Serbs and Croats origin from Germanic Scirii and Hirri?

Lol Nordic warbler. an opposing king from another kingdom asks, "who is your leader?" Upon learning a new concept and seeing a new opportunity the vikings looked at each other: Me-mE-ME!-Me!ME! They all began yelling and fighting , forever after divided , that would be funny
 
Yetos said:
I have reasons to believe that Ostrogoths at least in name are the same with Austro+Goths in Germanic O(f)ster.
Click to expand...

Don't you think that the name is artificial? Ostrogoths could not call themselves Ostrogoths, as this would be illogical.
 
adamo said:
Lol Nordic warbler. an opposing king from another kingdom asks, "who is your leader?" Upon learning a new concept and seeing a new opportunity the vikings looked at each other: Me-mE-ME!-Me!ME! They all began yelling and fighting , forever after divided , that would be funny
Click to expand...

They didn't fight one another in this story (that I know of)... they were more perplexed that one man could be considered "higher" than another. I have that same mindset. Must be genetic.
 
Last edited:
al-kochol said:
Don't you think that the name is artificial? Ostrogoths could not call themselves Ostrogoths, as this would be illogical.
Click to expand...

why?
do you believe that Austrians call themshelves Austers before?
Oster means outer, who will call him shelf as an outer?

but in early IE simmilar sound ment Eastern, Εως - (Eus, Asia)
Compare that with Visigoths, means West Goths (weiss+goth)
Northern or black ( Noir, North, Norge)
South or Red (Ερυθρος, rouge) Rus (Varrangians)

if you also put that White for example Serbia means West Sesbia, then you have sound connection and misunderstood through times of West Serbia.
Weiss-Wes-Vest

I don't think that Austrian wanted to call them shelves as outers or outer kingdom,
rather than the name comes from Eastern as East Kingdom, or Eastern tribes, or Eastern Goths.

so the explanation of Osterreich as outer kingdom yes it is artificial cause fits with Modern languages,
BUT IT IS PURE if you explain it with older sounds as Easterners (Eastgoths-(Εωσ(τηρ)+Γοτθ)- AusterGoth-Ostrogoth)
 
One problem for the people who claim that I2a Dinaric came from Moldova/Ukraine region is the relatively low presence of Haplogroup Q in areas where I has high frequencies. Q should allow us to test migration patterns from 400AD+ if we assume that Q arrived to the black sea via the Huns.

Thus I2a was not brought to Balkans via the Black sea any time after 400AD. The diversity models that indicate Moldova as a I2a hotspot are meaningless.

Of course i believe that Croats are a R1a people and that the indigenous Balkan Illyrians were I2a. Thus, areas where the highest amount of geographic isolation occur are all hotspots for I2a. Dalmatia, Neretva and Bosna were all refugee areas for I2a because they present the most difficult terrain for gene flow/invasion.

We cannot know for certain who the indigenous people were until actual bones are found and sequenced. Eventually it should not be a mystery.
 
Last edited:
Yetos said:
why?
do you believe that Austrians call themshelves Austers before?
Oster means outer, who will call him shelf as an outer?
Click to expand...
First of all Ost in German means East. Austria is a new name for the state formed on the east from Germany. In fact the name is Österreich. Czechs and Slovaks call Austria Rakousko and they are genetically related to Austrian people more than the Germans are.
 
Germanics account for about 30% of Austrians(R1b) . Another 30% or so percent are R1a these are the two dominant Austrian haplogroups. This makes Austria a predominantly celto-Slavic country.
 
al-kochol said:
First of all Ost in German means East. Austria is a new name for the state formed on the east from Germany. In fact the name is Österreich. Czechs and Slovaks call Austria Rakousko and they are genetically related to Austrian people more than the Germans are.
Click to expand...

Austrains are originally bavarians...there was no austrians before 1000AD

language is nearly the same
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavarian_language#Samples_of_Bavarian_and_Austrian

Bavarians are the last to become Germanic ...........What where they in the ancient times?

