Politics Greek parliament approves Macedonia's new name

[Yetos]

GUYS

MOST OF YOU SAY WHAT EVER

YOU SAY about Boucarest,
you say about Makedonian the Slavs,

BUT NONE OF YOU SAY ABOUT THE TREATY ΠΟΛΙΤΗ-KALFOV

THERE WAS A TREATY ABOUT EXCANGING POPULATION AMONG GREECE BULGARIA AND SERBIA (Owner of Bardaska Bodovina)
BUT SERBS DENY IT,

AS THERE IS NO GREEK MINORITY IN TURKEY DUE TO EXCANGE OF POPULATION,
THE ATTATOURK-BENIZELOS (except Thrace and Constantinopolis)

THERE IS NO SLAVIC MINORITY (Slavo-Makedonian as you Like it)
CAUSE EXCHANGE WAS DONE AMONG GREEK AND BULGARIA,
AND WAS TO BE DONE AMONG GREECE AND SERBIA.
BUT SERBIA BLOCKED THE TREATY.

SO THOSE WHO CLAIM AS SLAVIC MINORITY IN GREECE AND SPEAK THE SLAVIC LANGUAGE
MAY ASK SERBIA TO ACCEPT THEM, SINCE THEY WERE BLOCKED BY SERBIA AT EXCANGE OF POPULATION
BY THE ΠΟΛΙΤΗ-KALFOV TREATY

THERE IS NO SLAVIC MINORITY,
CAUSE A TREATY WAS SIGNED.
GREEKS LEFT FYROM,
BUT SLAVS WERE NOT ACCEPTED BY SERBIA.

SO THOSE WHO WANT TO BE MINORITY,
LET THEM GO TO SERBIA (not FYROM)
WHICH BLOCKED THEIR EXCHANGE,
WHILE BULGARIA ACCEPTED.


PERIOD IGNORANTS,

READ THE POLITI-KALFOV TREATY.

that is a village creted by Greek who left Nesebar Bulgaria
many villages also created in Bulgaria,

https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Νέα_Μεσημβρία

So the Serbs who owned that time Bardaska Bodovina,
Deny the exchange,
Greeks left Monasterion and other Fyrom cities occupied by Serbia.
But the Slavs were left in Greece !!!!!! cause not recogned as minority
SO THERE IS NO MINORITY,
SINCE THE SLAVS (Serbian friendly) DID NOT ACCEPT THEM SHELVES AS MINORITY AT 1920's
BY THE POLITI-KALFOV TREATY.
MINORITY IS RECOGNED ONLY AFTER WAR ACTIONS,
AND AFTER OCCUPATION

PERIOD.

If the 5000 living want to call them shelves as minority (4500 by rainbow party)
FIRST THEY MUST ASK SERBIA ABOUT POLITI-KALFOV
AND WHY SERBIA DID NOT RECOGNISE THEM AS MINORITY,
AND NOT BLAIM GREECE.

IF SERBIA RECOGN THEM AS MINORITY,
THEN TODAY IN FYROM WOULD ALSO EXISTED A GREEK MINORITY
AND IN GREECE A SLAVIC MINORITY.

and because stupidity is enough here.

that is the Turkish census with out Turks and Albanians (muslims)
by Hilmi Pasha

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hüseyin_Hilmi_Pasha

first vertical Greeks
Second Vertical Vlachs and Orthodox Albanians
third vertical Slavophones (Severnii)
4rth column Bulgarians
5 others


THE CENSUS OF VON DER GOLTZ
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colmar_Freiherr_von_der_Goltz

For villaet of Thessaloniki and Monasterion (Slavic Bitola) Metohia villaet (kossovo) is excluded
Muslims (Turks and Albanians) 730 000
Greeks 580 000
Slavs 266 000

Vlachs are counted as Greeks or Romanian
Orthodox Albanians are measured as Greeks or Vlachs
Jews and Catholics measured seperatly

Jews are 43 000 !!! only in Thessaloniki city by British ambassador


same numbers give also the British embassy at Thessaloniki



Now the Bulgarian census estimation 1905 (excludes areas of red in map bellow)

Bulgarians 1 170 000
Greeks 190 000 (half central and upper makedonia is excluded)
Ottomans (Turks and Albanians) 840 000
Serbs 700
Vlachs (Romanians included) 63 000
Albanian christians 12 000
Jews 68 000


By the German army estimation (helper and ally of Ottoman empire that era)
For the 2 Viallets of Thessaloniki and Monasterion, Metohia is excluded.


