paleoethic european

[tjlowery87]

Is haplogroup I paleoethic European......?

 

[tjlowery87]

any body got any theories?

 

[Anthro-inclined]

any body got any theories?

I devulged my theories on paleolithic European haplogroups in this thread,
www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28389-Possible-new-cro-magnon-haplogroup
among them were F3 and C7.

 

[adamo]

Haplogroup I is pretty much the oldest male European lineage to enter Europe, they are linked to the gravettian culture.

 

[tjlowery87]

would haplogroup I be with cro magnons

 

[spruithean]

would haplogroup I be with cro magnons

Some have said that Haplogroup I was one of the haplogroups of the Cro-Magnon, but we can't know for sure.

 

[adamo]

I think it was the very first bulk of Cro-mangoes the next to come had predominantly R1b I believe that to be aurignacian culture, the r1bs came shortly after the I men.

 

[tjlowery87]

[TABLE="class: mutation_information"]
[TR="class: i4000163"]
[TD] i4000163 (P212)[/TD]
[TD="class: my_call lefted"][/TD]
[TD="class: anc righted"]T[/TD]
[TD="class: arrow centered"]

[/TD]
[TD="class: der lefted"]A[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: rs2032597"]
[TD] rs2032597 (M170)[/TD]
[TD="class: my_call lefted"]C[/TD]
[TD="class: anc righted"]A[/TD]
[TD="class: arrow centered"]

[/TD]
[TD="class: der lefted"]C[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: rs2319818"]
[TD] rs2319818 (U179)[/TD]
[TD="class: my_call lefted"]A[/TD]
[TD="class: anc righted"]G[/TD]
[TD="class: arrow centered"]

[/TD]
[TD="class: der lefted"]A[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: rs9341301"]
[TD] rs9341301 (M258)[/TD]
[TD="class: my_call lefted"]C[/TD]
[TD="class: anc righted"]T[/TD]
[TD="class: arrow centered"]

[/TD]
[TD="class: der lefted"]C[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: mut_header, colspan: 5"]these are haplogroup I markers correct[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[tjlowery87]

results

I don't know if 23 and me test the p.19 snpr or not

 

[Jackson]

If there are any y lineages left from that time, I is the best candidate, but it may not be.

 

[tjlowery87]

[TABLE="class: mutation_information"]
[TR="class: i4000163"]
[TD] i4000163 (P212)
[/TD]
[TD="class: my_call lefted"][/TD]
[TD="class: anc righted"]T
[/TD]
[TD="class: arrow centered"]

[/TD]
[TD="class: der lefted"]A
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: rs2032597"]
[TD] rs2032597 (M170)
[/TD]
[TD="class: my_call lefted"]C
[/TD]
[TD="class: anc righted"]A
[/TD]
[TD="class: arrow centered"]

[/TD]
[TD="class: der lefted"]C
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: rs2319818"]
[TD] rs2319818 (U179)
[/TD]
[TD="class: my_call lefted"]A
[/TD]
[TD="class: anc righted"]G
[/TD]
[TD="class: arrow centered"]

[/TD]
[TD="class: der lefted"]A
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: rs9341301"]
[TD] rs9341301 (M258)
[/TD]
[TD="class: my_call lefted"]C
[/TD]
[TD="class: anc righted"]T
[/TD]
[TD="class: arrow centered"]

[/TD]
[TD="class: der lefted"]C
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: mut_header, colspan: 5"]these are haplogroup I markers correct
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

this is the snp chart they tested to get I haplogroup

 

[tjlowery87]

what are defining mutations does someone have to have every defining mutations of just a few

 

[diverclic]

I won't start a thread on it but we are at the edge of a big change in term of SNP data. The 1000 genomes project collected many new Y SNPs and many are still not included in the ISOGG tree. Geno 2.0 the new chip used by the genographic project is using an unprecedented set of Y SNPs from the 1000 genomes project , from Chris Taylor Smith, From some chinese sequencing and from some Sardinian sequencing (+ those already known). A lot of data a presently accumulating but very little is known on forums such as this one. just to give an idea : at the root of I1 there are presently 24 SNPs (it's a specificity of I1 to have this long list of synonymous SNPs at the root) but with Geno 2.0 this figure should go around 72 SNPs (from partial results) ; at the I2 root there are only 2 SNPs on ISOGG but Geno 2.0 knows 12 (or about -to be confirmed), quite a change.
Why is it related to paleolithic human groups ? SNPs will allow a better estimation of the age of the branches in the Y tree. Presently, I believe that several ages are very inaccurate. By the way I also have some suspicion against the many ancient DNA haplogroup designation.
So, I consider as a possibility that [IJ] was the only Y haplogroup in Europe. As the glaciation isolated Europe IJ had an "in situ" evolution to I (and to J in the middle east). I subsequently split into I1 and I2. This scheme is similar to the mitochondrial U --> U5 --> U5a and U5b with the possibility that U also evolved in U2.
What's above isn't a demonstration of what occurred but it's a demonstration that a "simple" scheme is possible. An in situ evolution of Y-DNA I / mtDNA U would explain a specific european type.