Genetic affinities between an ancient Greek colony and its metropolis: the case of 2 Amvrakia in western Greece

This clearly proves that while there was general continuity from the archaiv to the Hellenistic period, with only minor Balkan admixture coming in, primarily, in the late Hellenistic and especially Roman period there was a big influx of Anatolian-Levantine people into Greece.
Since they have sampled all periods, this is the main takeaway.
In the Hellenistic period, either from Macedonians, Thracians, Dacians or other Balkan people, we see the first appeaerance of E-V13 (CTS9320) in the Southern Peleponnes. CTS9320 is the same general branch (subclades are different) which was found in the Himera mercenaries with E-V13, which in turn had a North Balkan ancestral profile - this CTS9320 from Tenea seems to be largely local with minor Balkan admixture going by the paper. Hopefully FTDNA/YFull can get even deeper assignments for the male samples and getting the coordinates for these samples to play around with their values would be great too.
 
Riverman said:
This clearly proves that while there was general continuity from the archaiv to the Hellenistic period, with only minor Balkan admixture coming in, primarily, in the late Hellenistic and especially Roman period there was a big influx of Anatolian-Levantine people into Greece.
Since they have sampled all periods, this is the main takeaway.
In the Hellenistic period, either from Macedonians, Thracians, Dacians or other Balkan people, we see the first appeaerance of E-V13 (CTS9320) in the Southern Peleponnes. CTS9320 is the same general branch (subclades are different) which was found in the Himera mercenaries with E-V13, which in turn had a North Balkan ancestral profile - this CTS9320 from Tenea seems to be largely local with minor Balkan admixture going by the paper. Hopefully FTDNA/YFull can get even deeper assignments for the male samples and getting the coordinates for these samples to play around with their values would be great too.
Click to expand...

what an amazing haplogroup e-m78 Hellenistic Greece(y)
congratulations riverman;)
1751814003879.png
 
A study on Hellenistic/Roman era Greece is something that has been long awaited. It seems clear that up until the Hellenistic era both Tenea and Amvrakia cluster strongly with the LBA greeks with a few anatolian outliers. By the Roman era this changes in Tenea where the population begins to look rather identical to the BA/IA/Roman era western Anatolian genetic profile.

I see no indication whatsoever of any levantine pull of ancestry or levantine outliers for the Greek samples. This highlights more than anything the continuation of the bronze age pattern of Greece continueing to mix further with the anatolian peninsula, which was already hellenized at this point. I think at this point it also evidences further that both the Central Italian Roman imperial and modern southern Italian genetic structure derive their ancestry nearly totalistically from what was ultimately this cline of ancient greek ancestry rather than their original IA latin structure as well. The results of this study suggest there were no shifts of exotic input into the greek world as some have proposed but simply more movement eastwards on the preexisting Greco-anatolian cline.
 
Last edited:
Vitruvius said:
A study on Hellenistic/Roman era Greece is something that has been long awaited. It seems clear that up until the Hellenistic era both Tenea and Amvrakia cluster strongly with the LBA greeks with a few anatolian outliers. By the Roman era this changes in Tenea where the population begins to look rather identical to the BA/IA/Roman era western Anatolian genetic profile.

I see no indication whatsoever of any levantine pull of ancestry or levantine outliers for the Greek samples. This highlights more than anything the continuation of the bronze age pattern of Greece continueing to mix further with the anatolian peninsula, which was already hellenized at this point. I think at this point it also evidences further that both the Central Italian Roman imperial and modern southern Italian genetic structure derive their ancestry nearly totalistically from what was ultimately this cline of ancient greek ancestry rather than their original IA latin structure as well. The results of this study suggest there were no shifts of exotic input into the greek world as some have proposed but simply more movement eastwards on the preexisting Greco-anatolian cline.
Click to expand...
Although I think it would be better to wait for the iron age study from Athens,the amount of samples from the study can fill the gap of Iron Age Greece.We are waiting for the G25 coordinates,the sample's quality is high,iirc.
 
Another nice showing of male haplogroup T-S27463. There were some found in Himera and Iron Age/Archaic Kastrouli. There was a brother branch found in Roman Marathon, CTS3767 (both are under L131 and CTS933). Can't remember any T samples in Myceneans. There are much older samples from Varna, Bulgaria and Turkey. Wondering if T migrated to Greece in the Iron Age from somewhere nearby.
 
Aboriginal G2 in the Bronze Age and Indo-European J2 in the Classical period.
 
Notably, the absence of shared IBD segments is observed a) between LBA Ammotopos and any other sample and b) between Roman Tenea and any other non-Roman sample from either Tenea, or Amvrakia.
Click to expand...

So who are these 4 Roman era individuals representative of? Natives or imports from Italy/Anatolia? Judging by the above statement they aren't local.
 
Last edited:
I expect that E-M78 from Amvrakia to be V13+. The Tenea one looks to be positive to E-V13 Z5017 CTS9320.