Turks 230 000
Greeks 200 000 (wow 10 000 more than the bulgarian estimation which excluded big parts)
Slavs 2 000 000 (same number with Serbian and Bulgarian claims)
Albanians 300 000
Vlachs 100 000
other 90 000 (Jews included)

as we see german makes distinguish among Turks and Albanian muslims which Hilmi pasha census did not. yet the number is about 200 000 lower that otoomans and others measure it
for first time Germans did not divide Slavs to Bulgarian and Serbs or to Bulgarian exarchate, Constantinopoplis patriarchical, Serbian patriarchate.
the estimation of Vlachs, Romanians, and in some census Albanian orthodox which included is about the same in most statistics,
generally are considered Constanipolis patriarchate, non Greek speakers.

As we see the german census is simmilar with Bulgarian and Serbian,
but giving Ottomans much much lower,

on the other hand
the Greek army statistic 1905

Turks 518 000
Greeks 650 000
Slavs 474 000
Albanians (muslim) 124 000
Vlachs 40 000
Jews 53 000

The Greek statistics consider a big part of Vlachs as Greeks,
Divides Turks and Albanian muslims by language,
the statistic of the Greek army is closer to Hilmi Pasha census,
and Gives more Slavs than the one of the Der Goltz

THE VILLAET OF METOCHIA IS EXCLUDED MAINLY DUE TO ITS PLACE,
IT WAS AN AREA INCLUDING KOSSOVO SKOPJIE AND SANZAK,
AREA CLEAR SLAVIC AND TURK-ALBANIAN (muslim) and some Vlachs ( I know due to my family ancestry and jobs)
THE VILLAET OF METOHIA HAS VERY SMALL % OF GREEKS AND WAS NEVER IN DISCUSS AMONG GREEKS AND SLAVS, OR GREEKS AND ALBANIANS.
IT IS MAINLY A FIELD OF SLAVS AND ALBANIANS ARGUE.


THE GREEK MINORITY IN SKOPJIE or FYROM or SLAVOMAKEDONIA

The Monasterion inhabitant analogy by the census,
in most Census the city of Monasterion (today Bitola)
has a population of 34 to 53 000 Greeks
The era of Politi Kalfov treaty most of this population left to Greece.
the Serbian state which that era occupied the city,
did not recogn a Slavic minority in Greece,
as Also did recogn a Greek minority in Monasterion Geygelia Strumnitsa Perlepe and other areas
that blocked the exchange of population.
yet the Greeks left Fyrom,

But there are qitaps officially by the Ottoman empire era,
which Communist era did not recognise,
but in order to recognise a Slavic minority in Greece,
then you must recogn the qitaps of Ottoman era,
meaning that tenths of thousands of Greeks that today live in Greece, or abroad,
must given back their land and properties,
or pay them the prize, of state forced occupation, in case that the state used these properties.


AFTERMATH

IF SLAVS WANT TO BE RECOGNED AS MINORITY IN GREECE.
THEIR MAJORITY STATE MUST ACCEPT WHAT THE SERBIANS DID NOT DONE.
A GREEK MINORITY AT FYROM,
GIVE BACK THEIR PROPERTIES ACCORDING THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE QITAP (continuity of state)
AND THEN TO ASK TO RECOGNED.
ALL THESE BY GLOBAL AND OFFICIALLY LAWS OF NATIONS SOCIETY OR UNITED NATIONS ORGs.

PERIOD.

IF SLAVS IN GREECE WANT TO BE RECOGNED AS MINORITY,
THEIR MAJOR STATE TODAY MUST RECOGNED THE GREEK MINORITY,
WHICH WAS NOT RECOGNED AT POLITI KALFOV TREATY BY SERBIA,

so let them beg Skopjie to be recogned,
or blaim Serbia, for not being recogned,
not Greece.



