Questions on my Y-DNA Haplogroup T

He is no longer close to me on FTDNA or even shown from 12-25 marker levels. Was he confirmed CTS8862+?
 
KFundora said:
He is no longer close to me on FTDNA or even shown from 12-25 marker levels. Was he confirmed CTS8862+?
Click to expand...

He is close to me ................actually closer than this new one below

[TABLE="class: gv"]
[TR="class: AspNet-GridView-Alternate"]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] Douglas C. Bowen...............

[/TD]
[TD]
note_16x16.gif
Y-DNA67 ................

[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD] T-CTS8862 [/TD]
[TD] .............CTS8862 .............
[/TD]
[TD]11/10/2016[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Sile said:
as of today.............my yfull is still be analysed .........I am IT-TV below

from branch
T-L131S12150 * Y6030/FGC22987 * CTS7239+39 SNPsformed 16000 ybp, TMRCA 11100 ybpinfo
  • T-L131*
      • T-CTS54 Z19926 * Z19902 * CTS6769+26 SNPsformed 6600 ybp, TMRCA 3600 ybpinfo
        • T-CTS54*
          • id:YF06979USA [US-VA]
          • id:NA20758TSI
        • T-CTS8489 CTS10538 * CTS8489 * Z19953+5 SNPsformed 3600 ybp, TMRCA 2600 ybpinfo
          • id:YF07608ITA [IT-TV]new
          • T-CTS8489*
            • id:ERS256892ITA [IT-CA]
          • T-Y17493Y17497 * Y17499 * Y17500+11 SNPsformed 2600 ybp, TMRCA 375 ybpinfo
            • id:YF04232
            • id:YF04203USA [US-NC]
          • T-Z19945Z19945 * CTS1848formed 2600 ybp, TMRCA 2600 ybpinfo
            • id:YF07168BEL [BE-WHT]
            • id:HG01051PUR
            • id:HG01530IBS

I am confirmed positive for Z19945 , same as the bottom group, but I am confirmed negative for CTS1848 , while bottom group are positive for CTS1848.

note: YF are ftdna tested people and HG and ERS are samples tested from written papers
Click to expand...

yfull found 49 new novel SNP's under me .....of which 20 are of "good quality"

and only 1 negative ?................L445

There where many they left as "no call"
 
I saw CTS1848 is an equivalent SNP to Z19945. I am positive for CTS1848 according to FTDNA but I saw in your earlier post that it is "recurrent and unreliable". As for the other FTDNA matches, mine have not been updated and do not go past 25 markers...
 
KFundora said:
I saw CTS1848 is an equivalent SNP to Z19945. I am positive for CTS1848 according to FTDNA but I saw in your earlier post that it is "recurrent and unreliable". As for the other FTDNA matches, mine have not been updated and do not go past 25 markers...
Click to expand...

Yes it is ..............so , Francois Bernot 1617 from Lorraine ............who worked as a cannon maker for the spanish Nertherlands "empire" and who followed these spanish back to iberia and later the new world is both positive Z19945 and CTS1848

I am negative for CTS1848, so Yfull most likely will branch me into a branch off Mr. Bernot into one with Z19945+ and CTS1848-

If you are CTS1848+ , you could also be Z19945 and a match with ancestors of mr.Bernot who went to the new world after the defeat of the spanish in the netherlands................but he is of french and not spanish ancestry
 
Sile said:
He is close to me ................actually closer than this new one below

[TABLE="class: gv"]
[TR="class: AspNet-GridView-Alternate"]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] Douglas C. Bowen............... [/TD]
[TD]
note_16x16.gif
Y-DNA67 ................ [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] T-CTS8862[/TD]
[TD] .............CTS8862 .............[/TD]
[TD]11/10/2016[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...

@Sile, where is the Bowen individual from?
 
KFundora said:
@Sile, where is the Bowen individual from?
Click to expand...

I was given this below as his oldest ancestors

Obadiah Bowen

[TABLE="class: data_table lengthy"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: quiet nowrap"]Birthdate:[/TD]
[TD] September 18, 1627[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: quiet nowrap"]Birthplace:[/TD]
[TD] Glamorganshire, Wales[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


his father was:
Richard Bowen

[TABLE="class: data_table lengthy"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: quiet nowrap"]Birthdate:[/TD]
[TD] circa 1580[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: quiet nowrap"]Birthplace:[/TD]
[TD] Ilston, Glamorganshire, Wales
Died February 4, 1674 in Rehoboth, Plymouth Colony
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: quiet nowrap"][/TD]
[TD]




[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: data_table lengthy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: quiet nowrap"]someone else gave me this:

Owen Bowen

Welsh: Owain Bowen
[TABLE="class: data_table lengthy"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: quiet nowrap"]Birthdate:[/TD]
[TD] 1453[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: quiet nowrap"]Birthplace:[/TD]
[TD] Pentre Ifan Wood, Pembrokeshire, United Kingdom[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: quiet nowrap"]Death:[/TD]
[TD] Died 1481[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Yfull version 5 is released
and I am in a different branch and my TMRCA = 1150BC............Bronze-age collapse period


