New map of R1b-ht35 (L23, L51, L11, Z2103)

Thank you for this ht35 map!
When looking for R1b haplotype in Western Europe, you usually find ht15 maps, but not ht35, so this one is very useful.
Thanks to the others for the insight on Anatolian history, it's very interesting.
 
Silesian said:
greek&phoeniciancolonies.jpg








Areas in Anatolia where Greek colonies were also had Hittites and Phrygians.

Southwestern Anatolian languages

Anatolian_03.png






Turkey-kizilirmak.svg
Click to expand...


I think the Carians and Lycians Are apart of he Arzawaian complex that rivaled the Hittites but I could be wrong.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arzawa

On a speculative note I'm sure that the Hittites homesteaded in Western Anatolia but not in mass numbers since the Arzawians and the Hittites didn't get along all that good.

Unless if the Hittites killed all of the Arazawian men and sold all of woman and children into slavery, doubt the R1b Z103 Hittites would have made it as far as Spain and Ireland without getting Petered out if the Hittites had kids with the Lydians a Carians

I'm quite curious to see how the ancient Greeks and Hittites viewed the origins of the Carian and Lydians.
 
Maciamo said:
Here is a new map showing the Proto-Indo-European R1b, as well Greek and Anatolian branches of Indo-European people, including the Hittites, Lydians, Phrygians and Armenians. The Trojans also probably belonged to this group. This branch of R1b is the first that emerged from the Pontic Steppe and therefore expanded from the Balkans and Carpathians. It includes R1b-L23/S141, its subclade L51/M412/S167, and its two subclades L11/S127/L151 (in central an northern Europe) and Z2103 (in Anatolia and Assyria). Altogether they are known as 'haplotype 35' (ht35), as opposed to the Western European 'haplotype 15', which comprises the Proto-Italo-Celtic P312/S116 and the Proto-Germanic U106/S21.

Click to expand...


Maciamo, i think you might need to update a map a bit?.....Kosovo has a bit more R1b than Albania



[TABLE="class: cms_table"]
[TR]
[TD]Population
--------------------------


Albanians(Kosovar)[/TD]
[TD]Language
------------

IE (Albanian)[/TD]
[TD]N
------


114[/TD]
[TD]R1b
-------


21.10[/TD]
[TD]R1a
-------


4.42[/TD]
[TD]I
-----------

I1=5.31
I2a2=2.65[/TD]
[TD]E-V13
---------


47.37[/TD]
[TD]J
---------


J2=16.7[/TD]
[TD]G
-----


0[/TD]
[TD]N
---


0[/TD]
[TD]T
---


0[/TD]
[TD]Others
----------------


P[xQ,R1]=1.77[/TD]
[TD]Reference
----------------------


Pericic2005[3][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Albanians[/TD]
[TD]IE (Albanian)[/TD]
[TD]55[/TD]
[TD]18.2[/TD]
[TD]9.1[/TD]
[TD]I1=3.6
I2a=14.5
I2b=3.6[/TD]
[TD]27.5[/TD]
[TD]J1=3.6
J2=20.0[/TD]
[TD]1.8[/TD]
[TD]0.0[/TD]
[TD]0.0[/TD]
[TD]—[/TD]
[TD]Battaglia2008[5][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: sortable, width: 788"]
[TR]
[TD="class: left"]Region/Haplogroup[/TD]
[TH="class: I1, align: center"]I1[/TH]
[TH="class: I2, align: center"]I2*/I2a[/TH]
[TH="class: I2b, align: center"]I2b[/TH]
[TH="class: R1a, align: center"]R1a[/TH]
[TH="class: R1b, align: center"]R1b[/TH]
[TH="class: G2a, align: center"]G[/TH]
[TH="class: J2, align: center"]J2[/TH]
[TH="class: J1, align: center"]J*/J1[/TH]
[TH="class: E1b, align: center"]E1b1b[/TH]
[TH="class: T, align: center"]T[/TH]
[TH="class: Q, align: center"]Q[/TH]
[TH="class: N1c1, align: center"]N[/TH]
[TD="align: center"]Sample size[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: left, width: 130"]Albania[/TD]
[TD="class: I1, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="class: I2, align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="class: I2b, align: center"]1.5[/TD]
[TD="class: R1a, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="class: R1b, align: center"]16[/TD]
[TD="class: G2a, align: center"]1.5[/TD]
[TD="class: J2, align: center"]19.5[/TD]
[TD="class: J1, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="class: E1b, align: center"]27.5[/TD]
[TD="class: T, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="class: Q, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: N1c1, align: center"]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: sortable, width: 788"]
[TR]
[TD="class: left"]Kosovo[/TD]
[TD="class: I1, align: center"]5.5[/TD]
[TD="class: I2, align: center"]2.5[/TD]
[TD="class: I2b, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: R1a, align: center"]4.5[/TD]
[TD="class: R1b, align: center"]21[/TD]
[TD="class: G2a, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: J2, align: center"]16.5[/TD]
[TD="class: J1, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: E1b, align: center"]47.5[/TD]
[TD="class: T, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: Q, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: N1c1, align: center"]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml
 