THAT FOR ALL THOSE IGNPORANTS HERE,
WHO HAVE NO OTHER JOB,
AND DO NOT LOOK THEIR COUNTRY MESS, and shame
BUT LOOK OTHERS


BTW

The map bellow is by Germans

the red areas were considered as 100% non Slavic or very small presence
and excluded by Bulgarian Serbian and German army statistics of population
but included from Hilmi pasha and Der Goltz

 

[Milan.M]

BBC News
Greece's invisible minority - the Macedonian Slavs

24 February 2019 Stories

Greeks protest in Thessaloniki against the agreement on the name North Macedonia
By ratifying an agreement with the newly renamed Republic of North Macedonia, Greece has implicitly recognised the existence of a Macedonian language and ethnicity. And yet it has denied the existence of its own Macedonian minority for decades, says Maria Margaronis. Will something now change?
Mr Fokas, 92, stands straight as a spear in his tan leather brogues and cream blazer, barely leaning on the ebony and ivory cane brought from Romania by his grandfather a century ago. His mind and his memory are as sharp as his outfit.
A retired lawyer, Mr Fokas speaks impeccable formal Greek with a distinctive lilt: his mother tongue is Macedonian, a Slavic language related to Bulgarian and spoken in this part of the Balkans for centuries. At his son's modern house in a village in northern Greece, he takes me through the painful history of Greece's unrecognised Slavic-speaking minority.

Mr Fokas takes care to emphasise from the start that he is both an ethnic Macedonian and a Greek patriot. He has good reason to underline his loyalty: for almost a century, ethnic Macedonians in Greece have been objects of suspicion and, at times, persecution, even as their presence has been denied by almost everyone.
Most are reluctant to speak to outsiders about their identity. To themselves and others, they're known simply as "locals" ( dopyi ), who speak a language called "local" ( dopya ). They are entirely absent from school history textbooks, have not featured in censuses since 1951 (when they were only patchily recorded, and referred to simply as "Slavic-speakers"), and are barely mentioned in public. Most Greeks don't even know that they exist.
That erasure was one reason for Greece's long-running dispute with the former Yugoslav republic now officially called the Republic of North Macedonia. The dispute was finally resolved last month by a vote in the Greek parliament ratifying (by a majority of just seven) an agreement made last June by the countries' two prime ministers. When the Greek Prime Minster, Alexis Tsipras, referred during the parliamentary debate to the existence of "Slavomacedonians" in Greece - at the time of World War Two - he was breaking a long-standing taboo.

The use of the name "Macedonia" by the neighbouring nation state implicitly acknowledges that Macedonians are a people in their own right, and opens the door to hard questions about the history of Greece's own Macedonian minority.
When Mr Fokas was born, the northern Greek region of Macedonia had only recently been annexed by the Greek state. Until 1913 it was part of the Ottoman Empire, with Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia all wooing its Slavic-speaking inhabitants as a means to claiming the territory. It was partly in reaction to those competing forces that a distinctive Slav Macedonian identity emerged in the late 19th and early 20th Century. As Mr Fokas's uncle used to say, the family was "neither Serb, nor Greek, nor Bulgarian, but Macedonian Orthodox".

In the end, the Slav Macedonians found themselves divided between those three new states. In Greece, some were expelled; those who remained were pushed to assimilate. All villages and towns with non-Greek names were given new ones, chosen by a committee of scholars in the late 1920s, though almost a century later some "locals" still use the old ones.
In 1936, when Mr Fokas was nine years old, the Greek dictator Ioannis Metaxas (an admirer of Mussolini) banned the Macedonian language, and forced Macedonian-speakers to change their names to Greek ones.
Mr Fokas remembers policemen eavesdropping on mourners at funerals and listening at windows to catch anyone speaking or singing in the forbidden tongue. There were lawsuits, threats and beatings.
Women - who often spoke no Greek - would cover their mouths with their headscarves to muffle their speech, but Mr Fokas's mother was arrested and fined 250 drachmas, a big sum back then.