The Bavarians emerged in a region north of the Alps, originally inhabited by the Celts, which had been part of the Roman provinces of Raetia and Noricum. The Bavarians spoke Old High German but, unlike other Germanic groups, probably did not migrate from elsewhere. Rather, they seem to have coalesced out of other groups left behind by Roman withdrawal late in the 5th century. These peoples may have included the Celtic Boii, some remaining Romans, Marcomanni, Allemanni, Quadi, Thuringians, Goths, Scirians, Rugians, Heruli. The name "Bavarian" ("Baiuvarii") means "Men of Baia" which may indicate Bohemia, the homeland of the Celtic Boii
 
Within The 30 or so percent% of R1b that is Austrian, most of it is R-S21. Austrians received Germanic influence from north-central Germans that came south into Bavarian areas long ago and also they have about (30% ) R1a that radiated from nearby places such as Slovenia, Hungary, etc.
 
adamo said:
Within The 30 or so percent% of R1b that is Austrian, most of it is R-S21. Austrians received Germanic influence from north-central Germans that came south into Bavarian areas long ago and also they have about (30% ) R1a that radiated from nearby places such as Slovenia, Hungary, etc.
Click to expand...

The R1a and I ...the ancient line came from the goths, scirri, heruli and rugii.......if what they say of the rugii being west norwegian people, then they definitely had I HG
The other are all ancient west-baltic people ( r1a and I )

We need to remember there was very little germanic people south of the danube river while the Roamn empire was around
 
adamo said:
Within The 30 or so percent% of R1b that is Austrian, most of it is R-S21. Austrians received Germanic influence from north-central Germans that came south into Bavarian areas long ago and also they have about (30% ) R1a that radiated from nearby places such as Slovenia, Hungary, etc.
Click to expand...

Bavarians have actually more R1b (50%) than the rest of Germany.
 
al-kochol said:
First of all Ost in German means East. Austria is a new name for the state formed on the east from Germany. In fact the name is Österreich. Czechs and Slovaks call Austria Rakousko and they are genetically related to Austrian people more than the Germans are.
Click to expand...

Aus means outer,
remember 'terra ingognita australis'

is Austria East of Germany? comparing Bayern yes but is it? the East of Germany or East kingdom name should be given to Prussia which is East of Germany, so it not Artificial name
rather an old inner name,

same with that Ostrogoths means East Goths, and VissiGoths means West Goths,

so goths were far East than modern Deutschland, no matter Gothing mainly are spoken today in Deutschland,

that is the reason that I believe that west European R1b has nothing to do with Germanic speaking populations,
 
El horsto is right, western and southern Germany have the highest R1b frequencies 50% or so percent whereas in northern and eastern Germany the levels are more like 35% or so. Zanipolo its very possible that Austria received genetic influx from Norwegian I1a people's as Austrians have 10% I1a but its more likely some I1a sweeped into Austria from Germany along with much of the countries R1b as I1a is still far from a dominant haplogroup on a national level, I doubt, in fact even know, according to the I1a percentages, that Scandinavians probably very lightly influenced Austrians.
 
Last edited:
carinthia borders Slovenia : )
 
Yetos said:
Aus means outer,
remember 'terra ingognita australis'

is Austria East of Germany? comparing Bayern yes but is it? the East of Germany or East kingdom name should be given to Prussia which is East of Germany, so it not Artificial name
rather an old inner name,

same with that Ostrogoths means East Goths, and VissiGoths means West Goths,

so goths were far East than modern Deutschland, no matter Gothing mainly are spoken today in Deutschland,

that is the reason that I believe that west European R1b has nothing to do with Germanic speaking populations,
Click to expand...

