New scientific evidence for the history and occupants of Tomb I (“Tomb of Persephone”) in the Great Tumulus at Vergina

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Abstract​

The Great Tumulus of Vergina (Aegae) is considered to be the royal burial complex of the Macedonian kings. Beneath it four tombs were discovered, labeled Tomb I, II, III and IV. Several hypotheses have been proposed for the identities of the occupants of the “royal tombs”, but without scientific backing. We present new data from Tomb I (“The Tomb of Persephone”), which contained inhumed (unburnt), in situ and commingled adult skeletal remains, as well as commingled nonadult and animal bones. We applied a range of scientific techniques, including radiocarbon dating, ancient DNA (aDNA), strontium and stable carbon and nitrogen isotope analysis, supported by osteological and odontological observations on the adult and nonadult bones found in Tomb I to provide concrete evidence for the date of burials, sex, age at death and origin of the individuals interred in this tomb. Our results show that, with the exception of four bones that were identified as female, all the adult bones are male according to the aDNA and osteological results, and they belonged to a man aged 25–35 years with a stature of approximately 167 cm. Radiocarbon dating places this burial in the first half of the 4th century calBC, specifically between 400 and 367 calBC, and by applying a potential collagen offset correction this is slightly shifted to 388-356 calBC at the latest. The female bones date to the same period. However, all the nonadults and animal bones, date to the Roman period from 150 calBC, the earliest to 130 calAD the latest. Therefore, these are not related to the primary adult burials. The male occupant was most likely an important Macedonian royal of the Argead/Temenid house who died in the period 388-356 calBC and was probably honored or worshipped in the shrine above and entombed likely together with a female. Previous suggestions that the skeletal remains belong to Philip II, his wife Cleopatra and newborn child are not scientifically sustainable.


I have seen enough on the internet.The samples are all low-coverage,and i have seen a R-L151 "Argead Y-DNA". The only sample that "resembles" maybe the Ancient Macedonian Ancestry is DEM3237.Although i suspect that this sample also has some exotic West European influence.The G25:
greek:DEM3237_rmdup,0.133173,0.144205,0.016593,-0.046835,0.029852,-0.018686,0.005405,0.005077,-0.001636,0.033167,0.00341,0.007194,-0.021704,-0.006744,-0.012079,-0.000133,0.008736,-0.008108,0.006411,-0.011255,-0.015223,-0.0115,-0.008504,0.011447,-0.001796
 

Abstract​

The Great Tumulus of Vergina (Aegae) is considered to be the royal burial complex of the Macedonian kings. Beneath it four tombs were discovered, labeled Tomb I, II, III and IV. Several hypotheses have been proposed for the identities of the occupants of the “royal tombs”, but without scientific backing. We present new data from Tomb I (“The Tomb of Persephone”), which contained inhumed (unburnt), in situ and commingled adult skeletal remains, as well as commingled nonadult and animal bones. We applied a range of scientific techniques, including radiocarbon dating, ancient DNA (aDNA), strontium and stable carbon and nitrogen isotope analysis, supported by osteological and odontological observations on the adult and nonadult bones found in Tomb I to provide concrete evidence for the date of burials, sex, age at death and origin of the individuals interred in this tomb. Our results show that, with the exception of four bones that were identified as female, all the adult bones are male according to the aDNA and osteological results, and they belonged to a man aged 25–35 years with a stature of approximately 167 cm. Radiocarbon dating places this burial in the first half of the 4th century calBC, specifically between 400 and 367 calBC, and by applying a potential collagen offset correction this is slightly shifted to 388-356 calBC at the latest. The female bones date to the same period. However, all the nonadults and animal bones, date to the Roman period from 150 calBC, the earliest to 130 calAD the latest. Therefore, these are not related to the primary adult burials. The male occupant was most likely an important Macedonian royal of the Argead/Temenid house who died in the period 388-356 calBC and was probably honored or worshipped in the shrine above and entombed likely together with a female. Previous suggestions that the skeletal remains belong to Philip II, his wife Cleopatra and newborn child are not scientifically sustainable.


