source : RTBF : Le tiger-kidnapping aux assises


On a seprate note, the trial of Abdallah Ait Oud, a man of Moroccan origin with a paedophile past and charged with the rape and murder of a 7-year old and a 10-year old girl in Liege last June, continues. Additional evidence and witnesses now leave almost no doubt that he will be condemned.

 

[Minty]

Unfortunately we have reached a point in the evolution of society where we can hardly take measures against the misdemeanors of poorer immigrants without that they claim it is racist or anti-Islamic. In other words, if some Moroccan youths molest or insult someone, they think it is their right because it is a free country - but don't ever ventured into a Moroccan neighbourhood because it is theirs, and they will lynch you ! That is a bit exagerated, but it is clearly going in this direction.

Well, I think my husband feels the same as you about North African Arabian immigrants in France.

A few days ago, I was in the tramway standing with my wife in front of the door because there was no space to sit (this was an old tramway with double doors). Then a Moroccan man (probably over 50 years old), who was sitting nearby, got up and asked me in a very disagreeable tone to move myself so that he could get off, while there was plenty of space for him to pass. He was aggressive and clearly intended to provoke me. I told him I wasn't in the way, and he got out glaring at me as if he had wanted to kill me.
My wife now feels so uncomfortable in some tramway, bus or metro lines, as well as some central neighbourhoods of Brussels that she asked me to buy a car so that we wouldn't have to experience these glares and this negative atmospheres all the time. She even cried and said she wanted to move to the Belgian countryside (or smaller town) with virtually no (North) African immigrants, or go back to Japan. She complained that she hadn't been able to wear a skirt shorter than her knees since we moved to Brussels, because of the way Moroccan youths look at her. Yet we have lived in London, Barcelona and some other European cities (including the Belgian countryside) before, and never experienced anything like this. In comparison, smaller Belgian towns can be safer than Japan, because there are few or no Moroccan immigrants (although there are many Italian, East Asian or Eastern European ones).

Your wife is not the only one undergoes experiences like this. Many North African men like to wink at me. They even do that when my husband is just there next to me! At least with white men, or Asian men only do that when they don't see a guy with me.

Black African immigrants can be intimidating, but they usually don't make any trouble (except maybe throw rubbish in the street). Moroccan men (women are usually ok) completely lack any sense of manners. They throw garbage everywhere, smoke in non smoking areas, walk in flowerbeds in gardens, play ball games in crowded streets, make graffiti a bit everywhere to mark their territory, spit and throw chewing gums, push people in public transports, stare or glare at people, etc. It's not a minority of them, but almost all the men between 10 and 35 years old or so (sometimes older, like in my experience). The Brussels Public Transportation Company invested into new buses a few years ago, and that passes through Moroccan neighbourhoods are now already all dirty and damaged, while those in "European" neighbourhoods are still like new. I could give many more examples...

Blacks here don't bother me, but they do kind of look at you, they tend to hang around as a group or with North African Arabs here.

I have been serviced by blacks in supermarkets or restaurants before they are ok.

I agree that the North African Arabian women are ok, if I drop something in the hypermarket, they pick them up for me. However I don't really talk to them, but if people help me in the hypermarket I do say "Merci". However most of the time it is the white women who help me get things I couldn?ft reach. Yes I am petite, only 160cm tall. My husband thinks I am a hobbit as he is 186cm tall.:relief:

 

[cursore]

(although there are many Italian, East Asian or Eastern European ones).

I'll be really careful if I was you... your wife might start like Pasta and Pizza just a bit too much...

 

[Minty]

It's interesting what you say there. I wonder why in Belgium particularly? :? In the UK I think there isn't such a high number of Moroccan immigrants, but I can honestly say I wouldn't know if someone is specifically Moroccan just by looking at them. We get immigrants from all over the place (especially in my city which is very diverse), including North and Central Africa, the Middle East, the Indian sub-continent and Eastern Europe.
Personally, as a woman who does a lot of walking about alone at all hours, I find white British males to be the most intimidating. :souka: The Indian and Pakistani community is pretty well-established in this city (since about 50 years, most young people being second-generation and as "British" as the British... XD) and I don't think of them as "immigrants" or as really different at all... there is trouble and criminal behaviours and such but I'm just saying that in my experience I get no trouble from the guys, not as much as from white guys ~_~ ... and I thought that maybe other immigrants who haven't been here so long are kinda wary about getting into trouble with the police cos it could get them into more trouble about other things like papers and such, so they don't just make trouble randomly, only if it's over something like drugs and stuff.

Maybe that is because you are white, so therefore you are bothered by white guys more. *Minty shrugs* I on the other hand get a lot more harassment from other Asians and Middle eastern men than Chinese men, which is strange I think.:?

I don?ft think this is something only happened in Belgium, I was in London in December of 2002, I went to Häagen-Dazs restaurant with my sister. I think it is somewhere near Piccadilly Circus and China town in London.

They were so popular that we had to line up to get a seat in their cafe. It was raining that night, they even gave out umbrellas for their customers lining outside of their door. So finally it was our turn, and we went in.

As the cafe was so full they gave you the next table available and the waitress showed you to your table. When we began to go inside of the cafe, I could see the spot there ready for us, but also at the same time I saw the table next to us, there sat a group of Middle Eastern or Pakistani looking men looking my way acting like satyrs.

Once we sat down they started to cat call me, I tried to ignore them at first, but they continued and their noises were getting louder, my sister said to me "I think they are doing that at you", I replied "I know, I am trying to ignore them!!!" We tried but they actually continued, and were winking and asking me whether I liked Ice cream? It was a metaphor they meant their private parts!

I was so mad I stood up, starred at them, and I told them I wasn?ft interested, so stopped it right now!!! Around 30 seconds of silence, they stood up and they left. True story!

And that night I had a turtle neck on with a skirt that covered my knees, I didn?ft even dress very pretty.

 

[Maciamo]

Moroccan criminals also distinguish themselves in jail by threatening guardians. RTL-TVI reported today that Farid Bamouhammad, arrested and jailed for 15 years for a violent hostage taking in central Brussels in August 2005, as well as another previous hostage taking and numerous other criminal acts. Bamouhammad has only be incarcerated for 10 days but has already assaulted and threatened many jail guardians.

Today the media reported that 3 other Moroccans were trialed for several violent robberies around Brussels, including one in which they tortured an 87 year-old woman for several hours so that she would reveal where she hid her money. The accused are young : Riad Lahmidi (21 years old), Noureddine Amira (21 ears old) and Billal Oulad Haj (20 ears old). (see Le Soir artilce)

UPDATE : the court of Brussels found the 3 above accused guilty of violent robbery and torture but retained their young age as mitigating circumstances. They have been sentenced to 15 years of emprisonment, instead of the 20 to 30 years expected.

 

[Duo]

A chinese friend that lived here in Brussels was always reluctant to take the metro because she would be afraid/anxious at the maroccan/north african presence that seemed intimidating to her. It's funny because I look the usual typical white guy and when I'm approached sometimes by north african/maroccans for what ever reason as soon as they find out I'm Albanian they seem to loose any interest they had initially. I suspect many times they are trying to purposely harass Belgian/Western individuals just because they are what they are.

 

[Maciamo]

According to this article, a bit over 10% of all people in Belgian prisons are Moroccan (excluding naturalised Moroccans, who are considered as Belgians). Yet, Moroccans only represent 0.8% of Belgium's population.