J2b1-M205 introduced to Eupedia

No problem, next im gonna take bigY, im just waiting price to drop a bit : )
Also if Albeshri haven't yet uploaded to Yfull, and if he is not this Qatar sample i might also message him to do so.
 
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No problem, next im gonna take bigY, im just waiting price to drop a bit : )
Also if Albeshri haven't yet uploaded to Yfull, and if he is not this Qatar sample i might also message him to do so.


hello Dema

Regarding about Albsheri, he uploaded his bigY result at YFULL.


you can see him under the branch J-Y22075
 
one more thing

there is sample has the same cluster with Albsheri

he is waiting his Big Y result

he is from Qatar too

for more information don't feel hesitate to ask me

my regards
 
Sure Mercurial, same here. I barely follow any genetic threads lately, but from time to time i check some forums and eventually i look at Yfull to see is there any movements on a J2b1 section. Let me know when you get your full results we can compare each other but i should have around 1000 years distance from most samples in our group.

As Trojet mentioned earlier on Foleja, with release of new version of Yfull (v6.01) there have been some changes. We have been finally correctly placed on their phylogenetic tree. We are now CTS1969+ and PH4306+ same as on Chris tree from J2


I have a simple query

I see there are many samples of j2b1 haplogroup in Balkans and because I do not know very well in your tribes and community in the Balkans, do you have any heritage that says you are from Kinda?

I will be glad to get the answer to my query
 
hello DemaRegarding about Albsheri, he uploaded his bigY result at YFULL.you can see him under the branch J-Y22075
Hello Hapologroup_king, best regards! Very good info! I have actually send him message over Ysearch before, as he is one of our distant matches from direction of Levant. So i asked him to upload to Yfull if that is possible, but i got a error message back and i am not sure did message went thru. However, its very good to hear that he has uploaded to Yfull and that he is confirmed Y22075/PH4306+, so same as most of Balkan samples : )

This was important for Balkan branch: J2b1>Y22075>Y22066, to achieve a link with other Y22075+ samples to try to find more about our distant origin.

So far we have Albeshri from Qatar and one more sample from Palestine. In future i expect more countries to join up, like Lebanon, Cyprus,Iran, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Jordan,,
Also there is somewhat connection with French J2b1 samples, so potentially that could also be some brother line expansion from Levant to territory of France.



one more thing

there is sample has the same cluster with Albsheri

he is waiting his Big Y result

he is from Qatar too

for more information don't feel hesitate to ask me

my regards

Very good, so we are getting another sample from Qatar who is PH4306+.


I have a simple query

I see there are many samples of j2b1 haplogroup in Balkans and because I do not know very well in your tribes and community in the Balkans, do you have any heritage that says you are from Kinda?

I will be glad to get the answer to my query


Not really, it is somewhat connected with one old Vlach tribe - Krici. But no one really knows what language these "Vlachs" spoken prior to their Latinization/Hellenization or even after it.
Only thing that is somewhat known about their language is that it was not Slavic. Everything is very mysterious.
What is Kinda? Is it this? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindah
 
Hello

Please have you got more explainations about that :

"Also there is somewhat connection with French J2b1 samples, so potentially that could also be some brother line expansion from Levant to territory of France."

 
I wanna add to the "Greek" origin narrative that is spoken of in my village and family. It could be simply that they used to call everyone that's Byzantine a Greek back then, so when my forebears moved into Europe, it could have stuck. Anyway, it's also not unheard of the fact that there were Greek colonies in Levant and especially Anatolia (assimilation might have happened). Just a few thoughts : ]
 
The Byzantine Empire ruled the Levant for a long time to rule out that there were Tribs of the Levant in brackets (Arab) migrated to Europe
 
Hi everyone. I'm from Venice zone, Veneto, Italy, and I'm J-M205.
Here in italy this aplogroup is REALLY uncommon. Venice history is connected to the balkan zone as much as Greece. We have some Byzantine heritage, but it's only about other clades of j1 and j2. The M-205 is really rare. I think that my paternal line comes from Istria or the Balkan adriatic thanks to the Republic of Venice (my autosomals has Balkan, Eastern Euro and East med in significant percentage).

Don't know if this can help your research. I'm very ignorant about genetic and I'm trying to figure out from where my line comes from.

Sorry for bad english
 
Also, my family has no connection with sicily or southern italy.
 