I see, high school teaching in Greece is in crisis, alongside the economy. Aus means out in German, but the name of Austria is in fact Oesterreich (i.e. Eastern State). Im Jahr 976 entstand die älteste Ländereinheit auf dem Boden der heutigen Republik Österreich in der Form des selbständigen Herzogtums Kärnten. Im selben Jahr wurde die Marcha Orientalis, eine östliche Grenzmark des Bayrischen Herzogtums, von Kaiser Otto II. einem Babenberger-Grafen übereignet. Die Marcha Orientalis wurde darin erstmals Ostarrîchi genannt; Aussprache und Schreibweise wandelten sich später zu Österreich.
Terra Australis (meaning "South Land") is in Latin.
 
Yetos said:
why?
do you believe that Austrians call themshelves Austers before?
Oster means outer, who will call him shelf as an outer?

but in early IE simmilar sound ment Eastern, Εως - (Eus, Asia)
Compare that with Visigoths, means West Goths (weiss+goth)
Northern or black ( Noir, North, Norge)
South or Red (Ερυθρος, rouge) Rus (Varrangians)

if you also put that White for example Serbia means West Sesbia, then you have sound connection and misunderstood through times of West Serbia.
Weiss-Wes-Vest

I don't think that Austrian wanted to call them shelves as outers or outer kingdom,
rather than the name comes from Eastern as East Kingdom, or Eastern tribes, or Eastern Goths.

so the explanation of Osterreich as outer kingdom yes it is artificial cause fits with Modern languages,
BUT IT IS PURE if you explain it with older sounds as Easterners (Eastgoths-(Εωσ(τηρ)+Γοτθ)- AusterGoth-Ostrogoth)
Click to expand...

PIE. *wēsu- "good" → PG. *iusijaz *iusizô "good" → Got. *iusi- iusiza "good, worthy, noble" → Lat. wisi wesi
PIE. *wes- "to shine" → PG. *westą "west" → Got. wistr "west"
PIE. *ner- "below, under" → PG. *nurþą "north"
→ Got. naurþr "north"
→ ON. norðr → norðvegr "north-way" → Norge
​
PIE. *nokʷ- "night" → Lat. niger "black" → Fr. noir "black"
PIE. *sāwel- "sun" → PG. *sunþaz "south"
PIE. *reudʰ- "red"
→ PG. *raudaz "red"
​
→ Lat. rubeus "red" → Fr. rogue "red"
→ Grk. ἐρυθρός "red"
​
PIE. *erə- "to row; oar" → PG. *rōþruz "oar, rudder" → ON. róðr "rowing" → Byz. Grk. οί Ῥῶς → Rus. Русь
cf. Fi. Ruotsi "Sweden"
​
PIE. *ḱʷeyt- "to shine; bright" → PG. *hwītaz "white" → OHG. wīz "white" → Ger. weiss
PIE. *awes- "to shine" → PG. *austą "east" → OHG. *ost → ostar → Lat. austria

Hitt. aššuwa "northwest Anatolia" → Myc. Grk. aswiyā → Grk. άσία

There's about fifty-leven things wrong with your supposed "etymologies" ...

:useless:
 
how yes no 3 said:
1) Pliny the Elder - Historia Naturalis

Scirii and Hirri live next to Venedi and Sarmatians... in fact, there is a note that Parisot believes that they are tribes of Slavic Venedi

"This gulf, which has the name of the 'Codanian,' is filled with islands; the most famous among which is Scandinavia...
it is generally supposed that the island of Eningia20 is of not less magnitude.
Some writers state that these regions,as far as the river Vistula, are inhabited by the Sarmati, theVenedi21, the Sciri, and the Hirri22, and that there is a gulf there known by the name of Cylipenus23, at the mouth of which is the island of Latris, after which comes another gulf, that of Lagnus,which borders on the Cimbri.


20 By Eningia Hardouin thinks that thecountry of modern Finland is

21 Parisot is of opinion that theVenedi, also called Vinidæ and Vindili, were of Sclavish origin,and situate on the shores of the Baltic. He remarks that this people,in the fifth century, founded in Pomerania, when quitted by the Goths, a kingdom, the chiefs of which styled themselves the Konjucsof Vinland. Their name is also to be found in Venden, a Russian town in the government of Riga, in Windenburg in Courland, and in Wendenin the circle of the Grand Duchy of Mecklenburg Schwerin.

