R1B1A2A1A1B what now?


Junior Member
Reaction score
Y-DNA haplogroup
Df19 df88 Z27258
mtDNA haplogroup
A week ago i received my last DNA deepclade test.
The result was R1B1A2A1A1B. with negative for every other subclade.

As this is a rather old subgroup, does this means that my DNA did not split anymore for the last 5000 j?
Or are there other not tested subs.
Here are the test results:
P312+ P310+ P25+ L51+
L150+ U198- U152- U106- P89.2- P107- M65- M160- M153- M126- L6- L48- L47- L44-
L4- L325- L257- L226- L217- L21- L20- L2- L196- L193- L188- L176.2- L165- L164-
L159.2- L148- L144- L1-

Can anyone tell me how i can gather more data or how i have to proceed to continue my queeste?

Because ,R1B1A2A1A1B gives only a general geographic view, i wonder if there is a way to find out how my ancesters came to the netherlands (Sint-Michielsgestel - Berlicum -oldest known 1600), over the Alps (italic celts)or by France .

As this is a rather old subgroup, does this means that my DNA did not split anymore for the last 5000 j?
Or are there other not tested subs.

There are a few known ones that you haven't tested. The most useful for you would probably be DF19, which peaks in frequency around the Benelux (IIRC). I forget if there's any Z196* currently known... if there is, Z196 might also be useful to test, because you only tested its subclades, M153 and L176.2. Another interesting possibility is the rather Nordic L238 marker. See also Maciamo's R1b tree.
Thomas Krahn's draft tree of the R haplogroup was updated a week ago to include some results of newly testable SNPs in the North/South Cluster side of Z196, for which Pvg1949 was not tested (with the single exception of M153). Those that are new, and specific to Z196, are Z209, Z220 and Z278. Look for them here:

Several more new SNPs are available (on both sides of Z196 -- if indeed it only has two sides, which may not be the case) and a few people have tested for them; but their place on the tree remains a little speculative, until there are confirmed positives and negatives. The ones to watch for include Z268, Z262, Z198, Z216 and Z214. (Also DF17, I guess.) Another new SNP for which the test needs to be run twice -- so they have to charge more, and haven't figured out how to do that (last time I looked) -- is DF27. This SNP is the parent of Z196 and of Z225. When it gets placed on the tree, Z196 will be bumped down a level.

It's also considered possible that another, as yet undiscovered SNP may unite L21 and DF19. The SNPs under P312 are being reordered and refined with current testing of many new SNPs, most of which were discovered within the past year -- principally, but not exclusively, through the 1000 Genomes project. Development of primers and a reliable lab test for each of these new SNPs is a time consuming, and continuing, process.
Hi again,
I just received the result of the DF19 test.
It is positive.
So the full testline is:

P312+ P310+ P25+ L51+
L150+ DF19+ U198- U152- U106- P89.2- P107- M65- M160- M153- M126- L6- L48- L47-
L44- L4- L325- L257- L226- L217- L21- L20- L2- L196- L193- L188- L176.2- L165-
L164- L159.2- L148- L144- L1-

My oldest ancester nown is Andreas Gerardi Andries, who lived in Sint Michielsgestel, Netherlands, and was born there in 1600.
Perhaps this helps to find the origins of the DF19 tribe,


Hi again,
I just received the result of the DF19 test.
It is positive.

Great! That's a pretty specific group. ISOGG lists one more SNP below it, but I'm not sure if that's worth testing. You may want to search for others who have tested DF19 or know more about it, to see if there's anything useful left to do.
I tested as R1b1a2a1a1b (R-P312). I tested negative for U106, I am waiting for results for U152 (FTDNA 8 wks and counting). I tested U106 because my name is prominent in areas the Longobards (Lombards) ruled. This is especially true in the Italian provinces of Benevento and Salerno. A variation of my name is located in the regions of Piemonte and Lombardia, again areas of strength for the Longobards. In these provinces, the name is Goglio (note the Pope's name is Bergoglio). Goglia can also be found in the area of Trieste. In Slovenia and Croatia (Istria), the spelling is Slavic, Golja. All these areas were places of strength for the Longobards. I tested U152 (Italo-Celtic) because the Celts were in Fruili when the Longobards invaded Italy. I have read they were allies. In order to cover all bases, a fellow Italian with the same last name as mine tested for L21 (North Atlantic) which appears to be the location of most of the R1b1a2a1a1b Hgroup. Although U152 is more prominent in the North of Italy, it does extend into the south (Campania). I referred to a map on the Eupedia web page
You should test for R1b-U152 deffinetly or R1b-L21; if you come from Piemont or a region near the French border such as Liguria; there is 20% R1b-P312* in these regions so you may be a basal P-312* but being italian there are much higher odds of you having the R-S28 mutation as well.
Hi there,

Just like our Belgian comrade I was tested positive for P312 (I dealt with Igenea for my DNA analyses) over 67 markers but unlike him everything else came back negative. What do you suggest I do to try and find out more about about my paternal line ? In other words, are there any recently uncovered SNPs I should look into to make progress ?

