Nature Is it time for Americans to stop using their air conditioners?

[Duarte]

R-290 Facts

Name:	R-290
Name - Scientific:	Propane
Name (2):	HC-290
Name (3):	CARE-40
Name (4)	R290
Classification:	Hydrocarbon Refrigerant
Chemistry:	C3H8 or CH3CH2CH3
Status:	Active & Growing
Future:	Will Be Used All Over The World
Application:	Supermarkets, Gas Stations, Vending/Ice Machines
Application (2):	Refrigerated Transport, Industrial Refrigeration, and Much More
Replacement For:	CFCs, HCFCs, and now HFCs
Ozone Depletion Potential:	0
Global Warming Potential:	3.3
Global Warming Risk:	Very Low
Toxicity Levels:	A (No Toxicity Identified.)
Flammability	Class 3 - Highly Flammable Levels
Lubricant Required:	MO, AB, POE
Boiling Point:	−42.25 to −42.04 °C; −44.05 to −43.67 °F; 230.90 to 231.11 K
Critical Temperature:	96.7 °C or 206.06 °F
Critical Pressure:	4,248 kpa
Auto ignition Temperature:	470 °C (878 °F; 743 K)
Flash Point	−104 °C (−155 °F; 169 K)
Molar Mass:	44.097 g·mol−1
Density:	2.0098 kg/m3 (at 0 °C, 101.3 kPa)
Melting Point:	−187.7 °C; −305.8 °F; 85.5 K
Vapor Pressure:	853.16 kPa (at 21.1 °C (70.0 °F))
Manufacturers:	Various Including: Honeywell, Chemours, Arkema, Mexichem, Chinese, etc.
Manufacturing Facilities:	All Over Including: USA, Mexico, EU, China, and others.
Form:	Gas
Color:	Colorless gas
Odor:	Odorless
EPA Certification Required:	No
Require Certification to Purchase?	No
Cylinder Color:	Unknown
Cylinder Sizes:	1 lb, 20 lb, 100 lb, 200 lb, 420 lb.
Purchasing:	CLICK FOR A QUOTE! R-600a - The Facts Name: R-600a Name - Scientific: Isobutane Name (2): HC-600a Name (3): Care-10 Name (4) R600a Classification: Hydrocarbon Refrigerant Chemistry: C4H10 or CH(CH3)2CH3 Status: Active & Growing Future: Will Be Used All Over The World Application: Home Refrigerators & Freezers Application (2): Commercial Refrigerators & Freezers Application (3): Commercial Vending Machines & Plug-Ins Application (4): Industrial Refrigeration Application (5): Medium, High, &Very High Temperature Replacement For: CFCs, HCFCs, and now HFCs Ozone Depletion Potential: 0 Global Warming Potential: 3 Global Warming Risk: Very Low Toxicity Levels: A (No Toxicity Identified.) Flammability Class 3 - Highly Flammable Levels Lubricant Required: MO, AB, POE Boiling Point: −11.7 °C (10.9 °F; 261.4 K) Critical Temperature: 134.7 °C or 274.46 °F Critical Pressure: 3,640 kpa Auto ignition Temperature: 460 °C (860 °F; 733 K) Flash Point −83 °C (−117 °F; 190 K) Molar Mass: 58.124 g·mol−1 Density: 2.51 kg/m3 (at 15 °C, 100 kPa) Density (2): 563 kg/m3 (at 15 °C, boiling liquid) Melting Point: −159.42 °C (−254.96 °F; 113.73 K) Vapor Pressure: 3.1 atm (310 kPa) (at 21 °C (294 K; 70 °F)) Manufacturers: Various Including: Honeywell, Chemours, Arkema, Mexichem, Chinese, etc. Manufacturing Facilities: All Over Including: USA, Mexico, EU, China, and others. Form: Gas Color: Colorless gas Odor: Odorless EPA Certification Required: No Require Certification to Purchase? No Cylinder Color: Unknown Cylinder Sizes: 1 lb, 20 lb, 100 lb, 200 lb, 420 lb. Purchasing: CLICK FOR A QUOTE! I think that is better to prevent something like that :sad-2:

EDIT: A mixture of propane + isobutane bottled in 13kg canisters is known in Brazil as Liquefied Petroleum Gas or, simply, cooking gas. This tope of gas cylinder is the most used by the small domestic consumer of kitchen gas in Brazil.

