J-m67

[qh777]

According to 23andme that's my Y-haplogroup. Anyone have any additional information on it? It's probably not boiled down enough but is it carried by Armenians,Phoenicians,Greeks,South Italy?

 

[qh777]

In addition, I'd like to know if it's referred to as J2a1b or J2a4b? J-M172 is also known as J2 right? Correct me if I'm wrong but it goes like this J-M304 > J-M172(J2) > J-M67(J2a1b,J2a4b)?

 

[J Man]

In addition, I'd like to know if it's referred to as J2a1b or J2a4b? J-M172 is also known as J2 right? Correct me if I'm wrong but it goes like this J-M304 > J-M172(J2) > J-M67(J2a1b,J2a4b)?

Where do your paternal line ancestora come from?

Sent from my SM-A536W using Tapatalk

 

[qh777]

Belgium if you strictly mean my paternal. My Fathers side are Belgian,English,German,Irish,possibly Scottish. That’s from looking at the family tree and surnames going back to the mid to late 1800s from Ancestry and using findagrave.

 

[EngelhornRon]

Belgium if you strictly mean my paternal. My Fathers side are Belgian,English,German,Irish,possibly Scottish. That’s from looking at the family tree and surnames going back to the mid to late 1800s from Ancestry and using findagrave.

Hmmn, I'm J2a from Germany near Mainz, not many J2a's in Belgium or Germany, most likely arrived with Romans.

 

[qh777]

Hmmn, I'm J2a from Germany near Mainz, not many J2a's in Belgium or Germany, most likely arrived with Romans.

That’s what I’ve read in a couple of places. Especially in northwestern Europe j2 is speculated to come from Roman expansion. I think on 23&me the site mentioned that J2 is most common in southern Italy and Greece. I’m still thinking about doing the big y test ftdna offers. It’s quite expensive.

 

[qh777]

Didn't expect this but after merging 4 of my raw dna files on dnagenics it gave a me access to some other paid reports for free.

 

[j-m67-B]

Hi! Please consider taking at least ftdna 37 if you don’t want to take big-y straightforwardly (even now, in sale, it’s quite expensive, but worth it). it will give you a far more refined haplogroup and perhaps lots of hints/matches with which to move forward. I’m also j-m67 at 23&me and my mrca was born in north italy. depending on your results on ftdna maybe we are on the same boat.

 

[j-m67-B]

additionaly, at ftdna you have at least 2 specific projects of interest to j-m67 members (j-m172 and j-m67 itself). please take a look at them

 

[qh777]

DNAGenics updated the long notation of my Y-haplogroup to J2a1a1a2b2.

A quick google search yielded a link to ftdna:

So it may very well be likely that my MRCA was from north Italy. I think this holiday season I'll go ahead and buy the Big-Y test and find out for sure.

 

[j-m67-B]

Great! Depending on what comes up from your results -- the table above, you'll quickly notice, is too wide chronologically -- maybe we'll have a lot to talk, so feel free to ask if I can help you.

 

[qh777]

I'm going to wait closer to late November/December and hope for a sale. Regardless, I care enough about it.

 

[j-m67-B]

Best thing to do indeed BTW, if you don't mind where exactly is your MRPA from? I mean: are he from North Italy or surroundings like Austria, France, or Switzerland? If you prefer we can continue through private messages.

 

[qh777]

I purchased the Big-Y test from FamilyTreeDNA. My sample has been received and currently being processed. Any guesses on what it will reveal?

ChatGPT gives me 5 likely scenarios:

1.​

• During the height of the Roman Empire, Roman soldiers, administrators, and settlers from the Mediterranean basin (Italy, Greece, and beyond) carried J2 haplotypes northward.
• Belgium, as part of the Roman province of Gallia Belgica, likely saw an influx of Roman settlers, merchants, or soldiers with Mediterranean genetic markers like J2.

2.​

• Though less direct, Greek colonies and cultural influence in the Western Mediterranean (e.g., Massalia/Marseille) spread Greek genes and culture into France, which could have trickled into Belgium over time through migrations or trade networks.
• This would align with J2's prominence in Greek and Italic populations.

