Mezolithic-Neolithic vs. Chalcolithic-Early Iron Age Y-DNA landscape of Europe

T

Tomenable

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I have recently made two maps of ancient Y-DNA from Europe.

First represents the Mesolithic-Neolithic period in Europe, 2nd represents the Chalcolithic-Early Iron Age period in Central Europe only.

1. The distribution of Y-DNA haplogroups in Europe in period ca. 6000 BC - ca. 3000 BC, with a few exceptions after 3000 BC:

The exceptions (after 3000 BC) include e.g. two samples from Poland - they are dated at approximately 2800 BC and belong to Corded Ware culture, but I decided to include them because probably they represent assimilated Neolithic population in that new Corded culture.

Also in Russia near the border with Belarus (in Smolensk oblast and Pskov oblast) only one sample of R1a is dated at 4000 BC, while the other 3 samples (two R1a and one N1c) are dated at 2500 BC - these 3 belong to "Zhizhitskaya culture" (I have no idea what it was).

Each circle in the map represents one sample, but note that locations are not accurate (for example most of G2 samples from southern France are from just one cemetery - they were found in the Treilles cave in Saint-Jean-et-Saint-Paul commune of Aveyron department):

I1 oraz I = I1 and I (one of these 2 samples is I1 from Hungary dated at ca. 7500 years ago, the other one is only given as I):

Y_DNA_8_do_5_kya.png


=================================

Second map:

2. Y-DNA hg-s in Central Europe in period ca. 2800 BC - ca. 700 BC (11 out of 12 samples of I2a are from one cemetery - a cave near Dorste):

Legend (in English):

KCS = Corded Ware cultural horizon
KPP = Urnfield cultural horizon
BB = Bell Beaker cultural horizon
KŁ = Lusatian culture
KH = Hallstatt culture
KU = Unetice culture
Kyjatice culture
Mezocsat culture

I2 klad niepodany = I2 subclade not given (these are Unetice culture samples from Eulau)
J albo I = J or I (one of two CWC samples from Jagodno from ca. 2800 BC)

Such text = places of burials

In this map I included also the same two samples from Poland (dated at ca. 2800 BC) as in the first map:

Copper_to_Iron.png


The map shows burials from period ca. 2800 BC (Jagodno) to ca. 700 BC (Mitterkirchen).

==========================
==========================

What can be seen is a strong correlation between Bell Beakers (BB) and R1b, as well as between Corded Wares (KCS) and R1a.

By contrast Urnfield cultures are mixed, with R1a in the east and R1b in the west.

Bell Beaker cultures are thought to have originated in Iberia - so I wonder what is the source of R1b in those cultures:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaker_culture#Origins

There have been numerous proposals by archaeologists as to the origins of the Bell Beaker culture, and debates continued on for decades. Several regions of origin have been postulated, notably the Iberian peninsula, the Netherlands and Central Europe.
Click to expand...

Because we have Neolithic R1b from Els Trocs cave in northern Spain, but we also have R1b from Samara Oblast in Russia.

Could it be that eastern R1b first made its way to Iberia, and then expanded from Iberia with Bell Beakers ???

Or perhaps those cultures originated in the Netherlands or in Central Europe, and not in Iberia ???
 
Assimilated neolithic population in the new corded ware? That G could be part of the corded ware culture.
 
Fluffy said:
Assimilated neolithic population in the new corded ware? That G could be part of the corded ware culture.
Click to expand...
Sure, that's how they got the farming genes from. From G and E folks.
 
LeBrok said:
Sure, that's how they got the farming genes from. From G and E folks.
Click to expand...

But he should have made the cutoff at 4500BC like what Haak and others state - A replacement of peoples at 4500BC in central Europe.
 
Sile said:
But he should have made the cutoff at 4500BC like what Haak and others state - A replacement of peoples at 4500BC in central Europe.
Click to expand...
It was partial replacement, and it replaced people with 80% of EEF with people with 40%. The EEF which came originally from G and E guys.
 
LeBrok said:
It was partial replacement, and it replaced people with 80% of EEF with people with 40%. The EEF which came originally from G and E guys.
Click to expand...