Macedonian villagers in Greece in 1947
"Slavic-speakers suffered a lot from the Greeks under Metaxas," he says. "Twenty people from this village, the heads of the big families, were exiled to the island of Chios. My father-in-law was one of them." They were tortured by being forced to drink resin oil, a powerful laxative.
When Germany, Italy and Bulgaria invaded Greece in 1941, some Slavic-speakers welcomed the Bulgarians as potential liberators from Metaxas's repressive regime. But many soon joined the resistance, led by the Communist Party (which at that time supported the Macedonian minority) and continued fighting with the Communists in the civil war that followed the Axis occupation. (Bulgaria annexed the eastern part of Greek Macedonia from 1941 to 1944, committing many atrocities; many Greeks wrongly attribute these to Macedonians, whom they identify as Bulgarians.)
When the Communists were finally defeated, severe reprisals followed for anyone associated with the resistance or the left.
"Macedonians paid more than anyone for the civil war," Mr Fokas says. "Eight people were court-martialled and executed from this village, eight from the next village, 23 from the one opposite. They killed a grandfather and his grandson, just 18 years old."

A Greek protester wears a Balkan War uniform to oppose the agreement on "North Macedonia"
Mr Fokas was a student in Thessaloniki then - but he too was arrested and spent three years on the prison island of Makronisos, not because of anything he'd done but because his mother had helped her brother-in-law escape through the skylight of a cafe where he was being held.
Most of the prisoners on Makronisos were Greek leftists, and were pressed to sign declarations of repentance for their alleged Communist past. Those who refused were made to crawl under barbed wire, or beaten with thick bamboo canes. "Terrible things were done," Mr Fokas says. "But we mustn't talk about them. It's an insult to Greek civilisation. It harms Greece's good name."
Tens of thousands of fighters with the Democratic Army, about half of them Slavic-speakers, went into exile in Eastern bloc countries during and after the civil war. About 20,000 children were taken across the border by the Communists, whether for their protection or as reserve troops for a future counter-attack.
Many Slavic-speaking civilians also went north for safety. Entire villages were left empty, like the old settlement of Krystallopigi (Smrdes in Macedonian) near the Albanian border, where only the imposing church of St George stands witness to a population that once numbered more than 1,500 souls.

In 1982, more than 30 years after the conflict's end, Greece's socialist government issued a decree allowing civil war refugees to return - but only those who were "of Greek ethnicity". Ethnic Macedonians from Greece remained shut out of their country, their villages and their land; families separated by the war were never reunited.
Mr Fokas's father-in-law and brother-in-law both died in Skopje. But, he points out, that decree tacitly recognised that there were ethnic Macedonians in Greece, even though the state never officially recognised their existence: "Those war refugees left children, grandchildren, fathers, mothers behind. What were they, if not Macedonians?"

It's impossible accurately to calculate the number of Slavic-speakers or descendants of ethnic Macedonians in Greece. Historian Leonidas Embiricos estimates that more than 100,000 still live in the Greek region of Macedonia, though only 10,000 to 20,000 would identify openly as members of a minority - and many others are proud Greek nationalists.
The Macedonian language hasn't officially been banned in Greece for decades, but the fear still lingers. A middle-aged man I met in a village near the reed beds of Lake Prespa, where the agreement between Greece and the North Macedonian republic was first signed last June, explained that this fear is passed down through the generations. "My parents didn't speak the language at home in case I picked it up and spoke it in public. To protect me. We don't even remember why we're afraid any more," he said. Slowly the language is dying. Years of repression pushed it indoors; assimilation is finishing the job.

The borders of Greece, North Macedonia and Albania meet in Lake Prespa
And yet speaking or singing in Macedonian can still be cause for harassment. Mr. Fokas' son is a musician; he plays the haunting Macedonian flute for us as his own small son looks on. He and a group of friends used to host an international music festival in the village square, with bands from as far away as Brazil, Mexico and Russia.
"After those bands had played we'd have a party and play Macedonian songs," he says. "None of them were nationalist or separatist songs - we would never allow that. But in 2008, just as we were expecting the foreign musicians to arrive, the local authority suddenly banned us from holding the festival in the square, even though other people - the very ones who wanted us banned - still hold their own events there."
Greece's position
The Greek government officially recognises only one minority - the Muslim minority of Thrace
It has historically regarded the Macedonian Slavs of Greek Macedonia as a linguistic rather than a national group, referring to them as Slavophone Greeks or bilingual Greeks - the agreement on the name of North Macedonia requires Skopje to change its constitution to remove references to a "minority" in Greece
A document issued in the early 1990s , says that "almost all the bilingual inhabitants of the area whose national consciousness was not Greek moved to neighbouring states" in the first half of the 20th Century - by implication, any bilingual people who remained possessed Greek national consciousness
At the last minute, the festival was moved to a field outside the village, among the reeds and marshes, without proper facilities - which, Mr Fokas's son points out, only made Greece look bad.
"And do you know why the songs are banned in the square but not the fields outside?" his father adds. "Because around the square there are cafes, and local people could sit there and watch and listen secretly. But outside the village they were afraid to join in - they would have drawn attention to themselves by doing that."