Ike said:
But not on the map. The only place where you can see that color is inside that black square.
Click to expand...
Yes your right; good catch:good_job:
 
Interesting talk about R1b-ht35 However I'd like to turn my attention to this subclade uniformically spread throughout Northern Europe; Celto-Germanic/Slavic territory I might add. Was there ancient trade going on between Greek/Anatolian deep into the Forested "Barbarian lands" or was there an archeological culture that spread R1b-Ht35 into Northern Europe; for instance Urnfield Culture or Corded Ware Culture?
 
Based on %s this map shows the H35 % among Y-R1b; not an absolute percentage - and the less H35 zone is labelled between 1 and 5%; in strong density lands for R1b with, say, 1 àr 1,5%, this H35 can be a "local" old upstram part (unmutated or supposed so, ancestral), not an intruder from South or South-East? Try to know...
 
I will say: not a MORE RECENT intruder.
 
Meazzano said:
I'm the case near Foggia. But there is a question: Northern Apulia wasn't colonized by greeks. The only greek colony in Apulia is Taranto, quite far from Cerignola and Andria (homeland of Montingelli, my surname). Any answers? than kyou
Click to expand...

It could be a line from BA Central Europe, spreading with Italic peoples. Otherwise, maybe Illyrian: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iapyg...es_in_Italy_550_BC_(English)_(simple_map).svg.

Do you know which exact sublclade you belong to?
 
Maciamo said:
Here is a new map showing the Proto-Indo-European R1b, as well Greek and Anatolian branches of Indo-European people, including the Hittites, Lydians, Phrygians and Armenians. The Trojans also probably belonged to this group. This branch of R1b is the first that emerged from the Pontic Steppe and therefore expanded from the Balkans and Carpathians. It includes R1b-L23/S141, its subclade L51/M412/S167, and its two subclades L11/S127/L151 (in central an northern Europe) and Z2103 (in Anatolia and Assyria). Altogether they are known as 'haplotype 35' (ht35), as opposed to the Western European 'haplotype 15', which comprises the Proto-Italo-Celtic P312/S116 and the Proto-Germanic U106/S21.

Click to expand...

@Maciamo can you shed light a bit more on the below please?...

1. According to this source your R1b M269-L23 would be the same as
R1b-M269 (xL23) ?
​
haplogroup-r1b-m269xl23.jpg

2. Here on this study the spread goes from the central Balkans dont know about the timeframe though...you also mention ''This branch of R1b is the first that emerged from the Pontic Steppe and therefore expanded from the Balkans and Carpathians",
You also mention quote Z2103 could have descended from Albania or Macedonia during the Dorian invasion (see below), thought to have happened in the 12th century BCE.

THIS WOULD BE EXACTLY AS ON THE ABOVE MAP

Which haplogroup do you think mainly belonged to this group?


Source from:
Data used is mainly from Myres et al. (2011). For DF27, newly reported data includes reports by Solé-Morata et al. (2017). Both have been reviewed, including more recent papers, in data reported by Hernández et al. (2018).
https://indo-european.eu/maps/haplogroup-r1b-m269/
 
Last edited:
Hello for All from ancient ancestor mutacy L11!

InukCanuck said:
Do you have a version of the map showing the distribution of R1B-L11*? I am having a very hard time finding studies which explicitely differentiate my haplotype from the great sub-clades downstream (U106 and P312). There is a facebook group run by Adrian Ballard consisting entirely of L11* members. If you have this clade feel free to join if you want to learn more about our individual genealogy.
Click to expand...
Hi All!
I have a mutation L11 to P 312, and exactly P310,311,312 all in (+), and next to U152 to Z56(R-BY3544) to Z43(R-Y60904)In 430.b.c.e Jastorf Culture, from ancient ancestors ItaloCeltic branch. Best regards for All! Leszek from Poland/ Szczecin.
 
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