Hi everyone. I'm from Venice zone, Veneto, Italy, and I'm J-M205.
Here in italy this aplogroup is REALLY uncommon. Venice history is connected to the balkan zone as much as Greece. We have some Byzantine heritage, but it's only about other clades of j1 and j2. The M-205 is really rare. I think that my paternal line comes from Istria or the Balkan adriatic thanks to the Republic of Venice (my autosomals has Balkan, Eastern Euro and East med in significant percentage).

Don't know if this can help your research. I'm very ignorant about genetic and I'm trying to figure out from where my line comes from.

Sorry for bad english

Hi Arnguth, welcome to Eupedia.

I've met a couple of Serbians who are J-M205.

The J-M205 Yfull tree

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-M205/

Some maps that could help you.


J_M205.gif


EuWSbA0.jpg


J2b_M205.jpg


 
Hi Arnguth, welcome to Eupedia.I've met a couple of Serbians who are J-M205.
thanks!Sorry for my ignorance. From the link it seems that every J-m205 around Europe is from a different clade? Does it mean that the italians J m205 have another origin and common ancestor, not the same of the serbs ?
 
Hi everyone. I'm from Venice zone, Veneto, Italy, and I'm J-M205.
Here in italy this aplogroup is REALLY uncommon. Venice history is connected to the balkan zone as much as Greece. We have some Byzantine heritage, but it's only about other clades of j1 and j2. The M-205 is really rare. I think that my paternal line comes from Istria or the Balkan adriatic thanks to the Republic of Venice (my autosomals has Balkan, Eastern Euro and East med in significant percentage).

Don't know if this can help your research. I'm very ignorant about genetic and I'm trying to figure out from where my line comes from.

Sorry for bad english

Hi Arnguth, welcome to Eupedia.

Before we can find out the history of your line, what test did you take? Was it National Geographic or Living DNA? You should transfer your results to ftdna and get the Y37 test to see under which subclade of M205 you cluster with, and from there pursue to either test for specific snps or buy BigY which is expensive but is worth it.

The maps and website that Pax Augusta sent to you can be very helpful. Yfull has all the splits and snps under J2b-M205.

I will send you the link to Ftdna's J-M172 project

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/J2-M172?iframe=yresults

Where you can see others who have tested positive for J2b-M205.

It looks like you are the first from region of Veneto to be positive for this subclade, which is probably due to sample bias not enough people from Veneto who tested on these public dna companies.

As you wrote that you think that perhaps your direct paternal ancestry is from Istria it would increase your chances of being under J-Y22059 which is the Balkan branch of J-M205, the first map that Pax sent correlates with J-Y22059, and you can see that J-Y22059 is around 2-3% in Istria which would make a fairly common subclade in the area. At the moment the history of J-Y22059 remains unknown and is a fairly young branch with the ancestor of this branch living around 1100 AD or 900 ybp (years before present).

As for J2b-M205 in general has been found in 4 ancient samples, 1 in Bronze Age Jordan, 1 in Bronze Age Lebanon, 2 from Iron Age Egypt (1 actually in Egypt and the other was found in a Gladiator from England who autosomally clusters with Egyptians).
 
As a statistician I would say the Levant, Iraq, and Arabia are oversampled compared to the rest so I would not read much into the presence there.
 
As a statistician I would say the Levant, Iraq, and Arabia are oversampled compared to the rest so I would not read much into the presence there.

LOL, who is play-acting as Taleb?
 
HelloPlease have you got more explainations about that :"Also there is somewhat connection with French J2b1 samples, so potentially that could also be some brother line expansion from Levant to territory of France."
Hello, sorry for late reply, i seen the posts but i was traveling.. : )Regarding question, basically, when we look at our specific Balkan group of J2b1>CTS1969>PH4306>Y22066 markerwise we get some relatively distant matches from Middle East that are connected with us, like already mentioned Albeshri from Qatar, or sample from Palestine. And actually many more,,, But there are also French matches at about same genetic distance. Its surnames Blais and Lamy from France, and Blair from Canada who are all very close to each other so for sure same group under the J2b1. Then now when i look at French project i see that actually one of them took bigY, its a guy that i for example match at GD 25/67, Lamy from France.So just as i suspected, he is also positive for PH4306 and most likely some brother clade to Balkan samples.So some of French samples (Close to Lamy) are J2b1>CTS1969>PH4306>BY40879, while Balkan samples are confirmed J2b1>CTS1969>PH4306>Y22066.Furthermore, it would be nice if Lamy would upload his results to Yfull se we can see their analysis and where he will be placed on Yfull.Also hoping to get some Italian and Greek samples tested with bigY so we can see what is their situation within a J2b1 line. Hope this helped, also i see that you guys made many replies, im happy because of that, ill try to answer also to others : )
 
