How can IE migration be explained without mentioning Seima Turbino?

- sarmatians form Trajan's Column (Cited from:

The following things are "Ancient Greek Bronze Museum Statue Replica of Horse From Geometric Era." It seems to me that they are not a fake. Their triangle patterns are same as seima turbino one below.
Moreover They seemed to think of horse neck as ouroboros and mane as sun's ray like a snake.



seima turbino:
Bronze dagger (left) and bronze pommel (right).

The horse seems to be a special one for special people. Its mane is like a shape of dragon. And there are snake patterns or snake scale(?) on its neck. It reminds me of Longma (dragon horse) in the mythology of china where PIE land on.(Long means dragon, ma horse):


Bronze Age Northern Eurasian Genetics in the Context of Development of Metallurgy and Siberian Ancestry​

Ainash Childebayeva, Fabian Fricke, View ORCID ProfileAdam Benjamin Rohrlach, Lei Huang, Stephan Schiffels, Outi Vesakoski, Lena Semerau, Franziska Aron, Vyacheslav Moiseyev, Valery Khartanovich, Igor Kovtun, Johannes Krause, Sergey Kuzminykh, Wolfgang Haak

"The Eurasian Bronze Age (BA) has been described as a period of substantial human migrations, the emergence of pastoralism, horse domestication, and development of metallurgy. This study focuses on individuals associated with BA metallurgical production, specifically the Seima-Turbino (ST) phenomenon (∼2,200-1,900 BCE) associated with elaborate metal objects found across Northern Eurasia. The genetic profiles of nine ST-associated individuals vary widely ranging between ancestries maximized in individuals from the Eastern Siberian Late Neolithic/BA, and those of the Western Steppe Middle Late BA. The genetic heterogeneity observed is consistent with the current understanding of the ST metallurgical network as a transcultural phenomenon. The new data also shed light on the temporal and spatial range of an ancient Siberian genetic ancestry component, which is shared across many Uralic-speaking populations, and which we explore further via demographic modeling using additional genome-wide (2 individuals) and whole genome data (5 individuals, including a ∼30x genome) from northwestern Russia."

Y-chromosome haplogroups.

"We performed Y-haplogroup (Y-hg) typing of the ROT malesusing the YMCA method19 388 (Table 1). We identified two individuals that carried the R1a Y-hg389 (ROT003 (R1a-M417) and ROT016 (R1a-Z645)), one of the most widely distributed Y-hgs inEurasia40 390 . However, both individuals could be R1a-Z645, since ROT003 does not have either391 ancestral or derived ISOGG list SNPs after R1a-M417.

ROT002, the individual with the highest proportion of north Siberian ancestry, was assigned to399 the N1a1a1a1a (N-L392) haplogroup.

Another individual407 (ROT017) was determined to belong to the Q1b1 (Q-L53) haplogroup, which is common408 among present-day Turkic speakers across Eurasia. The branch Q-YP4004 includes Central409 Asian Q-L53(xL54) lineages and one ancient Native American individual from Lovelock Cavein Nevada dated 1.8 ky47 410 , and the oldest individual with this haplogroup is irk040 (Cis-BaikalNeolithic, 4846 BP)28 411 . The lineage C2a-L1373, carried by ROT011, is found at high frequency412 in Central Asian populations, North Asia and the Americas. C2a-L1373 expanded to North Asiaand the Americas post-LGM, around 17,700–14,300 years ago48 413 .

Lastly, haplogroup R1b1a1a414 (R1b-M73), a sister-clade of R1b-M269, is carried by ROT006."
Thanks for your feeding, Johen.
Macro-regional interconnections among ancient hunter-gatherers of the Cis-Baikal, Eastern Siberia

The presence of the Seima-Turbino phase is also evidenced by a find of ananthropomorhic figurine, which finds parallels in Rostovka and Galich hoard (Stefanov, 2004). Supplementary Information p138 below:




- Chariot people spread IE and left their footprint:



-Ladakh, India


- chinese script or character of (sky): 2nd one:


-america indian shaman (=sky):


Okunevo sky petroglyph page 188:

in the northern fringes of the steppe belt, i stressed the extreme importance of the okunev culture which had on the one hand connections with the far east and, on the other, definite links with the south of central asia. meanwhile i discovered a group of petroglyphs in the indus valley, near chilas, that is connected with the engravings of the okunev culture by the main motifs and stylistic peculiarities. in addition to one report on my findings (jettmar 1982: 298-302), others are forthcoming. it is not improbable that during the third and early second millemmia b.c. there were relations over thousands of kilometers, perhaps due to migrations of cattle-keeping early nomads. other connections leading in the same direction were observed by stacul (1977:251-252) and the allchins (1982:111-116).