I have seen enough on the internet.The samples are all low-coverage,and i have seen a R-L151 "Argead Y-DNA". The only sample that "resembles" maybe the Ancient Macedonian Ancestry is DEM3237.Although i suspect that this sample also has some exotic West European influence.The G25:
It's probably the only sample which is not contaminated
 
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1/2 R-L151>R-P312>R-U152>R-L2>R-Y11932
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xR-L151>R-P312>R-U152>R-L2>R-Y167279
xR-L151>R-P312>R-U152>R-L2>R-Y186860
xR-L151>R-P312>R-U152>R-L2>R-Y187919
xR-L151>R-P312>R-U152>R-L2>R-Y22151>R-L135
xR-L151>R-P312>R-U152>R-L2>R-Y22192>R-Y20253>R-FT27869>R-BY3484
xR-L151>R-P312>R-U152>R-L2>R-Y22192>R-Y20253>R-FT27869>R-FGC63181
xR-L151>R-P312>R-U152>R-L2>R-Y3961>R-Y179419
xR-L151>R-P312>R-U152>R-L2>R-Y3961>R-Y3960>R-MF100284>R-BY25318
xR-L151>R-P312>R-U152>R-L2>R-Y3961>R-Y3960>R-MF100284>R-FGC79329
xR-L151>R-P312>R-U152>R-L2>R-Y3961>R-Y3960>R-Y17997
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xR-L151>R-P312>R-U152>R-L2>R-Y581521
xR-L151>R-P312>R-U152>R-L2>R-Y61958
xR-L151>R-P312>R-U152>R-L2>R-Z258>R-L20
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xR-L151>R-U106>R-Y477958>R-FGC3861>R-Z8053>R-Y2404>R-S1859
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xR-L151>R-U106>R-Y477958>R-S263>R-S264>R-S497>R-Z304>R-A10971
1/1 R-L151>R-U106>R-Y477958>R-S263>R-S264>R-S497>R-Z304>R-DF96>R-FGC13326>R-FGC28730>R-S25234>R-FGC13324>R-FGC13316
xR-FGC13316>R-A8551>R-A8553>R-A10673
xR-FGC13316>R-Z27559>R-P89.2
xR-L151>R-U106>R-Y477958>R-S263>R-S264>R-S497>R-Z304>R-DF96>R-FGC13326>R-FGC28730>R-S25234>R-S16265>R-A8617
xR-L151>R-U106>R-Y477958>R-S263>R-S264>R-S497>R-Z304>R-DF96>R-FGC13326>R-FGC28730>R-S25234>R-S16265>R-FGC12364>R-A8615
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xR-L151>R-U106>R-Y477958>R-S263>R-S264>R-S497>R-Z304>R-DF96>R-FGC13326>R-FGC28730>R-Y13174>R-Y57143>R-Y13169
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xR-L151>R-U106>R-Y477958>R-S263>R-S264>R-S497>R-Z304>R-DF96>R-FGC13326>R-FGC79603
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xR-L151>R-U106>R-Y477958>R-S263>R-S264>R-S497>R-Z304>R-DF96>R-FGC13326>R-S22047>R-FGC46344>R-FGC14152
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1/1 R-L151>R-U106>R-Y477958>R-S263>R-S264>R-S497>R-Z304>R-Y498434>R-DF98>R-S18823>R-S22069>R-FT2350
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xR-L151>R-U106>R-Y477958>R-S263>R-S264>R-S497>R-Z304>R-Y498434>R-DF98>R-S1911>R-FGC13445>R-Y105823
xR-L151>R-U106>R-Y477958>R-S263>R-S264>R-S497>R-Z304>R-Y498434>R-DF98>R-S1911>R-Y64293
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xR-L151>R-U106>R-Y477958>R-S263>R-S264>R-S5520>R-FGC11662
xR-L151>R-U106>R-Y477958>R-S263>R-S264>R-S5520>R-FGC30838
xR-L151>R-U106>R-Y477958>R-S263>R-S264>R-S5520>R-Y19738
xR-L151>R-U106>R-Y477958>R-S263>R-S264>R-Y18100>R-A16289
xR-L151>R-U106>R-Y477958>R-S263>R-S264>R-Y18100>R-Y20981
xR-L151>R-U106>R-Y477958>R-S263>R-S264>R-Y222029>R-Y29890>R-Y29891
xR-L151>R-U106>R-Y477958>R-S263>R-S264>R-Y222029>R-Y3965
xR-L151>R-U106>R-Y477958>R-S263>R-S499
xR-L151>R-U106>R-Y477958>R-S263>R-Y177023
xR-L151>R-U106>R-Z19>R-A6924
xR-L151>R-U106>R-Z19>R-BY100599
xR-L151>R-U106>R-Z19>R-DF95
xR-L151>R-U106>R-Z19>R-FGC5817>R-FGC5826>R-FGC5809
xR-L151>R-U106>R-Z19>R-FGC5817>R-Y291823
xR-L151>R-U106>R-Z19>R-FGC79182>R-FGC72105
xR-L151>R-U106>R-Z19>R-FGC79182>R-ZP87
xR-L151>R-U106>R-Z19>R-S15309
xR-L151>R-U106>R-Z19>R-S19726
xR-L151>R-U106>R-Z19>R-S7047
 
