Genetic discontinuity in a Medieval Sicilian community (Abstract)

Anfänger

Regular member
Messages
478
Reaction score
398
Points
63
Ethnic group
Iranian
Y-DNA haplogroup
R1b-Z2103
mtDNA haplogroup
U7a4
F5jBakzXoAA7Oif.jpeg
 
The Islamic population was enslaved and sold into the North African slave markets by the reign of Frederick II. It's no surprise, but whatever Arabic and North African populations would've been living in Sicily prior to that point would've been deported in this fashion. We all know that modern Sicilians show direct continuity with the much earlier Imperial Roman populations anyways, so this should come as expected.
 
Last edited:
The Islamic population was enslaved and sold into the North African slave markets by the reign Frederick II. It's no surprise, but whatever Arabic and North African populations would've been living in Sicily prior to that point would've been deported in this fashion. We all know that modern Sicilians show direct continuity with the much earlier Imperial Roman populations anyways, so this is no surprise.
Indeed, many were actually brought to Lucera in Apulia. There was s city of about 70,000. But eventually the city was sacked and essentially ethnically cleansed. Many were sold into slavery, fled across the Adriatic sea, or were put to death.
 
Indeed, many were actually brought to Lucera in Apulia. There was s city of about 70,000. But eventually the city was sacked and essentially ethnically cleansed. Many were sold into slavery, fled across the Adriatic sea, or were put to death.
Yes, and from my recollection they were sacked specifically for the reason that a stronghold of Moorish occupation & Islam was considered intolerable.
 
FTDNA has added the Sicilian samples into their tree, interesting is that this is the location of not one, but two of the three E-V13 samples:

 
FTDNA has added the Sicilian samples into their tree, interesting is that this is the location of not one, but two of the three E-V13 samples:


That's a great catch. 3 samples from Segesta are in one branch and to me this branch looks basicaly steppe and Greek related. I wouldn't wonder if we find it in the Bosporan kingdom/Black Sea Scythians too.

There are additional testers from Sicily and Greece, which kind of screams "Greek" at us IMHO. Even old Greek, with a split between Lybia and Greece 1.200 BC (Sea Peoples era).

Also worth to mention that two Brazilians have a TMRCA in the Roman era! That's rare and points to a wider spread in Portugal potentially. Looking at FTDNA, one branch might be actual Ladino/Sephardic Jewish:
 
Last edited:
Hi everyone! The person from Uzbekistan in the tree is my brother, our dad was Tadjik from the city of Bukhara. Bukhara was conquered by the army of Alexander the Great and I think that our paternal ancestor came with him to Central Asia. Also the estimated location of our haplogroup is Greece. The three babies from Segesta have exactly the same subclade as us. Also the age of estimated common ancestor is 420BCE, this is Classical/Hellenistic time. The YTREE from YFull gives us another subclade, but the age didn't change.
 

Attachments

  • Capture d'écran 2024-08-08 181114.png
    Capture d'écran 2024-08-08 181114.png
    81 KB · Views: 86
  • image_2024-08-18_213945913.png
    image_2024-08-18_213945913.png
    1.3 MB · Views: 95
Code:
Scaled