T-Y6033Y6037/FGC22998/Z19923 * CTS12108 * Y6035/FGC23001/Z19901+19 SNPs formed 11000 ybp, TMRCA 7800 ybpinfo

T-Y6033*
T-CTS933 S24464 * CTS6071 * CTS933+2 SNPs formed 7800 ybp, TMRCA 6800 ybpinfo
T-CTS933*
id:YF04638EGY [EG-ASN]

T-S27463 Y21207 * Y21204 * Y21206+13 SNPs formed 6800 ybp, TMRCA 1600 ybpinfo
id:ERS256891ITA [IT-CA]
id:YF04719IRQ [IQ-BA]

T-CTS54Z19926 * Z19902 * CTS6769+26 SNPs formed 6800 ybp, TMRCA 3700 ybpinfo
T-CTS54*
id:YF06979USA [US-VA]
id:NA20758TSI

T-CTS8489 CTS10538 * CTS8489 * Z19953+5 SNPsformed 3700 ybp, TMRCA 3100 ybpinfo
id:ERS256892ITA [IT-CA]
T-CTS8489*

T-Y17493 Y17497 * Y17499 * Y17500+11 SNPsformed 3100 ybp, TMRCA 375 ybpinfo
id:YF04232
id:YF04203USA [US-NC]

T-Z19945Z 19945 formed 3100 ybp, TMRCA 3100 ybpinfo
T-Z19945*
id:YF07608ITA [IT-TV]

T-CTS1848 CTS1848 formed 3100 ybp, TMRCA 2500 ybpinfo
id:YF07168BEL [BE-WHT]
id:HG01051PUR
id:HG01530IBS

my negative CTS1848 makes me 600 years older than the person with a positive CTS1848


it seems that your T is in Europe from at least 6800 years: "at least", i.e between 7800 and 6800YBP, but perhaps you know that I consider the YFull ages underestimated for an 1.17 factor...

Above from a scholar .............I think this means late Neolithic period ..........or is it middle Neolithic ? ..........taking in consideration YFull estimates
 
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This is interesting news, since I am CTS1848+ based on FTDNA's SNP list I would be placed in the terminal clade with Bernot and the two other Hispanics.

On the T Project, assessing the SNP lists of the members I notice that Bernot, Cockley/Caquelin, and I are the only ones that are CTS1848+. For some reason we are also the only three to have CTS1848 tested for and in our SNP lists...
 
Last edited:
KFundora said:
This is interesting news, since I am CTS1848+ based on FTDNA's SNP list I would be placed in the terminal clade with Bernot and the two other Hispanics.

On the T Project, assessing the SNP lists of the members I notice that Bernot, Cockley/Caquelin, and I are the only ones that are CTS1848+. For some reason we are also the only three to have CTS1848 tested for and in our SNP lists...
Click to expand...

remember that the "HG" are not personal testers, they are from scientific papers

and

Bernot states his ancestors ( they are French ) went with the Spanish after the Spanish lost the Netherlands ............so
bernot - french
caquelin - french
and yourself ?.........I cannot remember what you found



and finally,,,,,my line is 600 years older than Bernot line for TMRCA
 
Last edited:
At KFundora

I have just seen you are classified as CTS1848 ( because you are positive ) same as the french , Bernot person ........... in the renamed branch in YFull ............under me , which I am Z19945

There is still 600 years of TMRCA between us though
 
Sile said:
remember that the "HG" are not personal testers, they are from scientific papers

and

Bernot states his ancestors ( they are French ) went with the Spanish after the Spanish lost the Netherlands ............so
bernot - french
caquelin - french
and yourself ?.........I cannot remember what you found



and finally,,,,,my line is 600 years older than Bernot line for TMRCA
Click to expand...

According to what I have found thus far, my line is most likely Galician-Portuguese in origin... so NW Spain.

It's about 2500 years to the common ancestor of Bernot, Caquelin, the two Hispanic individuals from YFull (science papers, as you said), and I, equaling about 550 BCE.
 
KFundora said:
According to what I have found thus far, my line is most likely Galician-Portuguese in origin... so NW Spain.

It's about 2500 years to the common ancestor of Bernot, Caquelin, the two Hispanic individuals from YFull (science papers, as you said), and I, equaling about 550 BCE.
Click to expand...

I think so as well...........but your line did not come to iberia via the med, but more likely via the danube and central and eastern europe .
 
Sile said:
I think so as well...........but your line did not come to iberia via the med, but more likely via the danube and central and eastern europe .
Click to expand...

I agree. Based on the timings and origin of our surnames/lines, I think it is indicative of being dispersed by Indo-Europeans, maybe Celts or related groups. Requires more research to find out which is most likely...
 
KFundora said:
I agree. Based on the timings and origin of our surnames/lines, I think it is indicative of being dispersed by Indo-Europeans, maybe Celts or related groups. Requires more research to find out which is most likely...
Click to expand...