Which E marker in central europe/ Germany, all I see is G2a, T1a, F and I markers before 4500BC
 
LeBrok said:
It was partial replacement, and it replaced people with 80% of EEF with people with 40%. The EEF which came originally from G and E guys.
Click to expand...

And this is based on what? The opinion of one man?
 
Sile said:
Which E marker in central europe/ Germany, all I see is G2a, T1a, F and I markers before 4500BC
Click to expand...

Yes this gets annoying, wherever there is some G, there has to be E too, even though there is not.
 
The EEF would also have come from the I1 and I2 men, and let's not forget the autosomal input of the women. You can see the autosomal composition of the Central European I2 men in the Gamba et al paper:

This is the PCA from Gamba et al. Both the KO1 hunter gatherer and the NE7 Neolithic farmer are yDna I2 bearing men. Those y bearing men went from plotting north of Ajvide to plotting with Sardinians.
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/141021/ncomms6257/images/ncomms6257-f2.jpg

This is the paper:
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/141021/ncomms6257/full/ncomms6257.html

Based on still small numbers of samples, we don't know if yDna "E" was only a part of the Cardial movement or whether it also formed part of cultures like LBK. At any rate, Cardial then spread from the the coasts into the interior, as this recent paper points out. Also, although the two migrating groups might have been a bit different because they might have encountered slightly different Mesolithic groups as they moved across Europe, they were enough alike that all the Neolithic farmer remains cluster very near one another.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0125521

There is a discussion here:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/31194-First-Neolithic-Ancient-Dna-from-France

That may actually help explain the relatively high numbers of yDna "E" in the center of France which have long puzzled people. Of course, we don't have fine grained resolution from those old studies so it's hard to know precisely what subclades are involved.

Fluffy: And this is based on what? The opinion of one man?
Click to expand...

Of course not...it's based on Lazaridis et al, and Haak et al, (Did you take a look at how many of the world's population geneticists signed on to those papers?)and Gamba et al, and other papers. No one knows precisely how much replacement took place in which precise areas, but the ancestry of the people in the Central European Middle Neolithic was predominantly from the Near East and the ancestry of the newcomers was about 40-50% similar to modern Near Eastern populations. Those are rough parameters, of course. The most isolated regions of the northeast may have had additional input from remaining hunter-gatherers , in my opinion, but time will tell. As we get more samples, and the academics come out with some new modeling, we'll perhaps get a better handle on the amount of actual replacement. (Certain areas could have depopulated, etc.)
 
Tomenable said:
I have recently made two maps of ancient Y-DNA from Europe.

First represents the Mesolithic-Neolithic period in Europe, 2nd represents the Chalcolithic-Early Iron Age period in Central Europe only.

1. The distribution of Y-DNA haplogroups in Europe in period ca. 6000 BC - ca. 3000 BC, with a few exceptions after 3000 BC:

The exceptions (after 3000 BC) include e.g. two samples from Poland - they are dated at approximately 2800 BC and belong to Corded Ware culture, but I decided to include them because probably they represent assimilated Neolithic population in that new Corded culture.

Also in Russia near the border with Belarus (in Smolensk oblast and Pskov oblast) only one sample of R1a is dated at 4000 BC, while the other 3 samples (two R1a and one N1c) are dated at 2500 BC - these 3 belong to "Zhizhitskaya culture" (I have no idea what it was).

Each circle in the map represents one sample, but note that locations are not accurate (for example most of G2 samples from southern France are from just one cemetery - they were found in the Treilles cave in Saint-Jean-et-Saint-Paul commune of Aveyron department):

I1 oraz I = I1 and I (one of these 2 samples is I1 from Hungary dated at ca. 7500 years ago, the other one is only given as I):

Y_DNA_8_do_5_kya.png


=================================

Second map:

2. Y-DNA hg-s in Central Europe in period ca. 2800 BC - ca. 700 BC (11 out of 12 samples of I2a are from one cemetery - a cave near Dorste):

Legend (in English):

KCS = Corded Ware cultural horizon
KPP = Urnfield cultural horizon
BB = Bell Beaker cultural horizon
KŁ = Lusatian culture
KH = Hallstatt culture
KU = Unetice culture
Kyjatice culture
Mezocsat culture

I2 klad niepodany = I2 subclade not given (these are Unetice culture samples from Eulau)
J albo I = J or I (one of two CWC samples from Jagodno from ca. 2800 BC)

Such text = places of burials

In this map I included also the same two samples from Poland (dated at ca. 2800 BC) as in the first map:

Copper_to_Iron.png


The map shows burials from period ca. 2800 BC (Jagodno) to ca. 700 BC (Mitterkirchen).

