Share Your IllustrativeDNA results Ancient and Modern

qh777 · Dec 1, 2023

Who Cares? said:
Strange how your fitness rate is so low. I think any distance higher than 2.0 - 2.5 is telling that there is something else in the mix, which is not accounted by the ancient samples in their database.

I think that going above 3-3.5 (still undecided about the range) or in G25 vahaduo 0.03-0.035 could mean admix with something else or higher end of what fits in the population. 0.04-0.05 is related but may not fit in the population. here is why I think that:

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]French_Pas-de-Calais:French23862[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.03013201[/TD]
[TD]France_Sarrebourg_LateAntiquity.SG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.03476425[/TD]
[TD]France_EBA_BellBeaker[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.03841662[/TD]
[TD]France_Medieval_o[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.06822565[/TD]
[TD]France_Sarrebourg_LateAntiquity_oLevant.SG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.14401623[/TD]
[TD]France_GrandEst_EBA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.17509228[/TD]
[TD]France_EBA_BellBeaker_oEEF[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]French_Paris:93[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.02066203[/TD]
[TD]France_Sarrebourg_LateAntiquity.SG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.03405552[/TD]
[TD]France_EBA_BellBeaker[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.04510967[/TD]
[TD]France_Medieval_o[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.06582540[/TD]
[TD]France_Sarrebourg_LateAntiquity_oLevant.SG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.13209651[/TD]
[TD]France_GrandEst_EBA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.15944508[/TD]
[TD]France_EBA_BellBeaker_oEEF[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]French_Paris:83[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.03447199[/TD]
[TD]France_Sarrebourg_LateAntiquity.SG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.04496807[/TD]
[TD]France_EBA_BellBeaker[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.05126837[/TD]
[TD]France_Medieval_o[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.06373261[/TD]
[TD]France_Sarrebourg_LateAntiquity_oLevant.SG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.12613725[/TD]
[TD]France_GrandEst_EBA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.15070493[/TD]
[TD]France_EBA_BellBeaker_oEEF[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]French_Paris:77[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.03375806[/TD]
[TD]France_Sarrebourg_LateAntiquity.SG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.03720136[/TD]
[TD]France_EBA_BellBeaker[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.04301793[/TD]
[TD]France_Medieval_o[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.07063864[/TD]
[TD]France_Sarrebourg_LateAntiquity_oLevant.SG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.12985201[/TD]
[TD]France_GrandEst_EBA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.16128993[/TD]
[TD]France_EBA_BellBeaker_oEEF[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]French_Nord:N_34[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.02234017[/TD]
[TD]France_Sarrebourg_LateAntiquity.SG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.03162713[/TD]
[TD]France_EBA_BellBeaker[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.04073015[/TD]
[TD]France_Medieval_o[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.06225231[/TD]
[TD]France_Sarrebourg_LateAntiquity_oLevant.SG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.13303627[/TD]
[TD]France_GrandEst_EBA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.16038801[/TD]
[TD]France_EBA_BellBeaker_oEEF[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]French_Nord:N_33[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.02809168[/TD]
[TD]France_Sarrebourg_LateAntiquity.SG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.03272067[/TD]
[TD]France_EBA_BellBeaker[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.04056172[/TD]
[TD]France_Medieval_o[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.05560195[/TD]
[TD]France_Sarrebourg_LateAntiquity_oLevant.SG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.13918639[/TD]
[TD]France_GrandEst_EBA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.16731714[/TD]
[TD]France_EBA_BellBeaker_oEEF[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]French_Nord:N_28[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.02591685[/TD]
[TD]France_Sarrebourg_LateAntiquity.SG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.04201214[/TD]
[TD]France_EBA_BellBeaker[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.04851569[/TD]
[TD]France_Medieval_o[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.06219514[/TD]
[TD]France_Sarrebourg_LateAntiquity_oLevant.SG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.12313646[/TD]
[TD]France_GrandEst_EBA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.14899655[/TD]
[TD]France_EBA_BellBeaker_oEEF[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]French_Nord:N_22[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.03296224[/TD]
[TD]France_Sarrebourg_LateAntiquity.SG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.04045639[/TD]
[TD]France_EBA_BellBeaker[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.04861435[/TD]
[TD]France_Medieval_o[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.07164652[/TD]
[TD]France_Sarrebourg_LateAntiquity_oLevant.SG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.14786534[/TD]
[TD]France_GrandEst_EBA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.17513503[/TD]
[TD]France_EBA_BellBeaker_oEEF[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

These modern French individuals score between 0.038-0.051 with the medieval French sample. I was a bit surprised when I saw the numbers. I was expecting 0.015, 0.02, 0.025.