Segesta:SGBN1,0.067156,0.139128,-0.018102,-0.041667,0.015387,-0.025658,-0.013161,-0.009923,0.007363,0.018953,-0.002273,0.004796,-0.004014,0.005918,-0.008415,0.001193,0.000782,0.001774,0.003771,-0.002251,-0.006863,-0.005688,-0.002835,-0.008676,-0.001197
Segesta:SGBN2,-0.583913,0.063978,0.012822,0.009367,-0.000615,0.008925,-0.033607,0.035537,0.005931,-0.013485,0.004222,0.004796,-0.00773,-0.000138,0.005972,-0.009546,0.004955,-0.006588,0.006411,-0.006628,-0.003743,0.000247,-0.002095,0.00253,0.003832
Segesta:SGBN4,0.055773,0.137096,-0.007165,-0.052003,0.019388,-0.018128,-0.007755,0.001615,0.024747,0.016219,0.002923,-0.008393,0.010406,-0.006606,0.006922,0.003182,0.00665,-0.015076,-0.020866,0.008254,-0.00287,-0.004081,0.002342,0.004699,0.002395
Segesta:SGBN5,0.067156,0.137096,-0.009805,-0.042636,0.017849,-0.022869,-0.016686,-0.010846,0.016566,0.021139,0.008119,0.012739,0.000595,-0.003578,-0.011265,0.003315,0.005346,-0.005701,-0.006411,0.000625,-0.012603,0.000866,0.00456,0.002289,-0.005748
Segesta:SGBN6,0.062603,0.142174,-0.017725,-0.047158,0.00954,-0.008088,-0.002585,0.003,0.009613,0.015672,0.002273,-0.00015,-0.001933,-0.000688,-0.002714,-0.008353,-0.004955,0.002407,0.009804,-0.007128,-0.006239,-0.00643,0.001849,-0.005543,0.001676
Segesta:SGBN7,0.027318,0.129988,-0.003771,-0.042959,0.007694,-0.020638,-0.00893,0.007154,0.018816,0.016948,0.002436,0.003147,0.000743,-0.009358,0.003257,0.010342,0.0236,-0.003674,-0.015712,0.007379,-0.010107,-0.007543,0.017255,-0.007832,0.011975
Segesta:SGBN10,0.092197,0.133034,0.000377,-0.018411,0.038469,-0.009203,-0.013396,0,0.001023,0.021322,-0.001624,0.008093,-0.001933,-0.001376,-0.004886,0.003315,0.006128,0.005574,-0.007668,0.006753,-0.008111,-0.013973,-0.000246,0.009278,-0.007664
Segesta:SGBN12,0.08992,0.139128,0.004525,-0.033269,0.008001,-0.030678,0.001645,-0.008538,0.009204,0.015855,0.004709,-0.006294,-0.013528,-0.006744,0.010043,0.013126,0.018906,0.006334,0.008673,-0.002626,-0.007362,0.004699,-0.000616,0.002892,-0.001676
Segesta:SGBN17,0.092197,0.137096,-0.008674,-0.034561,0.011694,-0.008088,-0.001175,0,0.000818,0.008383,0.000974,3e-04,-0.005798,0.001376,-0.013979,0.015513,0.009909,-0.00228,-0.003645,-0.003627,-0.006613,0.000618,0.002218,-0.000361,0.001197
Segesta:SGBN19,0.118376,0.151314,0.012068,-0.003876,0.044624,-0.001952,-0.00705,0.003692,0.003681,0.029887,-0.009094,0.005245,-0.01115,-0.010872,-0.007872,0.028109,0.019427,0.013049,0.007668,-0.008129,-0.009234,-0.002226,-0.005176,0.013134,-0.00934
Segesta:SGBN20,0.112685,0.133034,0.023004,-0.00646,0.037238,0.000837,0.004935,-0.007154,0.008385,0.021139,-0.002111,0.003147,-0.014271,-0.013625,0.001629,0.014717,0.017863,-0.005701,0.003268,0.005253,-0.007237,0.000618,-0.003944,0.005061,-0.009221
Segesta:SGBN22,0.114961,0.14319,0.010182,-0.02907,0.017542,-0.007251,0.00094,-0.003,0.009204,0.01713,0.004222,0.005245,-0.004757,-0.005092,-0.004614,-0.000663,-0.004172,0.002534,0.000628,-0.002126,-0.006738,0.000371,0.002465,0.004579,0.00012
Segesta:SGBN23,0.113823,0.152329,0.020365,-0.015181,0.030159,0.012829,0.027966,0.007384,0.005727,0.013485,-0.001624,0.005095,-0.027056,-0.001651,0.016829,-0.005967,-0.006128,-0.001267,0.005531,-0.001,0.022211,0.000618,-0.003204,-0.007832,0.005508
Segesta:SGBN24,0.113823,0.148267,0.011691,-0.027455,0.025235,-0.008925,0.00047,0.003231,0.00225,0.023873,0.001624,0.001798,-0.010555,-0.006193,0.001493,0.005834,0.005215,-0.002914,0.004651,-0.003627,0.003619,0.006801,-0.012571,-0.000964,-0.000479

It looks like the 3 E-V13 sample have medieval Albanian ancestry.
 
The Thopia dynasty of Medieval Albania presumably had Norman ancestry through their female line.
 
The crazy part, the J2b-L283 from the Muslim cemetery also has mdv Albanian ancestry.
 