In order for you to get a clearer picture of my results, here are the numbers I got from FTDNA:

L23+, L49+, P310+, P311+, P312+, L1-, L176.2-, L21-, L48-, M153-, M65-, SRY2627-, U152-

I thank all of you in advance for your input as I am at a loss to see what direction to take.


Makes sense, you're from France, you are R-P312* with zero downstream mutations....what's the problem? You are negative for L21 and S28. P312* represents the vast majority of Spanish and Portuguese R1b (75+%) and about 45% of French R1b.
Thanks for contributing an answer, Adamo. However I may have been unclear regarding the motives of my question(s). It is not that I find it strange to be R-P312 only that, considering the 'many' subgroups branching off the P312 root, I thought there was a chance the analysis performed of my sample did not reveal everything as it was done about four years ago and some branches were defined since.

Now in terms of proto-historic people, can I consider myself of proto-celtic or proto-italic stock, or is it more complicated than that?
A lot of people with p312* call themselves "Celt-Iberians", basically those celts that dominated Spain and Portugal. Half of R1b men descend from the basal branch as well. It's considered the Italo-Celtic branch as opposed to the R-S21 Germanic celts. Both l21 (dominates Ireland and present in Scotland, Wales, lower % England) and alpine S28 (found in 20% of French males and dominates Swiss and italian R1b) are downstream mutations of it, with l21 being the youngest derivative.
In Spain for example, about 65-75% of men are R1b, of which 75% or more belongs to your subtype. Portugal has 55-60% R1b, with a similar amount of P312*. In France, about 50% of R1b is P312*. Frequencies become insignificant after that pretty much on national levels.
Sorry new to site and lost I have tested positive M253+, I-L22+

and tested negative for; M21 -M227 -M72-P259 - P109 - L258- L287- L300- Z74, -L205,

any ideas for origin location? If you can direct me to correct forum, cheers ta!
Well anyways 35-45% of French R1b is P312*. R-S28 is Gallic in origin. Found in 1 of 2 Swiss men and a third of men from Lichtenstein. It's very heavy in Italy with a northern bias (ancient Gallia cisalpina). In Brescia (extreme north and center) 50% of men have it and 50% of men from Cuneo (Piedmont) are positive for this marker as well. As we head towards the center and eventually the south, the frequencies drop off dramatically. One can basically postulate that half of north-central italian men are R-S28. R-L21 (youngest branch) basically dominates Ireland with 75% of men from the island belonging to it, if not slightly more. It's very present in Scotland and Wales as well (65-45%) and at lower frequencies in England (30-40%). The Bretagne province of France oddly is the only region of continental Europe with high frequencies (up to 40%). Once we leave this general region the rest of frNce has 5-10% and same for nearby countries (if not, even less). Basal P312* is very rare in Italy (5-10%) as in Germany and the rest of Europe that isn't mentioned as Iberian peninsula + France.
Gypsy rider, You are positive for I1d. It probably originated on the Germany/Denmark border, just south of Scandinavia. It is a north European haplogroup. As we know of course I1a is the typical Scandinav marker found in many Norwegian and swedish men today. Yours is a different subclade of course, but I1 tends to have a Nordic distribution. I varieties are quite rare in Ireland (8-10%) as opposed to England for example (20-25%).
Last edited:
Also, your mtdna I is extremely rare although it is postulated to have a north European distribution as well; not much is known about this branch as of now.
In terms of I-L22 (I1d) the typical suspects in clustering projects that come up are males from Norway, Sweden, Finland + England, Ireland to a lesser degree. You'll get some rare Denmark, France or Ireland every now and then too. Has a very north European/ Scandinavian distribution bias. I think we can safely assume the Finns inherited it from their Scandinavian neighbours just to the west.
Hello All, i ordered some extra snp tests and here are the results:
DF19+, DF88+, L150+, L51+, P25+, P310+, P312+, L1-, L144-, L148-, L159.2-, L164-, L165-, L176.2-, L188-, L193-, L196-, L2-, L20-, L21-, L217-, L226-, L257-, L325-, L4-, L44-, L47-, L48-, L6-, M126-, M153-, M160-, M65-, P107-, P89.2-, U106-, U152-, U198-, Z302-
This means i am also DF88+
Does this means that my ancesters had scandinavian roots also? My oldest ancester lived already in the Sint Michielsgestel,Netherlands in 1270.
When i compare my 67 markers with all the other P 312 people , the closest distance i can find is 15 ( a person named Parker -UK). Is'nt this an unusual large distance ?


This thread has been viewed 27408 times.