Genetic make-up of France

In my opinion to be pretty Italian are Languedoc, Provence, Lyon and Corse.

Corsican is an Italian language, not French. Corsican language derives from Old Tuscan, with strong influences from Ligurian and southern dialects.

While Languedoc and Provence are stricly connected with Gallo-Italic dialects spoken in Western-Northern Italy. Especially, Piedmontese and, probably, Ligurian, Lombard, Emilian.

I don't think Piedmontese are 100% italian. Many piedmontese people share same heritage of Eastern-Southern French. In some western Piedmontese valleys and Aosta Valley French influence is stronger, even today. Valdôtain spoken in Aosta Valley is a form of Franco-Provençal.

In Italy you can find deep French influences in South Italy too. In some communities in Apulia (Franco-Provençal), in Guardia Piemontese in Calabria (Occitan), in Basilicata (Gallo-Italic of Basilicata), in Sicily (Gallo-Italic of Sicily).
 
Nations less ethnically diverse than the French (based on mtDNA, Y chromosome and other markers):

Iceland, Latvia, Lithuania, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Spain.

I'm sure many others, those are the ones I'm currently reviewing recent research on. There are websites with piecharts, etc. I don't have them handy on this computer.

The "real" French may or may not live in remote villages. I'd need to hear a definition of "real" to comment. Certainly, people from Brittany regard themselves as somewhat apart from the rest of France (and they do have different percentages of alleles that statistically significant - although not each and every individual does, of course).

And there are many, many people in the Loire Valley whose Y chromosomes go way way back - there are a few I-people still left in France - but does that make them "more real" than a cousin who is R?
 
Don't we need to call these southern French languages Occitan of which catalan is a close cousin!

Currently in Cittadella, Veneto , there is a yearly festival with the catalans joining in to share their similar languages and some customs.

maybe this goes back to when the Venetian republic and the kingdom of Aragon traded together in Greece.
 
My Family came from the Saintongs region of France former land of the Santone tribe but like the Pictones they became Romanized . The Santones even built a fleet of ships for the Roman invasion of England it's hard to pin point modern Celtic populations when it seems they would adapt to a invading culture some not all
 
My Family came from the Saintongs region of France former land of the Santone tribe but like the Pictones they became Romanized . The Santones even built a fleet of ships for the Roman invasion of England it's hard to pin point modern Celtic populations when it seems they would adapt to a invading culture some not all

Same here, for my (tiny as a part of my ancestry... about 1/250 parts) French side. Do you know that your family is ancient in Saintonge? It was very much a gathering place for Huguenots from all over Western France; many came from areas that were not particularly close to settle near the secure walls of La Rochelle. I descend from a family that certainly was in Saintonge at the time that they emigrated, but their surname indicates that they may have more anciently lived in Haute Bretagne.
 
The world surname profiler shows the name of Brousse in higher numbers in the Limousin area. I really don't know you can look at my 8th Great Grandfathers Marriage certificate it's all I have to go on in France
 
8th Great Grandfathers certificate dated 1690
 

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The world surname profiler shows the name of Brousse in higher numbers in the Limousin area. I really don't know you can look at my 8th Great Grandfathers Marriage certificate it's all I have to go on in France

I will try to get you links from my cousin in Toulouse. I cannot promise anything because we can only communicate in writing with he writing in occitan and me writing in venetian. ( about 70% interchangeable).
Toulouse was also in the centre of Hugenot history
 
Can anyone translate the certificate in full for me? I can understand some of it but not all Thanks in advance
 
I have a little trouble with the handwriting, and maybe spelling -- not so much with the French, but it's pretty straightforward except for a few words. It's from the parish register of a refugee church, isn't it? Anyway, if you go to Google Maps and enter Saint-Césaire, France for your search, then scale the map so that 5 kilometers is about an inch -- Taillebourg is northwest, and Cognac southeast, in that view. Homes of the bride and groom, before they became refugees.

Here's a draft:

On Sunday thirtieth of March 1690: were presented to the Consistory of this church: Jacques Brousse, Merchant Tanner, son of Elie Brousse and Marthe Allanes, Merchant of the town of Cognac in Saintonge, and Sarra Cornu, daughter of Daniel Cornu and Marie Garnier of the town of Taillebourg, also in Saintonge in the Kingdom of France. Who have requested us to have published in the Temple the news of their Marriage and of the Blessing, pursuant to the Discipline of our Churches. We have agreed to this their announcement with a good heart, in the presence of Jean Tartarin, M(aster?) cooper, and of Mathias Chaigneau, Merchant. All refugees in this town, who have all signed: J. Brousse, Tartarin J., Sara Cornu, M. Chaigneau.
 