22 Parisot remarks that these two peoples were probably only tribes of the Venedi."

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper...999.02.0137:book=4:chapter=27&highlight=sciri



it is suggested that Scirii and Hirri are tribes of Sclavish Venedi




2) De Administrando imperio - the only historic source talking about settling of Serbs and Croats on Balkan


http://books.google.nl/books?id=3al...en&sa=X&ei=vA5gUZftE9Cr0AWp84DgBw&redir_esc=y


"The Serbs are descended from the unbaptized Serbs, also called 'white', who live beyond Turkeyin a place called by them Boiki, where their neighbour is Francia, as is also Great Croatia, the unbaptized, also called 'white': in this place, then, these Serbs also originally dwelt. "


note in time of writing "Turkey"is land of Turkic Avars - Hungary of modern days
Boiki is Bohemia, land of Boii


both Serbs and Croats were called "white"...
celtic *windo = white

point is they were called "Venedi" and writer used its Celtic meaning being "white"... those Serbs and Croats were called Venedi as they were part of Venedi tribes....with respect to 1) where notable tribes of Sclavisch Venedi are Scirii and Hirri, I think that Serbs and Croats might have been known in their early history as Scirii and Hirri


in fact just north of Boiki is east Germany area where even today small Slavic ethnic minority cariesname of Lusatians/Sorbs/Wends...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbs

3) genetic argument

Scirii and Hirri are also believed to have been east Germanic tribes... this may be about their origin ....note that Serbs and Croats are not R1a dominant like other Slavic people but I2a dominant... while Germanic people are characterized by related I1 and I2b clades

in fact I2a-Dinaric South is very typical of Serbs and to some extent Croats...it is very young clade which allows us to relate it to historic movements of tribes...
if we look map of I2a-Dinaric south
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/I2aHapGroup/default.aspx?section=ymap



besides Serb settled areas we can notice:
a) island in Bohemia or Boiki
we know that Serbs came from there
but we also know they came to therefrom somewhere more to the east....
b) island in south Poland extending to central Ukraine (Galicia) – lower Vistula
c) island in north east Poland(Baltic) – upper Vistula
d) two isolated spots on north shoresof Asia minor
e) set of isolated spots in Germany –from Zurich to Hamburg

now let us look at movements of Scirii



  • originated somewhere in Germany (perhaps Bavaria – Munich to Zurich area and moved to north as trend marked as e) suggests... note that De Administrando imperio mentions that Serbs also originally dwellt in Bohemia...
  • lived in Baltic area in upper Vistula from 300 BC to 150 AD
    http://ethnohistory.verbix.com/Sciri/#locref7
    this is exactly I2a-Din south area marked with c) above
  • located in Galicia (lower Vistula) from 150 AD till 409 AD, which exactly matches the island of I2a-Dinaric marked as b) above
    http://ethnohistory.verbix.com/Sciri/#locref7
  • captured Scirii were settled by Byzantium on sea coasts of Asia minor (Bythinia), where whole settlements of them existed
    http://books.google.nl/books?id=MSP...8Q6AEwBjge#v=onepage&q=Sciri germanic&f=false
    this relates to isolated spots on coasts of Asia minor marked above as d)...
  • last record of Scirii is that they were settled in east Slovakia where they are recorded to live from 409AD to 450 AD... now with arrival of Avars all tribes moved a bit away from Avars...for Scirii this must have meant moving to west which clearly brings them to Bohemia
    http://ethnohistory.verbix.com/Sciri/#locref7


'
Click to expand...

Are you serious? :rolleyes2:
Serbs and Croats Germanic origin?:useless:
Not Russian, or Slavic?
This forum has degenerated beyond repair, I swear!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top