Code:
Scaled

Segesta:SGBN1,0.067156,0.139128,-0.018102,-0.041667,0.015387,-0.025658,-0.013161,-0.009923,0.007363,0.018953,-0.002273,0.004796,-0.004014,0.005918,-0.008415,0.001193,0.000782,0.001774,0.003771,-0.002251,-0.006863,-0.005688,-0.002835,-0.008676,-0.001197
Segesta:SGBN2,-0.583913,0.063978,0.012822,0.009367,-0.000615,0.008925,-0.033607,0.035537,0.005931,-0.013485,0.004222,0.004796,-0.00773,-0.000138,0.005972,-0.009546,0.004955,-0.006588,0.006411,-0.006628,-0.003743,0.000247,-0.002095,0.00253,0.003832
Segesta:SGBN4,0.055773,0.137096,-0.007165,-0.052003,0.019388,-0.018128,-0.007755,0.001615,0.024747,0.016219,0.002923,-0.008393,0.010406,-0.006606,0.006922,0.003182,0.00665,-0.015076,-0.020866,0.008254,-0.00287,-0.004081,0.002342,0.004699,0.002395
Segesta:SGBN5,0.067156,0.137096,-0.009805,-0.042636,0.017849,-0.022869,-0.016686,-0.010846,0.016566,0.021139,0.008119,0.012739,0.000595,-0.003578,-0.011265,0.003315,0.005346,-0.005701,-0.006411,0.000625,-0.012603,0.000866,0.00456,0.002289,-0.005748
Segesta:SGBN6,0.062603,0.142174,-0.017725,-0.047158,0.00954,-0.008088,-0.002585,0.003,0.009613,0.015672,0.002273,-0.00015,-0.001933,-0.000688,-0.002714,-0.008353,-0.004955,0.002407,0.009804,-0.007128,-0.006239,-0.00643,0.001849,-0.005543,0.001676
Segesta:SGBN7,0.027318,0.129988,-0.003771,-0.042959,0.007694,-0.020638,-0.00893,0.007154,0.018816,0.016948,0.002436,0.003147,0.000743,-0.009358,0.003257,0.010342,0.0236,-0.003674,-0.015712,0.007379,-0.010107,-0.007543,0.017255,-0.007832,0.011975
Segesta:SGBN10,0.092197,0.133034,0.000377,-0.018411,0.038469,-0.009203,-0.013396,0,0.001023,0.021322,-0.001624,0.008093,-0.001933,-0.001376,-0.004886,0.003315,0.006128,0.005574,-0.007668,0.006753,-0.008111,-0.013973,-0.000246,0.009278,-0.007664
Segesta:SGBN12,0.08992,0.139128,0.004525,-0.033269,0.008001,-0.030678,0.001645,-0.008538,0.009204,0.015855,0.004709,-0.006294,-0.013528,-0.006744,0.010043,0.013126,0.018906,0.006334,0.008673,-0.002626,-0.007362,0.004699,-0.000616,0.002892,-0.001676
Segesta:SGBN17,0.092197,0.137096,-0.008674,-0.034561,0.011694,-0.008088,-0.001175,0,0.000818,0.008383,0.000974,3e-04,-0.005798,0.001376,-0.013979,0.015513,0.009909,-0.00228,-0.003645,-0.003627,-0.006613,0.000618,0.002218,-0.000361,0.001197
Segesta:SGBN19,0.118376,0.151314,0.012068,-0.003876,0.044624,-0.001952,-0.00705,0.003692,0.003681,0.029887,-0.009094,0.005245,-0.01115,-0.010872,-0.007872,0.028109,0.019427,0.013049,0.007668,-0.008129,-0.009234,-0.002226,-0.005176,0.013134,-0.00934
Segesta:SGBN20,0.112685,0.133034,0.023004,-0.00646,0.037238,0.000837,0.004935,-0.007154,0.008385,0.021139,-0.002111,0.003147,-0.014271,-0.013625,0.001629,0.014717,0.017863,-0.005701,0.003268,0.005253,-0.007237,0.000618,-0.003944,0.005061,-0.009221
Segesta:SGBN22,0.114961,0.14319,0.010182,-0.02907,0.017542,-0.007251,0.00094,-0.003,0.009204,0.01713,0.004222,0.005245,-0.004757,-0.005092,-0.004614,-0.000663,-0.004172,0.002534,0.000628,-0.002126,-0.006738,0.000371,0.002465,0.004579,0.00012
Segesta:SGBN23,0.113823,0.152329,0.020365,-0.015181,0.030159,0.012829,0.027966,0.007384,0.005727,0.013485,-0.001624,0.005095,-0.027056,-0.001651,0.016829,-0.005967,-0.006128,-0.001267,0.005531,-0.001,0.022211,0.000618,-0.003204,-0.007832,0.005508
Segesta:SGBN24,0.113823,0.148267,0.011691,-0.027455,0.025235,-0.008925,0.00047,0.003231,0.00225,0.023873,0.001624,0.001798,-0.010555,-0.006193,0.001493,0.005834,0.005215,-0.002914,0.004651,-0.003627,0.003619,0.006801,-0.012571,-0.000964,-0.000479

It looks like the 3 E-V13 sample have medieval Albanian ancestry.

thanks for sharing there g25 values (y)
 