Protests against the agreement on the name of North Macedonia became violent
The ratification of Greece's agreement with the Republic of North Macedonia - and its implicit recognition of a Macedonian language and ethnicity - is a major political breakthrough which should help to alleviate such fears. But the process has also sparked new waves of anger and anxiety, with large, sometimes violent protests opposing the agreement, supported by parts of the Orthodox church.
An election is due before the end of the year. Greece's right-wing opposition has been quick to capitalise on nationalist sentiments, accusing the Syriza government of treason and betrayal. For Greece's Slavic-speakers, who have long sought nothing more than the right to cultural expression, the time to emerge from the shadows may not quite yet have arrived.
Mr Fokas has been referred to by his first name to protect his identity

The article is spot on especially when i was researching about Macedonian identity and how it emerges

Until 1913 it was part of the Ottoman Empire, with Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia all wooing its Slavic-speaking inhabitants as a means to claiming the territory. It was partly in reaction to those competing forces that a distinctive Slav Macedonian identity emerged in the late 19th and early 20th Century.

This people were recruited by Bulgarian,Serbian and Greek armies in fights against Ottomans left aside some of their own rebelions,and to all of the three sides they were and are traitors to this day,for a reason unknown, and yet the people of the Macedonian region all ethnicities included suffered the most,perhaps in Ottoman times they had more liberty,people living in Greek Macedonia the Slavic speakers were telling that in Turkish times they had right to speak their language,go in their schools,had churches and so on,when the Greeks came all of that was banned.

 

[Milan.M]

Very aggressive this person dressed in red, this çakall.
What happened to the priest, did the police arrested him?

I really don't know what happened with him,i only remember those videos and this one,when the leader of the party of Slav Macedonians on TV was trying to be silenced for expressing in his own language with just a sentence,even today in the 21 century.From 2:11 min

 

[LABERIA]

The Albanians
To keep Albania savage and ignorant is a fundamental principle of Abdul Hamid's statescraft. Macedonia is covered with schools which disseminate the views of every conceivable racial propaganda. There are Greek schools to Hellenise Vlachs and Slavs and Albanians. There are Bulgarian schools which maintain the schism within the Orthodox Church. There are Servian schools to split the Slav element. There are Roumanian schools to detach the Vlachs from the Hellenic interest. On all of these the Porte smiles with an indifferent and capricious favour. The more schools there are and the more propagandas, the less fear is there of a coalition among the Christians against he Turkish yoke. For all of these there is a contemptuous tolerance. They are part of the hereditary Ottoman tradition of dividing to conquer. But Albanian schools fall under a very different category. In them the Turks have seen a force making not for discord, but for unity. The Albanians, divided in religion, have only their language in common, and in the cult of that language lies the hope of the reunion of Moslem and Christian. The Albanian movement, nationalist like all the others, differed from them in seeking its rallying-point not in a religious but in a secular propaganda.

Source:
Macedonia; its races and their future ([1906])
Author: Brailsford, Henry Noel, 1873-1958
https://archive.org/details/macedoniaitsrace00braiuoft

Who was Henry Noel Brailsford:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._N._Brailsford

 

[Yetos]

IF SLAVS IN GREECE WANT TO BE RECOGNED AS MINORITY,
THEIR MAJOR STATE TODAY MUST RECOGNED THE GREEK MINORITY,
WHICH WAS NOT RECOGNED AT POLITI KALFOV TREATY BY SERBIA,
WHEN OCCUPIED TODAY FYROM.

so let them beg Skopjie to be recogned,
or blaim Serbia, for not being recogned,
not Greece.