Y-DNA cannot be contaminated, that’s an urban legend spread by people who are illiterate in biology.
Only illiterates in biology would write nonsense like this
 

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Probably a legit descendant of Hermaphroditus considering the Y calls
In the AI era is hilarious to write absurd nonsense like "Y-DNA can't be affected by contamination"
 
Only illiterates in biology would write nonsense like this
I have a degree in biology, and I’m a professional breeder.

Don’t copy-paste some image from the internet.

Explain in your own words how it’s even possible to contaminate the Y chromosome in ancient samples in the year 2025 — let’s see if you can articulate something coherent without embarrassing yourself.

Contamination can only ever be an issue with autosomal DNA, never with the Y chromosome.

Autosomal DNA is only useful for those PCA charts you archaeogenetics nerds like to jerk off to — people with no basic training in biology. Those of us who actually understand that 100% of autosomal DNA can be replaced in just four generations through selective breeding only care about the deep Y subclade.

In case you weren’t aware, around 95% of ancient DNA samples belong to extinct haplogroups. It’s not that they only go up to a certain subclade — they have no continuity with present-day populations. They’re extinct “cousins.”
 

Abstract​

The Great Tumulus of Vergina (Aegae) is considered to be the royal burial complex of the Macedonian kings. Beneath it four tombs were discovered, labeled Tomb I, II, III and IV. Several hypotheses have been proposed for the identities of the occupants of the “royal tombs”, but without scientific backing. We present new data from Tomb I (“The Tomb of Persephone”), which contained inhumed (unburnt), in situ and commingled adult skeletal remains, as well as commingled nonadult and animal bones. We applied a range of scientific techniques, including radiocarbon dating, ancient DNA (aDNA), strontium and stable carbon and nitrogen isotope analysis, supported by osteological and odontological observations on the adult and nonadult bones found in Tomb I to provide concrete evidence for the date of burials, sex, age at death and origin of the individuals interred in this tomb. Our results show that, with the exception of four bones that were identified as female, all the adult bones are male according to the aDNA and osteological results, and they belonged to a man aged 25–35 years with a stature of approximately 167 cm. Radiocarbon dating places this burial in the first half of the 4th century calBC, specifically between 400 and 367 calBC, and by applying a potential collagen offset correction this is slightly shifted to 388-356 calBC at the latest. The female bones date to the same period. However, all the nonadults and animal bones, date to the Roman period from 150 calBC, the earliest to 130 calAD the latest. Therefore, these are not related to the primary adult burials. The male occupant was most likely an important Macedonian royal of the Argead/Temenid house who died in the period 388-356 calBC and was probably honored or worshipped in the shrine above and entombed likely together with a female. Previous suggestions that the skeletal remains belong to Philip II, his wife Cleopatra and newborn child are not scientifically sustainable.


I have seen enough on the internet.The samples are all low-coverage,and i have seen a R-L151 "Argead Y-DNA". The only sample that "resembles" maybe the Ancient Macedonian Ancestry is DEM3237.Although i suspect that this sample also has some exotic West European influence.The G25:
The G25 Coordinates plot most similarly to the Mycenaean Mygdalia LBA, Corsican moderns, Tsakonian Greek moderns.