Subclades statistics [TABLE="class: snp-tbl"]
[TR]
[TD="class: snp-h"] Haplogroup[/TD]
[TD="class: snp-h"]Selected SNP[/TD]
[TD="class: snp-h"]Known SNP[/TD]
[TD="class: snp-h"]Novels[/TD]
[TD="class: snp-h"]Unrounded
age (ybp)[/TD]
[TD="class: snp-h, align: center"]Rounded age (ybp)[/TD]
[TD="class: snp-h, align: center"]Age by all samples (ybp)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd"]
[TD]− T-Z19945[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]3410[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3400 (2200-5100)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3100 (2200-4100)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even"]
[TD]− T-CTS8489[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]3570[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3600 (2300-5300)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3100 (2200-4100)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd"]
[TD]− T-CTS54[/TD]
[TD]27[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]4368[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4400 (3000-6200)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3700 (2900-4700)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even"]
[TD]− T-CTS933[/TD]
[TD]50[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]8037[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8000 (6100-10400)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6800 (5700-7800)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd"]
[TD]− T-Y6033[/TD]
[TD]53[/TD]
[TD]33[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]8516[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8500 (6500-11000)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7800 (6600-9000)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even"]
[TD]− T-L131[/TD]
[TD]64[/TD]
[TD]44[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]10271[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10300 (8000-12900)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]11000 (9700-12500)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd"]
[TD]− T-L206[/TD]
[TD]91[/TD]
[TD]71[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]14578[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14600 (11900-17700)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16000 (14700-17300)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]



I was told I was in Europe from T-Y6033 marker ............I think west of the Urals is Europe and either just North Caucasus or both are designate as europe........maybe someone knows exactly
 
@kf

It states that the important DYS390 which we have #22 .............like all the other european L446 people ...........is that

mine changed from 23 to 22 at 6318 years ago .................I think this is where the call is to be "european" ...............maybe west of the Ural mountains ????


YFull site noted that my full STR numbers will not be ready until June 2017
 
@kf

I spoke to Greco who is with you in the T project..........his ancestors are from Puglia italy


as for myself , I have another match with a ...Gerhard Ludwig Fiedler ...............do you also match with him?
 
@Sile

No, I do not see Fiedler as a match. My FTDNA matches have not changed for a long time and the newest update drastically decreased my list of matches.

I was a little wary of self-designating myself as T-CTS1848. FTDNA has me as T-CTS8862 and the T Project still places me in the unmatched CTS8862 group. My tested SNP list from FTDNA says I'm CTS1848+ but does not include Z19945. YFull has CTS1848 as downstream from Z19945 so I guess I must be positive for it also?
 
KFundora said:
@Sile

No, I do not see Fiedler as a match. My FTDNA matches have not changed for a long time and the newest update drastically decreased my list of matches.

I was a little wary of self-designating myself as T-CTS1848. FTDNA has me as T-CTS8862 and the T Project still places me in the unmatched CTS8862 group. My tested SNP list from FTDNA says I'm CTS1848+ but does not include Z19945. YFull has CTS1848 as downstream from Z19945 so I guess I must be positive for it also?
Click to expand...

thanks.............so since I am negative CTS1848 which according to Yfull , I am 500 years older than your line, you must fit in with a close match with me who is also CTS1848 positive ( same as you ) , his surname is Bernot ( ancestry from eastern france , even though he also states belgium ( walloon )). We have spoken and he traced his lineage to a french family making cannons for the spanish in the spanish netherlands..........the family went with the spanish after the spanish lost the war against the dutch

you should be positive for Z19945


  • T-CTS8489CTS10538 * Z19953 * CTS9984+5 SNPsformed 3700 ybp, TMRCA 3100 ybpinfo
    • id:ERS256892ITA [IT-CA]
    • T-CTS8489*
    • T-Y17493Y17497 * Y17499 * Y17500+11 SNPsformed 3100 ybp, TMRCA 375 ybpinfo
      • id:YF04232 ........................different Knox from ireland
      • id:YF04203USA [US-NC] ............reddick knox from Hesse
    • T-Z19945Z19945formed 3100 ybp, TMRCA 3100 ybpinfo
      • T-Z19945*
        • id:YF07608ITA [IT-TV] ...............me
      • T-CTS1848A15857/CTS1848formed 3100 ybp, TMRCA 2500 ybpinfo
        • id:YF07168BEL [BE-WHT] ................Bernot
        • id:HG01051PUR
        • id:HG01530IBS

you should sit with Bernot


form reddick ancestor below
My Reddicks are German in origin, having had the surname recorded as Radick upon arrival in Savannah, GA in 1737. Back in the Odenwald region of southwest Germany the name had been Rettich / Rettig and a century earlier the family was named Retgen. Rettich is German for the vegetable radish. My suspicion is that the surname changed with circumstances - either a move to where there were already Rettich / Rettig folks residing or else when my Retgen ancestors perhaps took up radish farming.
HG = unnamed samples from a data base
 
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