Is haplogroup T related to the Kurds, Azeri, Persians or Omani ?

Or T was present all over the Middle East and East Africa during the late Paleolithic, and Middle Eastern farmers brought new subclades of T to East Africa. The problem with hg T is that it is seriously understudied. Just have a look at the phylogenetic tree. It's considerably smaller than that of R1b-L21 subclades, even though T is 20,000 to 35,000 years old and spread over 3 continents, while R1b-L21 is barely 5000 years old and all tucked in Northwest Europe. If T was properly studied its number of subclades might well exceed all those of R1b. Until we get proper data it's almost impossible to determine the history of T.

Klyosov said that a lot of northern T could have mutated into R1a as there is only 9 mutations that is between ( seems a lot to me)
T and R1a
9 :2 =4,5 = 18,000 years ( at 4000 years per mutation change)
Klyosov, AA (2011) Haplotypes of R1b1a2-P312 and related subclades: origin and "ages" of most recent common ancestors. Proceedings of the Russian Academy of DNA Genealogy, v.4, No. 6, 1127-1195.
 
It's just funny nobody has answered my conclusions yet
 
Klyosov said that a lot of northern T could have mutated into R1a as there is only 9 mutations that is between ( seems a lot to me)
T and R1a
9 :2 =4,5 = 18,000 years ( at 4000 years per mutation change)
Klyosov, AA (2011) Haplotypes of R1b1a2-P312 and related subclades: origin and "ages" of most recent common ancestors. Proceedings of the Russian Academy of DNA Genealogy, v.4, No. 6, 1127-1195.

One haplogroup mutating into another one ? Now that's just silly, Sile (sorry, couldn't resist).
 

Well it looks like this question about T in Madagascar just answered itself. Madagascarian men are a composite of three populations:

1) Austronesian O1a2 and O2a1
2) Middle Eastern J1 and T, with a pinch of R1a and J2b for seasoning, and a lone E1b1b sample.
3) Black African B2a, E1b1a and E2b

Their maternal side is overwhelmingly Black African and Southeast Asian though. No Middle Eastern mtDNA.

Note that J1 and T (and the single E1b1b) were found together in Anteoni, where there was hardly any Black African Y-DNA. Black African lineages were found in Ampanabaka, where there was no E1b1b, J1 or T.

Interestingly R1a and J2b are found mostly in Antaloatra, and are completely absent from Anteoni. So they might not have come with the J1 and T1 migration, but probably much later. If medieval Omani had brought J1 and T1, they would already have had R1a and J2b with them too (and vice versa). Therefore, based on this data, it would seem that J1 and T1 reached Madagascar before the Indo-Europeans brought R1a and J2b to the Arabian peninsula during the Late Bronze Age.

J1 is thought to have migrated from the Fertile Crescent to East Africa, Yemen and Oman some 9000 years ago, with pre-pottery herders-hunters. T1 might well have accompanied it, since both are common in the Zagros region. If J1 and T1 reached Madagascar before the Iranian invasions of the Middle East, there is a good chance that they spread all the way to the Horn of Africa, then to Madagascar in one go. Given that female lineages in Madagascar are all L (except for the Southeast Asian ones), it appears that J1 and T Neolithic herders took local wives as they advanced. The same is supposed to have happened with R1b-V88 cattle herders from the Levant to the Sudan and the Sahel (Hausa and Fula people, who have higher percentages of R1b-V88 but only mtDNA L).

This is the best hint so far that African T1 originated in the Middle East and spread alongside J1 during the Early Neolithic, but that E1b1b was probably not part of this migration. This would imply that the original Sumerians could really have been an admixture of J1 and T.


Note that the Black African B2a, E1b1a and E2b are now all found at low frequencies in the Arabian peninsula. These would have been the slaves brought by the medieval Arabs from Africa.
 
I still disagree as the founding legends of these people clearly indicate they had Iranian, Omani and Saudi ancestry, the same groups where T and J1 are present.
 
This is the best hint so far that African T1 originated in the Middle East and spread alongside J1 during the Early Neolithic,

I still disagree as the founding legends of these people clearly indicate they had Iranian, Omani and Saudi ancestry, the same groups where T and J1 are present.
:banghead:
 
What does that mean LOL
 
@adamo,

So, its settled for you now !

Ydna T origins are northern Iran/south of the Caspian sea..................they are herder/hunters ..............finding women and breeding on the move ........which means, NO dynastic BIG ydna pockets
 
How do you know they were herder-hunters? Are you sure it originated in northern Iran? The highest concentrations are in the south. Weren't the Elamites heavy in T?
 
But other than that yeah; it's pretty much settled for me. It certainly has an Iranian presence according to the Wikipedia map stretching from Izeh to Kerman with the Shiraz region included ( a "high" of 10-15%). This isn't much but it certainly points us towards the possible point of origin as we know that it originated in the Middle East. What makes me doubt this hypothesis consistently though is the constant low values for T found in national-level studies of Iran (never passing 2-5%). Even studies on Iraq postulate that 5-13% of Iraqi men on a national level belong to T. Ethiopia scores 7% whereas Somalia has double that. Egypt has 6-16% and Jordan according to geno 2.0 has 15-20%; the highest frequencies in any single country. The Balearic Islands (15%) and Sicly (5-18%) can have interesting frequencies as well.
 
How do you know they were herder-hunters? Are you sure it originated in northern Iran? The highest concentrations are in the south. Weren't the Elamites heavy in T?

Marciano said so

Marciano stated zargos mountains

concentrations mean nothing for herder hunters

unsure on the elamites, a chance along with Uruk who where conquered by the Akkadians ( assyrians )


One reason some haplogroups dominate ...........they are a ruling class and have a large concubine. Their sons follow suit and have a large concubine............we still see this system in Zululand in the 19th century ........read.... ..A Washing of the Spears
 
Mmmmm....yeah; the Zagros mountains seem plausible as they stretch far into the Elamite region of western Iran. According to the Wikipedia map, the highest frequencies are in Elam, khuzestan, busher, fars, Kerman and hormozgan provinces of Iran.
 
wrong section.
 
Very interesting to note that when the Thomas Jefferson study was published (back in the K2 days) T was only found in more than 7% of males from Egypt, Oman, Somalia and Iraq, although info on the lineage was much more scarce as well.
 
So they postulate an origin on the southern Arabian peninsula 8,000 years ago, if you check out y-DNA T ftdna group clusters it would make sense lol
 

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