- Face mask of “Ladakh”.

17-0902f3895d.jpg (711×936) (

- Okunevo and Ladakh images:

18-d9787bb98a.jpg (711×851) (

(99+) Okunev petroglyphs in Pakistan as evidence of migrationLiudmila Sokolova+fig.docx | Людмила Соколова -

- Okunevo PIE culture, Third eye:

Three faces:

- ST MASK culture

1607_2020_1.jpg (300×152) ( Musaeum Scythia: Genomic insights into the Seima-Turbino Phenomenon

"Литейщики" бронзового века | АКАДЕМГОРОДОК (

ST migration In China:



- ST Borodino site with mycenaean and celtic culture:

"The Sarmatian armies included among other types of combatants, many cataphract cavalrymen protected (like their horses) with nearly full-length metal armor (usually scale armor). They also included many horse-archers and horse-spearmen without any cuirass. The cataphracts fought mainly as lancers with a long heavy spear (like the subsequent European knights) as their main offensive weapon. They were also carrying a composite bow, a long sword and a dagger. The familiar to us, figure of the Late Medieval European knight was created when the East Germanics (Goths, Vandals, Burgundians), the Suebi Germanics (Marcomanni, Longobards/Lombards, Quadi) and the Romans adopted the full Sarmatian cavalry equipment. The decimation of the Roman army by the Gotho-Sarmatian cavalry at the battle of Adrianople in 378 AD, established the dominance of the knight (cataphract) during the Middle Ages. The Normans of Northern France were the ones who shaped the final form of chivalry."

"A spangenhelm, popular to the Sarmatians (many researchers consider it to be of Sarmatian origin), the Later Romans, the Romano-Britons and many barbarian peoples (Goths, Huns, Saxons etc.) (Source: Periklis Deligiannis)."

"A representation of a Draconarius, a Roman standard-bearer of the Late Empire, by the British Historical Association Comitatus. He holds the banner of the Dragon which the Roman army bequeathed to the Romano–British army who confronted the Anglo-Saxons. The dragon was a Saka/Sarmatian symbol (and banner), adopted from China to the Roman Empire."


okunevo 25 below:


7 point star Hallstatt:

2-1 Qijia, 2-2, 2-4 bronze mirror in shang china where Seima and Karasuk reached:

Die Sonnenscheibe von Moordorf, nordic bronze age:

Exploring Complexity in Bronze Age Exchange Networks by Revisiting the Bronze Mirrors of Central Asia and China Published online by Cambridge University Press: 03 November 2023

"The two earliest mirrors from Gamatai (Qijia culture site) and Tianshanbeilu can be dated to around the early second millennium bce, and although there are no earlier examples from Central Asia or the Eurasian Steppe, it is clear that both reflect the crystallization of broader processes involved in the spread of bronze metallurgy across Eurasia. The distinctive star design on the Gamatai mirror is strikingly similar to designs on Seima-Turbino metalwork, suggesting that the mirror arrived in Qinghai from northern Central Asia via indirect trade networks or mobile craftspeople and traders. The Tianshanbeilu mirror, though dated to approximately the same period, appears in a very different context, as the mirror may have been made locally using metallurgical techniques brought from the steppe. The two mirrors thus potentially represent two separate processes within different socio-cultural contexts.