1746296653960.png


The stock generic west eurasian vahaduo PCA places him between Corsicans and Central Italians but still within Mygdalia LBA Greek cluster.

1746296966354.png
 
I have a degree in biology, and I’m a professional breeder.

Don’t copy-paste some image from the internet.

Explain in your own words how it’s even possible to contaminate the Y chromosome in ancient samples in the year 2025 — let’s see if you can articulate something coherent without embarrassing yourself.

Contamination can only ever be an issue with autosomal DNA, never with the Y chromosome.

Autosomal DNA is only useful for those PCA charts you archaeogenetics nerds like to jerk off to — people with no basic training in biology. Those of us who actually understand that 100% of autosomal DNA can be replaced in just four generations through selective breeding only care about the deep Y subclade.

In case you weren’t aware, around 95% of ancient DNA samples belong to extinct haplogroups. It’s not that they only go up to a certain subclade — they have no continuity with present-day populations. They’re extinct “cousins.”
1.Yes I truly believe you that you have a degree in biology judging by the nonsense you write like "Y-DNA can't be affected by contamination".
And I'm Richard Gere
2."Don’t copy-paste some image from the internet."
Well it's not a copy paste image from the internet dummy,it's an AI Answer.
3.Your nonsense about the importance of Autosomal in population genetics is insanely idiotic

Dude you do not have a degree in biology.
Stop embarrassing yourself with such silly claims.
 
The G25 Coordinates plot most similarly to the Mycenaean Mygdalia LBA, Corsican moderns, Tsakonian Greek moderns.

View attachment 18234

The stock generic west eurasian vahaduo PCA places him between Corsicans and Central Italians but still within Mygdalia LBA Greek cluster.

View attachment 18235
So, the closest was MYG008, a J2b haplogroup. It was expected, although it was considered a mystery for decades. A part of the mystery is unveiling.
Why is it so hard to publish the fact that the individual is j2b?
 
1.Yes I truly believe you that you have a degree in biology judging by the nonsense you write like "Y-DNA can't be affected by contamination".
And I'm Richard Gere
2."Don’t copy-paste some image from the internet."
Well it's not a copy paste image from the internet dummy,it's an AI Answer.
3.Your nonsense about the importance of Autosomal in population genetics is insanely idiotic

Dude you do not have a degree in biology.
Stop embarrassing yourself with such silly claims.
Y DNA can't be contaminated because it's haploid. Only an insane person couldn't distinguish between the ancient sequence and the contaminated ones, whether it's been contaminated by 1 or 500 fucking people.

Contamination in Y subclades was a thing back when tests were done with PCR. Now, it's totally impossible for a lab researcher to be so fucking useless that they can't distinguish modern contamination from the sample they're analyzing. Basically, because when you look at the reconstructed sequence as the entire Y chromosome would look, the contaminated Y DNA sequences are FUCKING LONGER BECAUSE THEY HAVE 1,000 OR 2,000 MORE YEARS OF MUTATION SEQUENCE. YOU CAN SEE IT AT A FUCKING GLANCE IN THE DRAWING MADE BY THE FUCKING PROGRAM'S SOFTWARE.

The DNA programs you guys use are toy calculators calibrated by people with my educational level, and they're ALL garbage.

Now, copy the message, delete the profanity, and tell chat gpt to explain it to you like you're a 5-year-old.

And add a title:

The Y chromosome can't be contaminated because it's haploid, and in 2025, DNA software can't fail unless the person running the program is mentally handicapped.
 
Y DNA can't be contaminated because it's haploid. Only an insane person couldn't distinguish between the ancient sequence and the contaminated ones, whether it's been contaminated by 1 or 500 fucking people.

Contamination in Y subclades was a thing back when tests were done with PCR. Now, it's totally impossible for a lab researcher to be so fucking useless that they can't distinguish modern contamination from the sample they're analyzing. Basically, because when you look at the reconstructed sequence as the entire Y chromosome would look, the contaminated Y DNA sequences are FUCKING LONGER BECAUSE THEY HAVE 1,000 OR 2,000 MORE YEARS OF MUTATION SEQUENCE. YOU CAN SEE IT AT A FUCKING GLANCE IN THE DRAWING MADE BY THE FUCKING PROGRAM'S SOFTWARE.