3.​

• During the Crusades, Western Europeans came into contact with the Levant, where J2 is prevalent. This could have led to gene flow back into Europe as returning crusaders intermarried or interacted with Near Eastern populations.
• Trade routes (e.g., Venice and Genoa) also acted as conduits for genetic exchange during the medieval period.

4.​

• As Mediterranean traders, the Phoenicians and their Carthaginian successors carried J2 haplogroups widely across the Mediterranean. Though their direct influence in Belgium would have been minimal, their trade and cultural interactions could have introduced J2 lineages into populations that later moved north.

5.​

• During various periods, the Roman Empire and other Mediterranean powers relied on mercenaries or slaves from the Eastern Mediterranean, where J2 was common. These individuals could have contributed to the genetic makeup of populations in Roman-occupied areas, including Belgium.

 

[j-m67-B]

Humm... it's hard to even guess - we must wait for the results. J-M67 comprehends thousands of years ago and a lot of sub-sub-sub-etc clades. As for the scenarios chatgpt has shown, all of them are too vague and could perfectly describe both J-M172 (or even groups pretty further back in time) and it's subclade J-M67, so they are not much useful...

 

[qh777]

​

More from ChatGPT:​

1. J2 and the Bronze Age​

• J2a Lineages:
  
  • The broader J2a haplogroup is closely tied to the expansion of early agricultural societies during the Neolithic (~10,000–6,000 BCE), particularly in the Fertile Crescent (modern-day Turkey, Levant, Mesopotamia).
  • By the Bronze Age (~3000–1200 BCE), J2a lineages spread widely through the Eastern Mediterranean, Anatolia, and parts of Europe, often associated with the rise of advanced civilizations.
• J2a1a Subclades:
  
  • Subclades like J2a1a1a2b likely represent branches that formed during the Bronze Age, coinciding with major societal transformations like urbanization, trade, and metallurgy.

---

2. Characteristics of J2a1a1a2b​

• Mutation Dating:
  
  • The defining mutations in J2a1a1a2b likely arose 4,000–5,000 years ago, placing it firmly in the Bronze Age timeframe.
  • This period corresponds to the flourishing of Bronze Age civilizations such as:
    • The Minoans of Crete.
    • The Mycenaeans of mainland Greece.
    • The Hittites in Anatolia.
    • Mesopotamian and Levantine cultures like the Akkadians and Canaanites.
• Geographic Spread:
  
  • J2a1a1a2b is distributed in regions historically connected to trade networks of the Eastern Mediterranean, including Anatolia, Greece, and the Levant, as well as later expansions into Europe.

---

3. Connections to the Bronze Age​

• Trade and Migration:
  • The Bronze Age saw extensive trade networks connecting the Near East, Mediterranean, and Europe. J2a1a1a2b carriers could have been part of these networks, spreading their lineage across these regions.
• Cultural Associations:
  • J2a is associated with early advanced societies, particularly those in the Eastern Mediterranean, which played pivotal roles in Bronze Age technological and cultural developments.

---

4. What This Means for Your Lineage​

• Bronze Age Origin:
  
  • Your J2a1a1a2b lineage likely originated among populations connected to Bronze Age civilizations in the Eastern Mediterranean or Anatolia.
• Introduction to Europe:
  
  • The subclade may have reached Belgium or your ancestral region during later historical periods:
    • Roman expansion brought Mediterranean lineages like J2a into northern Europe.
    • Phoenician trade or Greek colonization could have introduced earlier Mediterranean lineages to Europe during the Bronze Age.

---

Conclusion​

Yes, the J2a1a1a2b notation is consistent with a Bronze Age origin, with its likely roots in advanced Eastern Mediterranean or Anatolian societies. Its presence in Belgium suggests later migration, potentially during the Roman period or through Medieval trade networks, reflecting the far-reaching influence of Bronze Age lineages in shaping modern European populations.

With the longer notation I gave it, ChatGPT thinks at that level it arose around the Bronze Age.

 

[qh777]

Since I did the Big Y-700, it makes me wonder if FtDNA would show my Y results in the next week or couple weeks. And then (ouch) 10 weeks later show the further mutations and other data.

 

[qh777]

The Big Y part isn't completed but they have released some of my results up to 12 markers.

 

[qh777]

There is a guy from Italy that I match as well with a time of most recent common ancestry dating back to around 1600
I'll leave out his name for privacy