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Thanks a million yes this document was found in London in the archives of the old Huguenot church . Jacques Brousse must have had some pull. In Manikin town he was elected Vestryman and went to plead the case for more supplies for the settlement to survive the winter. There are nobles listed in this group they never would have allowed a commoner to speak for them. Johnny Depp's 7th or 8th Great Grandfather was also in this group. I found naturalization records that shows in 1704 Jacques Brousse became James Bruce which is our surname and his son Perrier became Peter Bruce. These Protestant French could not live in any French colony so we retained none of our French heritage Like they did in Louisiana.
 
These Protestant French could not live in any French colony so we retained none of our French heritage Like they did in Louisiana.

True for the most part. It's interesting that the French Reformed Church no longer survives as a denomination in the US, whereas all of the other ethnic Reformed denominations seem to be doing fine. The German Reformed Church, although it merged mostly into the UCC, still exists in its old ethnic form as the RCUS. The Dutch Reformed Church has two large remnants in the RCA and the CRCNA. Congregationalist and Presbyterian churches are common, representing mainly the English and Scottish Calvinists, respectively. But nothing exists anymore in the US in direct continuity with the Huguenots, save some independent churches, like the Huguenot Church in Charleston, South Carolina.

Of course, there are still Huguenot heritage organizations in the US, like the Huguenot Society of America, the National Huguenot Society, and the Huguenot Society of the Founders of Manakin in the Colony of Virginia. And I'd add that cultural preservation wasn't really the goal of the Huguenot refugees. I don't know if you are, but if you're Protestant, or especially Calvinist, then you've succeeded in preserving what they would have actually felt to be important to preserve.
 
I'm Southern Baptist My 5Th Great Grandfathers brother Philip Bruce was a famous Methodist preacher he rode with the Bishop Asbury and was a chaplain at the battle of Kings mountain my 5th Great Grandfather Arnold Bruce fought in the war as well with Col. Ambros Ramsey orange county NC militia but he was not well know like his brother.In the Bishop Asbury's papers on line it has many stories about run ins Philip had with the local Torries and some of Tarleton's troop
 
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Same here, for my (tiny as a part of my ancestry... about 1/250 parts) French side. Do you know that your family is ancient in Saintonge? It was very much a gathering place for Huguenots from all over Western France; many came from areas that were not particularly close to settle near the secure walls of La Rochelle. I descend from a family that certainly was in Saintonge at the time that they emigrated, but their surname indicates that they may have more anciently lived in Haute Bretagne.
Sparky you seem to know about Huguenot history so I will present this question to you:

My ancestors Pigmon/Pimond were always said to be French and I am finding out that after around 1620 they left France to go to Hunstanton, Norfolk, England where the name is spelled Pigman. In France Pigmon is (even today) being indexed as Pimond. I find most of the family in the area of Pimond, Chanac-Les-Mines, Correze, Limousin but some are in Rhone-Alpes. I have also found in the 1600's some Pimond in the La Rochelle area. I have searched to no avail for many years on ship passenger lists. Is there any way of finding (Huguenot?) records on my family who may have come from LaRochelle to Hunstanton and Norwich, Norfolk and then in the late 1600's to the U.S. colonies?
 
Sparky you seem to know about Huguenot history so I will present this question to you:

My ancestors Pigmon/Pimond were always said to be French and I am finding out that after around 1620 they left France to go to Hunstanton, Norfolk, England where the name is spelled Pigman. In France Pigmon is (even today) being indexed as Pimond. I find most of the family in the area of Pimond, Chanac-Les-Mines, Correze, Limousin but some are in Rhone-Alpes. I have also found in the 1600's some Pimond in the La Rochelle area. I have searched to no avail for many years on ship passenger lists. Is there any way of finding (Huguenot?) records on my family who may have come from LaRochelle to Hunstanton and Norwich, Norfolk and then in the late 1600's to the U.S. colonies?

In general, you have to hope for a stroke of luck that there is a surviving passenger list with your ancestor on it. Here are some examples: Mary & Ann, Peter & Anthony, and Nassau. I didn't see any Pimond/Pigmon passengers on those, though. Many Huguenots can't be traced all the way back to France. A useful tool for figuring out where they may have originally come from is Geopatonyme, although it seems you have already done your homework with respect to where the Pimond family is based out of (clearly Corrèze).
 
Thank you Sparkey for your reply, I didn't find it until today. Maybe I can set this forum to e-mail me when someone answers my post.

Actually I do not think they will be on a list because of the circumstances of the Huguenots. Many of them walked to the English channel and crossed secretly at night. When in the Hunstanton, Norfolk area they were listed at first as non-conformists and later on in the 1600's as members of the Church of England. (probably because they were again forced to convert).