Despite ever-improving data on the development of metallurgical industries in northern China, the production and exchange mechanisms leading to the appearance of mirrors ever further east are less clear. The late Shang had the technological capacity to produce bronze objects, yet loop mirrors were not something they chose to make. Instead, the mirrors buried with Fu Hao were clearly obtained from outside the Shang cultural sphere, and the decorations speak strongly to a link with the one from Gamatai. Whether the Shang acquired them from Qijia societies or both groups obtained mirrors from the same craftspeople or metal-producing societies remains unclear. Although Qijia remains are located geographically nearer to the Central Plain, the fact that the Gamatai mirror is unlikely to have been made locally means that it cannot be taken as evidence for direct connections between the two societies."
Jesus Christ of yours,pile of a bunch unrelated stuff to prove "Indo-european somehow "created" China,You are amazing.China origins in Fuxi time 7000 years ago,During the separation of Han and Hmong,claim received the Hetu and luoshu from Skylord and mandate of heaven,Fuxi of gourd,is O2(old O3) mythology.
Pure Han people do not have haplogroup R. Just look downstream to see the so-called haplogroup R. Their history is very short, at most they date to the Han Dynasty (people captured from Xiongnu), and the rest are Persian merchants. R are extremely rare among the Han people. Pure Han people( people on the north bank of the Huai River), R is basically 0
R is basically excluded from the ancestors and gods in China. just an individual. The only one accepted is N. Q1a1 is also generally not accepted. It is a 3000-year-old branch, but they have to find someone in the ancient books to prove that they are related to us.
there is, probably, one more testimony to the invasion of central europe by the seima-turbino peoples. on bronze age settlements in saxony, burials are known of skulls and pieces of bones showing signs of cannibalism. unfortunately, the publication does not define more exactly to which period these finds relate [grimm, 1997]. in particular, many simi-lar finds have been made in slovakia, on settlements of the veterov, madjarovce and otomani cultures.they are known on unětice settlements very rarely.often, traces of scraping and incisions are visible on bones, and the cooking of body parts is not ex-cluded. sometimes there are pieces of skull. a cer-emonial mask found on the nitriansky hrádok set-tlement, made from the front of a skull, is especiallyinteresting [furmanek, jakab, 1997]. it should be noted that the distribution here of bronzes of seima-turbino type is dated exactly to this time and found on settlements of this group. the connection of suchrituals with these cultural groups can be demon-strated also by an example from south-western poland, where, at the end of phase br a2, the nowagerekwia group occurs, whose formation is usuallyconnected with the abovementioned cultural devel-opments in slovakia. at this time both fortified set-tlements and burials on settlements appeared here.very often there are separate human bones, espe-cially skulls and pieces of skull. it was uncharacter-istic of unětice culture and is subsequently absent from trzciniec culture...

[gorno-altaisk, russia—the siberian times reports that a 2,500-year-old grave from the pazyryk culture has been found in the altai mountains. the grave was looted in antiquity, but still contained the remains of an adult and a child or teenager, who had been buried with two small bronze mirrors, ceramics, gold foil, and wearing fur garments. their heads, however, had been removed and placed at their knees. nikita konstantinov of gorno-altaisk state university said the pazyryks often buried defeated enemies without their heads, since they made the skulls into bowls. “but this is obviously a different case,” he said. it is possible that the heads were detached when the grave was looted, but the rest of the skeletons remained undisturbed. konstantinov and his team will try to determine the age and sex of the skeletons, and study the cervical vertebrae to try to learn more about how the heads were removed. “we have no similar cases, so we need to investigate this one very thoroughly,” he said. to read more about the pazyryk culture, go to "iron age mummy." in the current issue]

American indian:

[a 3,000 year-old village discovered in central california has been found to contain an unusual set of burials — with more than a half dozen individuals buried without their heads, and nearly as many others buried intact, with an extra skull by their side. in two of the graves, the crowns of the severed skulls had even been fashioned into smooth, polished bowls.]

"Leather was one of the most important materials of nomadic Scythians, used for clothing, shoes, and quivers, amongst other objects. However, our knowledge regarding the specific animal species used in Scythian leather production remains limited. In this first systematic study, we used palaeoproteomics methods to analyse the species in 45 samples of leather and two fur objects recovered from 18 burials excavated at 14 different Scythian sites in southern Ukraine. Our results demonstrate that Scythians primarily used domesticated species such as sheep, goat, cattle, and horse for the production of leather, while the furs were made of wild animals such as fox, squirrel and feline species. The surprise discovery is the presence of two human skin samples, which for the first time provide direct evidence of the ancient Greek historian Herodotus’ claim that Scythians used the skin of their dead enemies to manufacture leather trophy items, such as quiver covers. We argue that leather manufacture is not incompatible with a nomadic lifestyle and that Scythians possessed sophisticated leather production technologies that ensured stable supply of this essential material."