 

[Yetos]

The truth and myths about methan-io

this a termite nest,
have you any idea how much produces?
about 2-3 % of global methane emission is by termites.
does that mean we have to exterminate termites? in the name of global warming?

Natural gas is produced by bacteria and microwolrd, and usually traped under rock,
do we have any idea of how much is not traped, but goes straight to atmosphaere?
only human wastes from a city that are buried or through waste water released etc are about 1/3 of the city demanded power.
these are beans

have we any idea of the methane produced in our stomachs?
and by our domestic animals like pigs cows sheeps goats etc?

So I wonder what is better a CO2 gas
or a CH4 ->CH3 +H gas?

and how this energy would be 'controled'

 

[bigsnake49]

The truth and myths about methan-io

this a termite nest,
have you any idea how much produces?
about 2-3 % of global methane emission is by termites.
does that mean we have to exterminate termites? in the name of global warming?

Natural gas is produced by bacteria and microwolrd, and usually traped under rock,
do we have any idea of how much is not traped, but goes straight to atmosphaere?
only human wastes from a city that are buried or through waste water released etc are about 1/3 of the city demands
these are beans

have we any idea of the methane produced in our stomachs?
and by our domestic animals like pigs cows sheeps goats etc?

So I wonder what is better a CO2 gas
or a CH4 ->CH3 +H gas?

and how this energy would be 'controled'

No more pork or beef steaks for you (brizoles), Yetos! No more bean soup(fasolada) for you either.

 

[Duarte]

But your AC still uses the bad R410A.

Fujitsu's figures completely miss the only two refrigerants that are climate-friendly: R290 and R600A. From this year these are the only types allowed in the European union. Even R32 is banned.

Refrigerant	Global Warming Potential	Ozone Depletion Potential
R 22	1810	Medium
R 410A	2088	Nil
R 32	675	Nil
R 134A	1430	Nil
R 290	3	Nil
R 600A	3	Nil

From not this year, but from 2025:

REGULATION (EU) No 517/2014 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 16 April 2014
on fluorinated greenhouse gases and repealing Regulation (EC) No 842/2006(Text with EEA relevance)​

(...)

CHAPTER III
PLACING ON THE MARKET AND CONTROL OF USE

Article 11
Restrictions on the placing on the market​

1. The placing on the market of products and equipment listed in Annex III, with an exemption for military equipment, shall be prohibited from the date specified in that Annex, differentiating, where applicable, according to the type or global warming potential of the fluorinated greenhouse gas contained.(...)