Some Pigmon/Pimond/Pigmans stayed, some went to Tilburg, Nord-Brabant, Netherlands (Pigmans with an s spelling in Holland) and I think one came over to Maryland in the late 1600's or there could have been 2 migrations - one to North Carolina just before the War for Independence. The frustrating thing is there are no records of my family on the ship passenger lists that early. The genetic distance is 5 for one comparison between myself and a Maryland Pigman where it should have been a 3 if we are all descended from the same ancestor.

So I will keep looking.
 
France is an ethnically complex country. It is the largest country in Europe. It has been settled or invaded by all the great cultures of Europe : Celts, Basques, Greeks, Romans, Germans, Norses, etc. Furthermore, it is usually accepted that northern France is closer both culturally and ethnically to northern Europe, while the southern part of the country is definitely more southern European in every respect.

But things get even more complicated once we try to divide France by region according to how people look, or what DNA tests tell us. There is no clear divide between all the peoples that have settled in France in history.

The easiest group to spot are the Basques, around the western Pyrenees, who have managed to keep a strong cultural identity of their own.

The Bretons are often considered to be the last "Celts" in France. Although they may be the last to speak a Celtic language, genetically they are far from being outsiders like the Basques. In fact, most of France used to be Celtic 2000 years ago, and Celtic genes can still be found in most of the country.

The most "Celtic" parts of France are the remotest ones, deep into the mountains of the Massif Central, especially in Auvergne and the Cevennes. Brittany is in fact less genuinely Celtic due to the influx of Germanic people from Normandy or Britain.

Notwithstanding a series of invasions by various Germanic tribes (Franks, Burgunds, Visigoths, Danish Vikings...), and territory gained over Germany (Alsace and Lorraine), the only region that is overwhelmingly of Germanic descent is the Nord-Pas-de-Calais, only annexed to France 350 years ago. Normandy, Picardy, Champagne, Lorraine and Alsace have all a lot of Germanic blood, although mixed with indigenous Celtic one.

The Mediterranean coast of France was settled very early by the Greeks, who founded such cities as Nice, Marseilles or Montpellier. This was also the first region of France to come under Roman domination, and to be heavily settled by Roman people. Consequently, most of the people from the Languedoc to the Provence are closer to central Italians and Greeks than to central and northern French people.

But the most surprising of all is to find people who look typically Mediterranean as far north as the Loire Valley, in the traditional provinces of Poitou, Anjou, Tourraine and Berry. This appears to be another region of France heavily settled by the Romans. Tests of the Y-chromosome have shown so far (although at an early stage of research) that a lot of people in this region indeed belonged to haplogroup J2, typical of Greco-Roman people.

Here is a map of the ethnic division of France inspired by Prof. Montandon's work. Names of traditional provinces as well as a few key cities were added for an increased visibility.

france_races.jpg



Roman population didn't leave genetic legacy, according genetics, and like most of the invaders made up only a tiny part of society.
Mediterannoids have always lived in France.
 
Romans also hadn't rilevant genetic impact in Iberia, like in all counties they conquered. The impact was political and cultural.
Besides most Roman generals in Iberia, France, etc. were Latinized locals.


Roman legions were not only composed of Italo-Romans ----> Cohors I Celtiberorum Equitata civium romanorum---->http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohors_...vium_romanorum


2º ----> Cohors I Celtiberorum ---->http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohors_I_Celtiberorum



many Celtiberians were assigned to Hadrian's Wall in England, many of the Roman legions who invaded Iberia were composed of Gauls, Germans and people from the Balkans.

Balkans = J2 influence
 
Germanic Conquerors 5%

Roman population didn't leave genetic legacy, according genetics, and like most of the invaders made up only a tiny part of society.
Mediterannoids have always lived in France.

The Germanic conquerors who ruled France for over 1,000 years as the nobility only made up about 5% of the population. France was named after the Franks, a Germanic tribe from Franken (northern Bavaria) who crossed the Rhine at Franfort ("Ford of the Rhine"). The Burgundians came from the Danish island of Bornholm (Borgonderholm). The Visigoths, from southern Sweden, also made up part of the French nobility. The Normans came from Norway. Even today, in Norwegian, the word for a Norwegian is "Normand." The Normans conquered Normandy in 911, led by Rollo the Viking. In 1066 they conquered England and became the English nobility.
 
The Germanic conquerors who ruled France for over 1,000 years as the nobility only made up about 5% of the population. France was named after the Franks, a Germanic tribe from Franken (northern Bavaria) who crossed the Rhine at Franfort ("Ford of the Rhine"). The Burgundians came from the Danish island of Bornholm (Borgonderholm). The Visigoths, from southern Sweden, also made up part of the French nobility. The Normans came from Norway. Even today, in Norwegian, the word for a Norwegian is "Normand." The Normans conquered Normandy in 911, led by Rollo the Viking. In 1066 they conquered England and became the English nobility.

Yes, like I said really a tiny part became Germanic of the existing population. The rest you may assume are descendants of the Gauls.
 

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