Decapitation was an integral part of the complex ritual practices recorded in the palaeographic and archaeological records at the Late Shang (c. 1250–1050 BCE) site of Yinxu in Henan Province, China. Although representations of decapitation are often found in societies where the act was carried out, no clear evidence exists for Yinxu, where only a small number of human depictions have been uncovered to date. In this article, I use archaeological data from sacrificial contexts and material culture uncovered during excavations over the past 90 years to investigate the human head as Late Shang elite visual culture. I argue that the dramatic increase in decapitation at Yinxu necessitated the development of a ritually informed process for handling these remains that transformed them into elite objects, while simultaneously pacifying their potentially dangerous post-mortem agency. This research contributes to global comparative studies on the materiality of the human head."

Okunevo sky petroglyph page 188:

Ladakh sky :

The Brokpa Tribes of Aryan Valley, Ladakh:

"The ‘mascoids’ (Upper or left): The mascoid (mask-like human faces) engravings are attributed to the Okunoid culture. These cattle breeders spread and interacted over thousands of kilometers during the third and early second millennium BC. The example shown here from Sasoma (Nubra) resembles images found in Mugur-Sargol (Siberia). The other rounded figure, from Shara, is one of the biggest single piece carvings found in Ladakh, about 1.5m in length"

However, "Background: The Brokpas are an isolated tribal population of the Dah-Hanu villages of the Leh district of India. They speak Dardic, a sub-branch of the Indo-European language family, and are putatively identified as "pure Aryan," a hegemonic impression perpetuated by foreign tourism.Aim: To determine if the above is true by looking for an appreciable frequency of NRY-HG-R1a1(M17) signatures which are common to Indo-European language speakers of mainland India and elsewhere.Subjects and methods: We studied 75 random Brokpa males from the Dah-Hanu region, on the northern bank of the Indus river.Results: Interestingly, the Brokpa males possessed a high proportion of NRY-HG-L1a2(M357) (62.7%) that are found sporadically in India and her neighbourhood. A global analysis of this clade (present study, 214 of 3327 men from 63 populations; from the literature 56 of 873) suggested that they originated from southern India.Conclusion: The Y chromosomal studies suggest the Brokpa to be pre-Vedic settlers of the Himalayas, 9000 ybp, with an isolated evolution. The mtDNA profile shows a predominance of mtDNA HG A4 that must have arrived from outside the Indian subcontinent."

Macro-regional interconnections among ancient hunter-gatherers of the Cis-Baikal, Eastern Siberia

The presence of the Seima-Turbino phase is also evidenced by a find of ananthropomorhic figurine, which finds parallels in Rostovka and Galich hoard (Stefanov, 2004). Supplementary Information p138 below:






Anau culture: Compartmented seals of eagle, monkey, and goddess. Provenance: Turkmenistan or northeast Iran; early Bronze Age, c. 2200-1800 BC, bronze


Age of Anau seal

"The purpose of the Anau seal inscriptions is to worship the spring god, pray for flourishing plants and a bumper harvest. Therefore, it is meaningful to clarify the age of the seal.
The shape and incised symbols of the Anau seal are quite different from those of the Sumerian cylinder seals of about 5,300 years ago. However, similar shapes and symbols can be found on prehistoric Chinese seals and on those of the Shang and Zhou dynasties. Chinese seals have a long history. A stone seal unearthed from the Peiligang cultural site in Henan, dated to over 8,000 years ago, is engraved with the character “乙.” This is the earliest known example of a stone seal in China.

The Seima-Turbino Culture is an early Bronze Age culture in the Eurasian Steppes, existing between 4,200–1,800 years ago. More than ten socketed spearheads with single side hooks, the most iconic artifact of the Seima-Turbino Culture, have been found in Gansu, Shaanxi, Shanxi, and Henan provinces. The age of the Anau seal is close to the time when the Seima-Turbino spears expanded eastward. It suggests that as early as four or five thousand years ago, Eastern and Western cultures began to communicate with each other. It is possible that the Anau seal may be a precious cultural relic left in the Anau area by merchants or tribes who moved westward from the Central Plain 4,300 years ago."
I think 2nd script of Anau seal means " I" considering Armenian symbol below. The character in chinese seal, similar to the 2nd script of Anau seal, means 私 [= personal, private, or I, myself (in japanese) ]

Later the symbol for ”man, I, one” was developed to these:

["which are the praying men. And three symbols of AR (Sun God) arose: Lion, Eagle and Aris (Aries), all three begin in Armenian with letters “ar”. From that time “three” came to us as a sacred figure and sign “w” became the first letter of Armenian Alphabet (letter “a”). "] ---> ["Anu, (Akkadian), Sumerian An, Mesopotamian sky god and a member of the triad of deities completed by Enlil and Ea (Enki)."]