The DNA programs you guys use are toy calculators calibrated by people with my educational level, and they're ALL garbage.

Now, copy the message, delete the profanity, and tell chat gpt to explain it to you like you're a 5-year-old.

And add a title:

The Y chromosome can't be contaminated because it's haploid, and in 2025, DNA software can't fail unless the person running the program is mentally handicapped.
It sounds like you just admitted that Y dna can in fact be contaminated, regardless of how easy it may be to distinguish it. Is there any reason you feel the need to write in all caps like a child with profanity? This really is not needed.

1.Yes I truly believe you that you have a degree in biology judging by the nonsense you write like "Y-DNA can't be affected by contamination".
And I'm Richard Gere
2."Don’t copy-paste some image from the internet."
Well it's not a copy paste image from the internet dummy,it's an AI Answer.
3.Your nonsense about the importance of Autosomal in population genetics is insanely idiotic

Dude you do not have a degree in biology.
Stop embarrassing yourself with such silly claims.

Strongly agree here on point 3. The Y chromosome contains only ~100 protein coding genes. The human genome contains about 20,000 by comparison. To hyperfocus on Y chromosome which is responsible for 0.5% of genetic variation within humans is nonsensical. I can understand not wanting to ignore the Y haplogroup entirely but the autosomal structure is the much bigger picture.
 
I have a degree in biology, and I’m a professional breeder.

Don’t copy-paste some image from the internet.

Explain in your own words how it’s even possible to contaminate the Y chromosome in ancient samples in the year 2025 — let’s see if you can articulate something coherent without embarrassing yourself.

Contamination can only ever be an issue with autosomal DNA, never with the Y chromosome.

Autosomal DNA is only useful for those PCA charts you archaeogenetics nerds like to jerk off to — people with no basic training in biology. Those of us who actually understand that 100% of autosomal DNA can be replaced in just four generations through selective breeding only care about the deep Y subclade.

In case you weren’t aware, around 95% of ancient DNA samples belong to extinct haplogroups. It’s not that they only go up to a certain subclade — they have no continuity with present-day populations. They’re extinct “cousins.”
Stop parroting around some AI nonsense. You haven’t a clue how these samples are sequenced.

First, sample that he pointed out, DEM3237, is a female who’s R1b>L151 (Y410). Second, it’s obviously contaminated that even the paper points out. Otherwise how did this female end up with a Y chromosome?


Second, in terms of taking the Y seriously, you need better coverage. These type of one reads contaminated samples of such a low quality can’t be taken seriously. The whole paper is a bust, nothing burger.
 
https://*****/razibkhan/status/1918519585411571978?t=8_EO1nIem-tgugQZbr6Uyw&s=19
 
Y DNA can't be contaminated because it's haploid. Only an insane person couldn't distinguish between the ancient sequence and the contaminated ones, whether it's been contaminated by 1 or 500 fucking people.

Contamination in Y subclades was a thing back when tests were done with PCR. Now, it's totally impossible for a lab researcher to be so fucking useless that they can't distinguish modern contamination from the sample they're analyzing. Basically, because when you look at the reconstructed sequence as the entire Y chromosome would look, the contaminated Y DNA sequences are FUCKING LONGER BECAUSE THEY HAVE 1,000 OR 2,000 MORE YEARS OF MUTATION SEQUENCE. YOU CAN SEE IT AT A FUCKING GLANCE IN THE DRAWING MADE BY THE FUCKING PROGRAM'S SOFTWARE.

The DNA programs you guys use are toy calculators calibrated by people with my educational level, and they're ALL garbage.

Now, copy the message, delete the profanity, and tell chat gpt to explain it to you like you're a 5-year-old.

And add a title:

The Y chromosome can't be contaminated because it's haploid, and in 2025, DNA software can't fail unless the person running the program is mentally handicapped.
1746314860929.png

Even chatgpt said you are wrong. Also, stop the profanity, or we will suspend your account.
 
View attachment 18237
I agree with Razib Khan.
I also agree with him. Hollywood's ethnically disingenuous approach of actors portraying historical figures is nauseating. At least use actors of southern European heritage to portray ancient Greece if one isn't willing to use Greek actors themselves. The semblance will at least be there.
 
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