This is what one modern French individual scores against averaged modern samples from France:

Distance to:	French_Paris:83
0.03152947	French_Paris
0.03543509	French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03545604	French_Nord

qh777 · Dec 1, 2023

Here is another example. I have a few modern Irish individuals and I'm comparing them to an averaged modern Irish sample.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]Irish:Irish4[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.03275190[/TD]
[TD]Irish[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]Irish:Irish39[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.02184945[/TD]
[TD]Irish[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]Irish:Irish38[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.04100918[/TD]
[TD]Irish[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]Irish:Irish37[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.02163742[/TD]
[TD]Irish[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]Irish:Irish36[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.03454189[/TD]
[TD]Irish[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]Irish:Irish35[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0.03144906[/TD]
[TD]Irish[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Norway same thing individuals vs. average:

Distance to:	Norwegian:NOR152
0.02446509	Norwegian

Distance to:	Norwegian:NOR150
0.03406155	Norwegian

Distance to:	Norwegian:NOR109
0.02864006	Norwegian

Distance to:	Norwegian:NOR108
0.01697708	Norwegian

Distance to:	Norwegian:NOR107
0.02410696	Norwegian

Distance to:	Norwegian:NOR106
0.03082302	Norwegian

Who Cares? · Dec 1, 2023

I don't think so @qh777
I get on more than a couple calculators distance between 2.0 and 3.0 for Montenegro (results closer to 2), but on most between 3.0 and 4.0, and I definitevely don't have recent Montenegro ancestry.
So I think everything above 2 is a sign of distant other ancestry

qh777 · Dec 1, 2023

Who Cares? said:
I don't think so @qh777
I get on more than a couple calculators distance between 2.0 and 3.0 for Montenegro (results closer to 2), but on most between 3.0 and 4.0, and I definitevely don't have recent Montenegro ancestry.
So I think everything above 2 is a sign of distant other ancestry

Illustrative Says in the FAQ you can get good fits that aren’t one’s specific ethnicity

DrWh033 · Dec 2, 2023

1	Greek (Central Macedonia)	2.905
2	Greek (Central Greece)	3.464
3	Greek (East Macedonia and Thrace)	3.499
4	North Macedonian	3.560
5	Gagauz	3.561
6	Albanian	3.621
7	Greek (Peloponnese)	3.669
8	Balkan Turk (Thessaly)	3.965
9	Italian (Marche)	4.065
10	Greek (Thessaly)	4.099
11	Balkan Turk (North Macedonia)	4.240
12	Italian (Piedmont)	4.243
13	Italian (Molise)	4.327
14	Italian (Liguria)	4.363
15	Italian (Tuscany)	4.428
16	Italian (Abruzzo)	4.428
17	Italian (Apulia)	4.433
18	Italian (Umbria)	4.579
19	Swiss (Italian)	4.642
20	Bulgarian	4.674
21	Italian (Lombardy)	4.784
22	Italian (Lazio)	4.848
23	Sicilian (East)	4.931
24	Italian (Basilicata)	4.944
25	Balkan Turk (Central Macedonia)	4.951
26	Ashkenazi Jew (Ukraine)	4.990
27	Ashkenazi Jew (Russia)	5.061
28	Italian (Friuli Venezia Giulia)	5.069
29	Italian (Veneto)	5.074
30	Cretan Turk	5.084

I am from Greece, Central greece-Thessaly ( which is confirmed with a very short distance in Gedmatch).

qh777 · Dec 3, 2023

this is another reason why I think 3-3.5 or 0.03-0.035 should count as fitting within the population. I asked someone on youtube that made a video on how to use G25 vahaduo and he was saying 0.01-0.03.
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]Greek (Central Greece)[/TD]
[TD]3.464[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

qh777 · Dec 3, 2023

I never shared the map for my results in my original post

qh777 · Dec 5, 2023

Got the notification from Illustrative yesterday that ancient mixed mode Middle Ages (period 4) is ready.
I'll share my top 5 2-way and a couple 3-way results from both kits.