Armenian scholar thinks that their petroglyphs are connected to Nordic culture.:

1. seima turbino culture migrated to china

2. chinese character 王 means "king"

3. Axe represented king at chinese Shang dynasty:

"Paleophilologists tell people that in oracle bone inscriptions, the character "王" is a deformation of the characters "axe" and "yue". The so-called "king" means using armed force to defend his status as "king" and suppress rebels."

4. Seima turbino Axe (King or Lord) has three components of circle ouroboros (sun or snake) and triangle sunlight and diamond snake: Sun and snake(thunderbolt):


seima turbino ring pommel dagger:

sarmatian ring pommel sword:

Arthur’s legend mentions the existence of two “magical swords”. The one was the sword of Uther, Arthur’s father, which was nailed to a rock. Arthur was proclaimed king when he dragged it off the cliff, while the other candidates for the throne had failed. It is characteristic that the Sarmatians worshiped their main deity in the form of a sword nailed to earth or rock. The second “magic sword” of the legend is the famous Excalibur, which Arthur received from the “Lady of the Lake”.
The episode of Excalibur is almost identical to the reports of ‘magic swords’ in the saga of Batradz, a hero of the Ossetians of the Caucasus, and also in the episode of Krabat’s death which is included in a popular history of the modern Sorbs of Eastern Germany. The modern Ossetians are the last surviving Sarmatians, being descendants of Alans. They are divided among the Russian Federation and Georgia (Autonomous Republics of Northern and Southern Ossetia respectively). The Sorbs, a people of a few tens of thousands which is surrounded by millions of Germans, are Slavs but they bear a Sarmatian tribal name. "

[FONT=&quot]Dr. Kaveh Farrokh's blog[/FONT]

An individual with Sarmatian-related ancestry in Roman Britain:

"In the second century CE the Roman Empire had increasing contact with Sarmatians, nomadic Iranian speakers occupying an area stretching from the Pontic-Caspian steppe to the Carpathian mountains, both in the Caucasus and in the Danubian borders of the empire.
In 175 CE, following their defeat in the Marcomannic Wars, emperor Marcus Aurelius drafted Sarmatian cavalry into Roman legions and deployed 5,500 Sarmatian soldiers to Britain, as recorded by contemporary historian Cassius Dio.
Little is known about where the Sarmatian cavalry were stationed, and no individuals connected with this historically attested event have been identified to date, leaving its impact on Britain largely unknown. Here we document Caucasus- and Sarmatian-related ancestry in the whole genome of a Roman-period individual (126–228 calibrated [cal.] CE)—an outlier without traceable ancestry related to local populations in Britain—recovered from a farmstead site in present-day Cambridgeshire, UK. Stable isotopes support a life history of mobility during childhood. Although several scenarios are possible, the historical deployment of Sarmatians to Britain provides a parsimonious explanation for this individual’s extraordinary life history. Regardless of the factors behind his migrations, these results highlight how long-range mobility facilitated by the Roman Empire impacted provincial locations outside of urban centers."



- chinese script or character of (sky): 2nd one:


-america indian shaman (=sky):


"Anyway, chariots, socketed weapons of SeimaTurbino type, and tin casting technology were actively used by representatives of Early Andronovo and later Karasuk societies. These set of innovations rapidly spread to all contact areas, where steppe clans interacted with ancient sedentary civilizations, and contributed to formation of Turanian, Chinese, Balkanian, and Iranian channels of communication"

- Problem is too small people might migrate and barely genetic and linguistic impact upon farmers like mongol?
Lake Baikal Square Shoulders:

Exploring the Cave Rock Art of Siberian Trans-Baikal: Fertility, Shamanism, and Gender

Sarmatian Sqaure shoulders:

The celtic world of glauberg:
Anau seal:


chinese seal at Han dynasty^

- Armenia: Later the symbol for ”man, I, one” was developed to these:



"Czech archaeologists have announced a unique discovery. A team of experts from Brno have unearthed a bronze belt buckle from the early Middle Ages, depicting a snake devouring a frog-like creature. The find could shed more light on people’s spiritual life in the pre-Christian era, of which we know very little."


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