These two samples show up during Hellenistic times, wonder if V13 will show in archaic/classical times as well.
 
There is also a R-PF7562, which is likely a PF7563. Quite natural for the region. I'd like to see the profile of the E-V13 sample.
 
I guess we are gonna get a clear picture of the slavic and balkan genetic influence on modern greeks now with this new samples as source population for the ancient greek genome.
 
Bill7 said:
I guess we are gonna get a clear picture of the slavic and balkan genetic influence on modern greeks now with this new samples as source population for the ancient greek genome.
Click to expand...
I think that we already have the roman/byzantine samples from Western Anatolia,which are similar to the Roman Tenea samples.Although i think that we exaggerate the arvanite+vlach influence.I ran some models in AdGap qpAdm,and my models were far better with a Roman Era Greek+Medieval Slav,rather than Roman Greek+Polish+Albania Medieval.I suggest that the slavic migrations in greece were not Polish-like,but rather a mix of Ingria+Local Balkans.
 
Bill7 said:
I guess we are gonna get a clear picture of the slavic and balkan genetic influence on modern greeks now with this new samples as source population for the ancient greek genome.
Click to expand...
We won't get a clear picture until we have an IA-Roman era genetic timelapse of northern Greeks such as Macedonians and Epirotes.
 
Thucydides enjoyer said:
I think that we already have the roman/byzantine samples from Western Anatolia,which are similar to the Roman Tenea samples.Although i think that we exaggerate the arvanite+vlach influence.I ran some models in AdGap qpAdm,and my models were far better with a Roman Era Greek+Medieval Slav,rather than Roman Greek+Polish+Albania Medieval.I suggest that the slavic migrations in greece were not Polish-like,but rather a mix of Ingria+Local Balkans.
Click to expand...

Albanian medieval samples are not Albanian. The sample from northern Albania(I14622) is not an Albanian profile, it is Byzantine(medieval Greek) + Slav + local Kruja Komani(Latini speaking Illyrians).
The sample from southern Albania Shtike I13839 is a good proxy for early Albanian, though I think it is likely an early Vlach. Best example and the only true/provable early Albanian profiles are the following: I14686, I14687, I15707, they date from 1400s and 1500s.
 
PaleoRevenge said:
Albanian medieval samples are not Albanian. The sample from northern Albania(I14622) is not an Albanian profile, it is Byzantine(medieval Greek) + Slav + local Kruja Komani(Latini speaking Illyrians).
The sample from southern Albania Shtike I13839 is a good proxy for early Albanian, though I think it is likely an early Vlach. Best example and the only true/provable early Albanian profiles are the following: I14686, I14687, I15707, they date from 1400s and 1500s.
Click to expand...
I think these are the Bardhoc samples,right?I am going to use them as a proxy then.I thought something was wrong,since i could not model them accurately with an Illyrian basis.
 
Thucydides enjoyer said:
I think these are the Bardhoc samples,right?I am going to use them as a proxy then.I thought something was wrong,since i could not model them accurately with an Illyrian basis.
Click to expand...

Yes the Bardhoc samples, however I omitted the female who has heavy Slavic admixture, she is likely a Gorani that was married and died in the ethnic Albanian side. The samples I listed have low Slavic admixture, which best represents how Albanians looked like when they moved south into Greece.
 
PaleoRevenge said:
Yes the Bardhoc samples, however I omitted the female who has heavy Slavic admixture, she is likely a Gorani that was married and died in the ethnic Albanian side. The samples I listed have low Slavic admixture, which best represents how Albanians looked like when they moved south into Greece.
Click to expand...
Have you run any models on these bardhoc samples?
 
Thucydides enjoyer said:
Although I think it would be better to wait for the iron age study from Athens,the amount of samples from the study can fill the gap of Iron Age Greece.We are waiting for the G25 coordinates,the sample's quality is high,iirc.
Click to expand...
Many people on X can demonstrate there's a big inflation of "Natufian" in G25. Frankly, you should just wait till the samples are in v63.0 of AADR. G25 is built on fixed synthetic components, while formal tools like qpAdm actually examine polymorphic SNPs to make determinations on how to accurately model populations. Moreover, there aren't any metrics in G25 to determine if a model is actually statistically robust.

G25 is basically astrology, while formal tools found in the Admixtools2 suite are the legitimate means of analyzing aDNA.

In private DM, I've spoken to top researchers and they are completely aloof to what g25 is. This demonstrates how inconsequential it is to the experts in the field.
 
Last edited:
Also emphasis on quality is actually not as important as one may think. Recent papers show Admixtools2 can accurately model and plot samples with up to 90% missingness of SNP coverage. I have seen it in real-time. My personal sample with only 20% coverage plots almost exactly on the same place as my sample on 95% coverage in smartpca. Perhaps G25 and similar tools are more sensitive, but are within and of themselves unqualified and erroneous.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top