ANNEX III
PLACING ON THE MARKET PROHIBITIONS REFERRED TO IN ARTICLE 11(1)​

Products and equipmentWhere relevant, the GWP of mixtures containing fluorinated greenhouse gases shall be calculated in accordance with Annex IV, as provided for in point 6 of Article 2​	Date of prohibition​
1. Non-refillable containers for fluorinated greenhouse gases used to service, maintain or fill refrigeration, air-conditioning or heat-pump equipment, fire protection systems or switchgear, or for use as solvents	4 July 2007
2. Non-confined direct evaporation systems that contain HFCs and PFCs as refrigerants	4 July 2007
3. Fire protection equipment	that contain PFCs	4 July 2007
that contain HFC-23	1 January 2016
4. Windows for domestic use that contain fluorinated greenhouse gases	4 July 2007
5. Other windows that contain fluorinated greenhouse gases	4 July 2008
6. Footwear that contains fluorinated greenhouse gases	4 July 2006
7. Tyres that contain fluorinated greenhouse gases	4 July 2007
8. One-component foams, except when required to meet national safety standards, that contain fluorinated greenhouse gases with GWP of 150 or more	4 July 2008
9. Aerosol generators marketed and intended for sale to the general public for entertainment and decorative purposes, as listed in point 40 of Annex XVII to Regulation (EC) No 1907/2006, and signal horns, that contain HFCs with GWP of 150 or more	4 July 2009
10. Domestic refrigerators and freezers that contain HFCs with GWP of 150 or more	1 January 2015
11. Refrigerators and freezers for commercial use (hermetically sealed equipment)	that contain HFCs with GWP of 2 500 or more​	1 January 2020
that contain HFCs with GWP of 150 or more	1 January 2022
12. Stationary refrigeration equipment, that contains, or whose functioning relies upon, HFCs with GWP of 2 500 or more except equipment intended for application designed to cool products to temperatures below – 50 °C	1 January 2020
13. Multipack centralised refrigeration systems for commercial use with a rated capacity of 40 kW or more that contain, or whose functioning relies upon, fluorinated greenhouse gases with GWP of 150 or more, except in the primary refrigerant circuit of cascade systems where fluorinated greenhouse gases with a GWP of less than 1 500 may be used	1 January 2022
14. Movable room air-conditioning equipment (hermetically sealed equipment which is movable between rooms by the end user) that contain HFCs with GWP of 150 or more	1 January 2020
15. Single split air-conditioning systems containing less than 3 kg of fluorinated greenhouse gases, that contain, or whose functioning relies upon, fluorinated greenhouse gases with GWP of 750 or more	1 January 2025
16. Foams that contain HFCs with GWP of 150 or more except when required to meet national safety standards	Extruded polystyrene (XPS)	1 January 2020
Other foams	1 January 2023
17. Technical aerosols that contain HFCs with GWP of 150 or more, except when required to meet national safety standards or when used for medical applications	1 January 2018

Source: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2014.150.01.0195.01.ENG

​

Edit: ...and there is not, yet, restrictions to R32 because its GWP < 750 , i.e, 675. Lucky of CEO of the Fujitsu General

​

 

[Duarte]

Examples of how complex are the relationships between energy production and storage technologies with the safety of energy consumers and producers and also with the environment. The planet is a closed system.

https://ec.europa.eu/environment/in...towards_the_battery_of_the_future_FB20_en.pdf

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lithium-batteries-environment-impact

 

[nordicwarrior]

What does productivity have anything to do energy consumption? In developed countries, lower energy consumption is associated with more advanced technologies. Anyway, most European countries have a higher productivity than the USA according to the latest OECD data.



Why do you think that protecting the ozone layer is more important that fighting global warming? That was an important issue in the 1980's, but measures have been taken and the holes in the ozone layer have since healed.

Are we talking about the European Union or individual countries? It seems to flip flop. The U.S. is the most productive economic nation in the world. It's not even close. China is number two, but they are catching up to us.

If we want to divide Europe by country to cherry-pick data points, I could easily divide the U.S. by state as a counter. For example, I'll put California's per capita productivity against any nation on Earth.

There are four nations on the planet that are both net exporters of energy and net exporters of food.

The U.S. is one of the four.

 

[Yetos]

No more pork or beef steaks for you (brizoles), Yetos! No more bean soup(fasolada) for you either.

Indeed, until we find a method to gather and control this energy,



SAVE THE PLANET
DON'T EAT BEANS

 

[Maciamo]

Are we talking about the European Union or individual countries? It seems to flip flop. The U.S. is the most productive economic nation in the world. It's not even close. China is number two, but they are catching up to us.

If we want to divide Europe by country to cherry-pick data points, I could easily divide the U.S. by state as a counter. For example, I'll put California's per capita productivity against any nation on Earth.

There are four nations on the planet that are both net exporters of energy and net exporters of food.

The U.S. is one of the four.

You have no idea what productivity means, do you? You confuse productivity and GDP. Productivity is is a ration of GDP over a time period, for instance the GDP per hour worked. Countries where people work long hours, like the USA or Japan, tend to have lower productivity than those that work short hours and take lots of holidays to produce the same wealth. It may seem counter-intuitive, but if you compare 2 countries with equal GDP per capita, the country with higher unemployment is the more productive (as less workers produce the same GDP).

If you had checked the OECD data I linked you could have answered your own question about the productivity in the EU vs individual countries. The GDP per hour worked in 2018 in the EU was 108.2 USD, while in the USA it was 104.7 USD.

China's GDP per hour worked is very low, around 10 USD.

I have had enough of people like you who have no idea what they are talking about. I am going to get rid of people who keep wasting my time with inanities.