I wanna add to the "Greek" origin narrative that is spoken of in my village and family. It could be simply that they used to call everyone that's Byzantine a Greek back then, so when my forebears moved into Europe, it could have stuck. Anyway, it's also not unheard of the fact that there were Greek colonies in Levant and especially Anatolia (assimilation might have happened). Just a few thoughts : ]


Definitively possible as Greek was later official in Byzant, also since arriving from direction of Levant, we must have had contact with Greeks first.
Also dont forget our Greek match:

Greek_Phoca.jpg


J2b1 generally as a particularly Mediterranean haplogroup for sure had contact with Greeks long ago. If not even with pre Greek populations but as there is more J2b1 clades this will clear out with more bigY results as there is also one other line of J2b1 that seems to colonize Greece and Balkan much earlier then we - Byzantine Levantines did.
 
The Byzantine Empire ruled the Levant for a long time to rule out that there were Tribs of the Levant in brackets (Arab) migrated to Europe
Its possible, but you have to know that J2b>J2b1 spread from Caucasus to Levant and then further South to Arabia and all down to Oman and Yemen, however when we speak about this expansion we still dont know what exactly our ancestor might have been. He was for sure Levantine, and most likely started his journey somewhere from Palestine or Lebanon - Sidon as that was advance part of Levant in that time controlled by Byzantines, but also today we have higher percentages of J2b1 there, especially Cyprus nearby with probably highest J2b1 percentage in population. Furthermore there is also our ancient DNA so everything is pointing to area of Palestine, Jordan and Lebanon. Also with TMRCA of 1200 years and all closest relatives in Levant except ourselves its very easy possible that we (Y22066 Balkan) all come from one single guy, perhaps a soldier, merchant or administration..We J2b1, are practically found in entire Middle East, except in Israel and among Jewish people. So i would say anything is possible except for Jewish origin.Also J2b1 is 15800 years old but all groups have highest TMRCA of 6100 years what would suggest expansion at that time after a solid bottleneck.That expansion could possibly be in Pre-Semitic period, even tho haplogroup today clearly has strong signal in some Semitic groups like Arabs. Even if we connect it with Semitic expansion it would be some very early ones like Akkadians or Babylonians.Hopefully more Ancient DNA testing will tell us even more detailed story in future..
 
Hi everyone. I'm from Venice zone, Veneto, Italy, and I'm J-M205.
Here in italy this aplogroup is REALLY uncommon. Venice history is connected to the balkan zone as much as Greece. We have some Byzantine heritage, but it's only about other clades of j1 and j2. The M-205 is really rare. I think that my paternal line comes from Istria or the Balkan adriatic thanks to the Republic of Venice (my autosomals has Balkan, Eastern Euro and East med in significant percentage).

Don't know if this can help your research. I'm very ignorant about genetic and I'm trying to figure out from where my line comes from.

Sorry for bad english


Hello Arnguth, congrats on this awsome haplogroup : )

Where did you test? Do you have your markers also or just basic SNP test like 23andme? And do you know to what branch you might fall under J2b1, as that would help you to know more about your specific history?
That is the best place to start, best regards.


thanks!Sorry for my ignorance. From the link it seems that every J-m205 around Europe is from a different clade? Does it mean that the italians J m205 have another origin and common ancestor, not the same of the serbs ?

I havent seen this post. J-M205 among Serbs is result of recent assimilation of Byzantine leftovers in Balkan.

As most Ethnicities in Balkan separate themselves based on religion, most of people that were historically known as Christian Orthodox Vlachs were later asimilated into Serbian ethnos based on their religion. Esspecially in Croatia and Bosnia and partially Montenegro where we today find highest percentages of J2b1 among South Slavic speaking people.

Also reason why they called them Vlachs is because they didnt actually know what they were as they were clearly not Slavic, but today thanks to genetics we know they were Byzantine Levantines autosomally mixing with native Balkan woman.

You need to test STR markers or do advance SNP test like bigY to know to what branch you belong to.
 
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Hi,I´m new at this forum. My Mother, who was a Dane, always refused to tell me who my Father was. I´m born in Germany 1949. My Mother is dead since 30 Years. Recently I took an Y-test at FTAdna and, for me, the results surprisingly showed that I´m a J-M172 M205. All my matches haveSerbian or Croatian name. Now I have no clue to continue my research, anybody who has an idea ?
 

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