J-L70 - a much needed update

[Granzon]

I saw a post on GenArchivist regarding this and saw the G25 cords.

It seems that the J2a-L70 and related Y-DNA samples are as follows:

1. I29109 (J2a-L70)
2. I24471 (J2a-L70)
3. I22032 (J2a-L70)
4. S47786 (J2a-L70 > J2a-Z423 > J2a-Z435 ... J2a-S23155) (I assume this is the path)
5. n=31 (J2a-L70 > J2a-Z423 > J2a-Z435 > J2a-CTS3601 > J2a-PF5456)

Below are the G25 of the samples plotted onto Vahaduo G25 map.

I added some G25 samples from populations that I had though may cluster near the J2a-L70s and related on the bottom-left of the G25 PCA.

Zoom in of above.

It's interesting to see that J2a-L70 seems to plot around modern Southern-Italians, Greek-Islanders, Maltese and Mixed-Jewish. J2a-S23155 plots near Byzantines & J2a-PF5456 appears to plot largely around Southern-Italians/Greek-Islanders & Byzantines with some clustering with Celts/Germans/Slavs (I'm assuming were Imperial Era Roman soldiery that settled in Northern/Western/Central Europe and integrated with the natives of those regions.

It seems that the lines that branch off of J2a-L70 are associated with Imperial-Era Roman soldiery and Byzantines? I'm curious what they were BEFORE Imperial-Era Rome.

Any thoughts?

 

[Juan.delajara]

I saw a post on GenArchivist regarding this and saw the G25 cords.

It seems that the J2a-L70 and related Y-DNA samples are as follows:

1. I29109 (J2a-L70)
2. I24471 (J2a-L70)
3. I22032 (J2a-L70)
4. S47786 (J2a-L70 > J2a-Z423 > J2a-Z435 ... J2a-S23155) (I assume this is the path)
5. n=31 (J2a-L70 > J2a-Z423 > J2a-Z435 > J2a-CTS3601 > J2a-PF5456)

Below are the G25 of the samples plotted onto Vahaduo G25 map.
View attachment 19378

I added some G25 samples from populations that I had though may cluster near the J2a-L70s and related on the bottom-left of the G25 PCA.
View attachment 19379

Zoom in of above.
View attachment 19380

It's interesting to see that J2a-L70 seems to plot around modern Southern-Italians, Greek-Islanders, Maltese and Mixed-Jewish. J2a-S23155 plots near Byzantines & J2a-PF5456 appears to plot largely around Southern-Italians/Greek-Islanders & Byzantines with some clustering with Celts/Germans/Slavs (I'm assuming were Imperial Era Roman soldiery that settled in Northern/Western/Central Europe and integrated with the natives of those regions.

This is just speculation...
Can we speculate which culture/civilization that the J2a-L70 male line is associated with? I was hoping they would cluster with Minoans or Aegean Greeks so we could drawn a conclusion already. It seems that the lines that branch off of J2a-L70 are associated with Imperial-Era Roman soldiery and Byzantines? I'm curious what they were BEFORE Imperial-Era Rome.

Even when I add an ancient sample from Roman limes from J2a-2177 (CGG107753) which is in the path of my line J2a-L70 > J2a-Z423 > J2a-Z435 > J-Z2177 > J2a-Z28698, it clusters around Byzantine samples.

View attachment 19382

Any thoughts?

Thanks Granzon. I also made a quick analysis of the JL70's samples. We urgently need to know more details regarding the origin and age of the samples, to compare properly their Autosomal, and draw further conclusions, considering the geographical area of their burial and historical/archeological context. One of the JL70 should be the Myceanean sample from southern Peloponnese, it seems with a more Anatolic mixture than previous samples. One comment, J-S23155 is my clade and is under J-PF5456.

 

[Abaris]

Can someone help me understand a bit about J2a-2177? I am wondering how this male line came to South-Eastern Europe and how did it enter into the Albanian ethnicity? From my understanding, my male line has been living in Mat for several generations before settling in Diber around the 1800s. My understanding from oral history is that the male line used to be Orthodox Christian and then something happened and they became Bektashi. I carried out a 23andMe on the eldest male in my line (born ~1950s) and got the following. It doesn't appear that he has any non-Albanian recent ancestors. The results showed the following:

European 100%
Greek & Balkan 100%
"Kosovar & Northern Albanian" 100%

Then it says the closest matches are:

1. Shkodër Lowlands and the Albanian Alps
2. Southern Dinaric Alps

Y-DNA is J2-L70 (FTDNA says J-Z2177) & MtDNA is H12.

Apparently, 23andMe goes back to 8+ generations and it says that this male has been 100% Kosovar & Northern Albanian up to 1690. When I look at DNA Relatives matches, I see that they're mostly Albanian followed by equal amounts North Macedonian/Greek, then Kosovo and small amounts of Americans/Serbian/Turkey.
What is this J2a-2177? When did it enter amongst Albanians? I see that J2a is not really a primary male line in the Albanians nor is it really related to any Paleo-Balkan/European populations compared to other haplogroups. Is J2a-Z2177 amongst Albanians from Turkish/Ottomans or some other source?