 

[capita]

Air conditioners can contribute to the development of sick building syndrome in certain rooms and in a variety of conditions. People in an infected room may experience dizziness, dry throat, itchy eyes, and nausea.


Studies conducted by the Journal of Occupational and Environmental Medicine have found that forced air conditioning with split systems, window and central air conditioning, much more often provokes symptomatic health problems, which is rare in natural ventilation of buildings.

 

[Maciamo]

An Irish company (Exergyn) has come up with a new airconditioning system completely devoid of greenhouse gases. It is based on a substance called a shape-memory alloy (SMAs). The new AC is not just more eco-friendly but also 30-40% cheaper to run. Sounds revolutionary.

The Economist: A new, green air-conditioning system manages without nasty gases

 

[nick6899]

they should use in a more normal way, it's an evident culture problem

 

[TheProbga90x]

Yep its the right time.

 

[hadrian]

Spain has restricted cooling to 27 C and heating to 19 C.

Climate change has created drought, with river levels falling. There is an issue with low river flows where power plants need to turn down to avoid heat pollution creating a fish kill in the cooling water outlets.

 

[Twilight]

An Irish company (Exergyn) has come up with a new airconditioning system completely devoid of greenhouse gases. It is based on a substance called a shape-memory alloy (SMAs). The new AC is not just more eco-friendly but also 30-40% cheaper to run. Sounds revolutionary.

The Economist: A new, green air-conditioning system manages without nasty gases

Awesome!!
Going to be honest with you, just reading the different Moderators arguing about air-conditioning just made me get out the popcorn.
Yeah, the big problem with every American ditching air-conditioning Willy-nilly is that it would mean laying off hundreds of people from the workforce. But I?m glad that Ireland is taking the initiative and manufacturing an eco-friendly air-conditioner.

 

[Angela]

I was one of them, I know.

Let me tell you, with the temperatures and the humidity this summer, they'd have had to pry the control out of my cold, dead hands.

I did, today, turn it off and opened all the windows. Thank-God for the coming of autumn! ​

 

[Duarte]

With the possible return of intensive use of coal due to the energy crisis in Europe, the use of ecologically correct refrigerants in air conditioners seems to have become a minor problem Will we will see the return of smog clouds: A mix of soot and CO2, sulfur oxide, nitrogen oxides, volatile organic compounds. In the face of coal, even oil looks clean….

 

[Twilight]

I was one of them, I know.

Let me tell you, with the temperatures and the humidity this summer, they'd have had to pry the control out of my cold, dead hands.

I did, today, turn it off and opened all the windows. Thank-God for the coming of autumn! ​

This picture taken from my house. This is the Northern Puget Sound looking strait at the Cascade Mountains. The sea is so close to the Cascade Mountain ranges that the two tend to keep Western Washington cool in the summer and the Mountains block out almost all of the snowstorms in the winter.
We have an air conditioner but the sea breeze tends yo work better; as long as there is a bug net in the windows.
But I suppose with West Virginia, you?d need other methods to cool off.

 

[Angela]

Live on Long Island; we got socked with a really, really hot summer. I love the sun, but I can't take the temperatures in the upper 80s and 90s with high humidity.

I swear it's genetics. I'm my father's daughter where this is concerned. I get fried by the sun no matter how much sun screen I wear, and I'm really prone to heat stroke. I don't think I perspire enough. Even in the shade I can't take the heat no matter how much I drink. I have to go sit in the air conditioning.

My mother was the opposite. She would bask in the sun for hours like a lizard. She loved it. My husband and both my children are the same. I'm the one always complaining and running indoors.

 

[hadrian]

With the possible return of intensive use of coal due to the energy crisis in Europe, the use of ecologically correct refrigerants in air conditioners seems to have become a minor problem Will we will see the return of smog clouds: A mix of soot and CO2, sulfur oxide, nitrogen oxides, volatile organic compounds. In the face of coal, even oil looks clean….

There is a bunch of nuclear, solar and wind in Europe. You can see a live map. Poland is mostly coal.
app.electricitymaps.com

The US President Trump warned Germany in 2018 that their reliance on Russian gas from Gazprom would make them dependent on Russia and they laughed at him at the time. Now Germans are stocking up on firewood.