THAT FOR ALL THOSE IGNPORANTS HERE,
WHO HAVE NO OTHER JOB,
AND DO NOT LOOK THEIR COUNTRY MESS, and shame
BUT LOOK OTHERS




IF SLAVS WANT TO BE RECOGNED AS MINORITY IN GREECE.
THEIR MAJORITY STATE MUST ACCEPT WHAT THE SERBIANS DID NOT DONE.
A GREEK MINORITY AT FYROM,
GIVE BACK THEIR PROPERTIES ACCORDING THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE QITAP (continuity of state)
AND THEN TO ASK TO RECOGNED.
ALL THESE BY GLOBAL AND OFFICIALLY LAWS OF NATIONS SOCIETY OR UNITED NATIONS ORGs.


BUCAREST TREATY MAP.

If Serbia recogned Greek minority, in Monasterion
Greece was forced to recogn Slavic minority in Greece,
But Serbia did not Did so,
While Bulgaria did recogned,
and an exchange among Greek and Bulgaria was done,

SO the Slavs or Slavomakedonians in Greece must blaime Serbia for they are NOT recogned as minority,

FIND AND READ POLITIS-KALFOV TREATY
SOmething that Serbia denied

 

[Pericles]

Macedonian is an integral part of Greek consciousness and nationality. It joins ancient Greece through Hellenistic Greece, Byzantine Greece and to the Renaissance in the West to Byron and Modern Greek Independence. Actual ancient Macedonia is the territory of current Greek Macedonia. North "Macedonia" is actually geographic north ROMAN Macedonia.

 

[Yetos]

Prespes treaty might be not recognised, after the election in Greece,

Prespes treaty, a full biased treaty push by J Pyatt (USA ambassador, Kotzias and Zaev)
might change in summer, and might be canceled by Greece.
The treaty altough has the signature of Niemetz is biased oligarchy agreement pushe by J Pyatt, via his 'friends' Kotzias and Zaev
(kotzias is an ex-Communist who agreed with Blent treaty, that is why choose Pisoderi as land of agreement, a land that all Greeks want to forget, due to civil war)

J Pyatt as in Ukraine where he lost Crimaia,
manage to divide to Greeks, to restart the mamories and the feelings of the 1945-49 civil war.

The main problem is in both states,
in Fyrom is the problem that the treaty is not signed by their President of democracy,
which officially makes it illegal.
in Greece is that is against constituional laws, which in cases of such Διεθνικες as it called, (means war, peace, and alliance treaties, not economical)
demands either referendum and 51% either 2/3 of parliament votes above 66% meaning (180)
that makes the treaty not legal, although partially legalized by president.

Yet when all politicians believed that the crisis, the unemployment, will make people forget,
it seems the oposite,
Greeks resist in a civilised degree, in every moment it is given to them,

as you see in video,
the most easy thing is to lynch the parliamental who voted Prespes treaty.
it is very easy, since 20 policeman can not protect him,
yet the people stay calm, and simply protest,
for we will not make the favor to J Pyatt and NATO to divide in to a new civil war,
as happened in Ukraine.

[video=youtube;NaW2toYGy-Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=11&v=NaW2toYGy-Y[/video]


it seems that a plan to ask referendum after the new elections, is planed by the 'small' parties
as the president of one of them (ok he is not a genius or the politician)
to cancel the Prespes treaty

We will not be divided again to the degree of civil war,
neither for NATO, Neither for EU, neither for Russia, neither for any neighbour who wants to be of 'Greek ancestry'.


The blood in the flag is recent, not over a month, when armed policed pretected a 'minister' by smashing down the head of a protester
maybe our mouths are sealed, our tongues are tied,
but the blood SPEAKS

So Pyatt take Alexis and Go Home
at 1821 people like you were called ...
and are mentioned in all historical events.

 

[Dr.Shwartz]

So if Macedonia is forbidden name for slavic country so what's the alternative? Skopia?

 

[Tristan Seitz]

Thanks for sharing this article!

 

[olivia33]

The FYR of Macedonia (to become North Macedonia) is the North Macedonian region depicted by a German historian in the 19th century, during the late Ottoman Empire. This geographical concept stuck for the last few centuries. However, it doesn't correspond to the historical region of (classical) Macedonia. This is almost in its entirety in Northern Greece.

 

[EvanMarshman]

he fact is that the problem of minorities does not go anywhere. That is, their discrimination remains local. But at least we have to deal with this at work, and we try not to single out specialists in this way.