Code:
Scaled

Segesta:SGBN1,0.067156,0.139128,-0.018102,-0.041667,0.015387,-0.025658,-0.013161,-0.009923,0.007363,0.018953,-0.002273,0.004796,-0.004014,0.005918,-0.008415,0.001193,0.000782,0.001774,0.003771,-0.002251,-0.006863,-0.005688,-0.002835,-0.008676,-0.001197
Segesta:SGBN2,-0.583913,0.063978,0.012822,0.009367,-0.000615,0.008925,-0.033607,0.035537,0.005931,-0.013485,0.004222,0.004796,-0.00773,-0.000138,0.005972,-0.009546,0.004955,-0.006588,0.006411,-0.006628,-0.003743,0.000247,-0.002095,0.00253,0.003832
Segesta:SGBN4,0.055773,0.137096,-0.007165,-0.052003,0.019388,-0.018128,-0.007755,0.001615,0.024747,0.016219,0.002923,-0.008393,0.010406,-0.006606,0.006922,0.003182,0.00665,-0.015076,-0.020866,0.008254,-0.00287,-0.004081,0.002342,0.004699,0.002395
Segesta:SGBN5,0.067156,0.137096,-0.009805,-0.042636,0.017849,-0.022869,-0.016686,-0.010846,0.016566,0.021139,0.008119,0.012739,0.000595,-0.003578,-0.011265,0.003315,0.005346,-0.005701,-0.006411,0.000625,-0.012603,0.000866,0.00456,0.002289,-0.005748
Segesta:SGBN6,0.062603,0.142174,-0.017725,-0.047158,0.00954,-0.008088,-0.002585,0.003,0.009613,0.015672,0.002273,-0.00015,-0.001933,-0.000688,-0.002714,-0.008353,-0.004955,0.002407,0.009804,-0.007128,-0.006239,-0.00643,0.001849,-0.005543,0.001676
Segesta:SGBN7,0.027318,0.129988,-0.003771,-0.042959,0.007694,-0.020638,-0.00893,0.007154,0.018816,0.016948,0.002436,0.003147,0.000743,-0.009358,0.003257,0.010342,0.0236,-0.003674,-0.015712,0.007379,-0.010107,-0.007543,0.017255,-0.007832,0.011975
Segesta:SGBN10,0.092197,0.133034,0.000377,-0.018411,0.038469,-0.009203,-0.013396,0,0.001023,0.021322,-0.001624,0.008093,-0.001933,-0.001376,-0.004886,0.003315,0.006128,0.005574,-0.007668,0.006753,-0.008111,-0.013973,-0.000246,0.009278,-0.007664
Segesta:SGBN12,0.08992,0.139128,0.004525,-0.033269,0.008001,-0.030678,0.001645,-0.008538,0.009204,0.015855,0.004709,-0.006294,-0.013528,-0.006744,0.010043,0.013126,0.018906,0.006334,0.008673,-0.002626,-0.007362,0.004699,-0.000616,0.002892,-0.001676
Segesta:SGBN17,0.092197,0.137096,-0.008674,-0.034561,0.011694,-0.008088,-0.001175,0,0.000818,0.008383,0.000974,3e-04,-0.005798,0.001376,-0.013979,0.015513,0.009909,-0.00228,-0.003645,-0.003627,-0.006613,0.000618,0.002218,-0.000361,0.001197
Segesta:SGBN19,0.118376,0.151314,0.012068,-0.003876,0.044624,-0.001952,-0.00705,0.003692,0.003681,0.029887,-0.009094,0.005245,-0.01115,-0.010872,-0.007872,0.028109,0.019427,0.013049,0.007668,-0.008129,-0.009234,-0.002226,-0.005176,0.013134,-0.00934
Segesta:SGBN20,0.112685,0.133034,0.023004,-0.00646,0.037238,0.000837,0.004935,-0.007154,0.008385,0.021139,-0.002111,0.003147,-0.014271,-0.013625,0.001629,0.014717,0.017863,-0.005701,0.003268,0.005253,-0.007237,0.000618,-0.003944,0.005061,-0.009221
Segesta:SGBN22,0.114961,0.14319,0.010182,-0.02907,0.017542,-0.007251,0.00094,-0.003,0.009204,0.01713,0.004222,0.005245,-0.004757,-0.005092,-0.004614,-0.000663,-0.004172,0.002534,0.000628,-0.002126,-0.006738,0.000371,0.002465,0.004579,0.00012
Segesta:SGBN23,0.113823,0.152329,0.020365,-0.015181,0.030159,0.012829,0.027966,0.007384,0.005727,0.013485,-0.001624,0.005095,-0.027056,-0.001651,0.016829,-0.005967,-0.006128,-0.001267,0.005531,-0.001,0.022211,0.000618,-0.003204,-0.007832,0.005508
Segesta:SGBN24,0.113823,0.148267,0.011691,-0.027455,0.025235,-0.008925,0.00047,0.003231,0.00225,0.023873,0.001624,0.001798,-0.010555,-0.006193,0.001493,0.005834,0.005215,-0.002914,0.004651,-0.003627,0.003619,0.006801,-0.012571,-0.000964,-0.000479

It looks like the 3 E-V13 sample have medieval Albanian ancestry.
Thank you so much!
 
Back
Top