==========================
==========================

What can be seen is a strong correlation between Bell Beakers (BB) and R1b, as well as between Corded Wares (KCS) and R1a.

By contrast Urnfield cultures are mixed, with R1a in the east and R1b in the west.

Bell Beaker cultures are thought to have originated in Iberia - so I wonder what is the source of R1b in those cultures:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaker_culture#Origins



Because we have Neolithic R1b from Els Trocs cave in northern Spain, but we also have R1b from Samara Oblast in Russia.

Could it be that eastern R1b first made its way to Iberia, and then expanded from Iberia with Bell Beakers ???

Or perhaps those cultures originated in the Netherlands or in Central Europe, and not in Iberia ???
Click to expand...

Cool maps dude, thanks. However I have problem with discerning colours again. Is it too much to ask you to use more contrasting colours please? Also can you implement same hg colours in every map?
I'm used to Maciamo's colour scheme. Perhaps we can use some standardization in this field? Just suggestions.
 
Fluffy said:
I was just saying people tend to put E and G together for some reason. I don't even think E is Neolithic.
Click to expand...

So, the dating and analysis of the yDna of that Neolithic sample from Spain was done incorrectly?
 
Fluffy said:
I was just saying people tend to put E and G together for some reason. I don't even think E is Neolithic.
Click to expand...

The Neolithic i/ˌniːɵˈlɪθɪk/[1] Era, or Period, from νέος (néos, "new") and λίθος (líthos, "stone"), or New Stone Age, was a period in the development of humantechnology, beginning about 10,200 BC, according to the ASPRO chronology, in some parts of the Middle East, and later in other parts of the world[2] and ending between 4,500 and 2,000 BC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic


which time period would the 7000 E-V13 year old skeleton found in North Spain fall?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic_Europe


 
It is possible that E hitchhiked a ride with culture of G farmers same as hunter-gatherer hg I did, since early Neolithic. I'm still thinking that different haplogroups spread by means of material advances. G with farming, E with pottery, J or T with copper or maritime trade. F and C could have been in minority of European HGs, or it was also as minority clades of Near Eastern farmers.
I can't wait for Near East ancient samples, Natufians and the rest of fertile Crescent.
 
Maleth said:
The Neolithic i/ˌniːɵˈlɪθɪk/[1] Era, or Period, from νέος (néos, "new") and λίθος (líthos, "stone"), or New Stone Age, was a period in the development of humantechnology, beginning about 10,200 BC, according to the ASPRO chronology, in some parts of the Middle East, and later in other parts of the world[2] and ending between 4,500 and 2,000 BC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic


which time period would the 7000 E-V13 year old skeleton found in North Spain fall?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic_Europe
Click to expand...

Most likely he was a wanderer from North Africa.
 
Fluffy said:
Most likely he was a wanderer from North Africa.
Click to expand...

There is culture and then there is geography. Neolithic is a culture, not a continent. The sample was "E", in a Neolithic community, in Spain in 7000 BCE. End of story.

I think it came east with Cardial, but even if it didn't it doesn't change the fact that it was in Europe 7,000 BC.
 
Fluffy said:
Most likely he was a wanderer from North Africa.
Click to expand...

Its good to get informed about the subject....this might help you ;)

Interesting results from the lineage analysis can be summarized as follows: (i) R-L23*, the eastern branch of haplogroup R-M269, is present in Eastern Bulgaria since the post glacial period; (ii) haplogroup E-V13, which probably originated in Western Asia, has a Mesolithic age in Bulgaria from where it expanded after the spread of farming marked by haplogroup G-P15, J-M410 representatives; (iii) haplogroup J-M241 probably reflects the Neolithic westward expansion of farmers from the earliest sites along the Black Sea.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0056779
 
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