MyHeritage Raw data:

qh777 · Dec 5, 2023

Ancestry shows similar results for the most part. There are a few exceptions.

3-way:

1.Number one was the same as Myheritage.

qh777 · Dec 8, 2023

There are new samples that I match added on Illustrativedna. Many are listed in the 2 and 3-way from my previous two posts I'll share my distance to these individual samples. I'm only sharing good (green) to medium fit (orange) matches. I'll repost my to date number one match (green text) for reference.

#1 Insular Celt (Dobunni)

400–1 BC
2.279

Medieval Gael (Roscommon)

AD 600–1300
2.549

Medieval Schleswig

AD 1070–1210
2.643

Medieval Frisian (Groningen)

AD 775–1155
2.906

Pre-Christian Gael (Iceland)

AD 870–1000
3.044

Republic of Metz

AD 1298–1395
3.132

Continental Celt (Eastern Gaul)

500–100 BC
3.150

Post-Medieval Faroese

AD 1500–1700
3.201

Medieval Dane (Zealand)

AD 1050–1250
3.287

Medieval Jamt (Frösön)

AD 1016–1262
3.340

West European Crusader (Sidon)

AD 1191–1283
3.505

Medieval Breton (Quiberon)

AD 1228–1285
3.542

Who Cares? · Dec 8, 2023

My top 10:

Closest Ancient Samples

Genetic Distance

1. Post-Medieval Albanian

AD 1400–1700
2.692

2. Roman Pannonian

AD 240–400
2.818

3. Post-Medieval Greek Mainlander (Roopkund)

AD 1803–1811
3.307

4. Medieval South Slav (Danubian Plain)

AD 1000–1250
3.358

5. South Illyrian

700–250 BC
3.486

6. Paeonian

750–100 BC
3.486

7. North Illyrian

750–1 BC
3.679

8. Roman Dalmatian

AD 100–520
3.708

9. Christophorus Corvinus (Hunyadi Family)

AD 1499–1505
3.855

10. Medieval Central Italian (Tarquinia)

AD 729–1151
3.983

Stuvanè · Dec 8, 2023

My middle age combos

Stefano · Dec 8, 2023

Here are mine for comparison.

Stuvanè, i am curious about your bronze and iron age mixed result. Can you show them?

qh777 · Dec 8, 2023

Stuvanè said:
My middle age combos

View attachment 14617

Stuvane are you from central Italy?

Stuvanè · Dec 9, 2023

Stefano said:
Here are mine for comparison.
View attachment 14619

View attachment 14620

Stuvanè, i am curious about your bronze and iron age mixed result. Can you show them?

@Stefano

Here are the remaining oracles.

Frankly - apart from the one dedicated to the Middle Ages - I appreciate more the one on the 2 way Bronze Age (it can give a rough indication of the Neolithic and Steppic components) and the 2/3 way on the Roman Age.

I don't consider the Iron Age one realistic.

Stuvanè · Dec 9, 2023

qh777 said:
Stuvane are you from central Italy?

@qh777
Not really.
Let's say more correctly northern-central Italy (Romagna and eastern Emilia: mainly Rimini/Forlì + Ferrara)

Stefano · Dec 9, 2023

Thank you Stuvanè. Mine are pretty similar.

I don't think that the Iron Age ones are too bad, actually, maybe a bit compressed but a good synthesis of northern italian.
Probably in a 2 way model the early italic, etruscan and germanic are all lumped in continental celtic and the greek and imperial roman in the other half.

Stuvanè · Dec 9, 2023

Stefano said:
Thank you Stuvanè. Mine are pretty similar.

View attachment 14639

View attachment 14640

I don't think that the Iron Age ones are too bad, actually, maybe a bit compressed but a good synthesis of northern italian.
Probably in a 2 way model the early italic, etruscan and germanic are all lumped in continental celtic and the greek and imperial roman in the other half.

That may be, but my very strong doubt is that autosomal estimate determined by c. 50% Celt and c. 50% Greek and/or Anatolian and/or Levant. However much the Roman Empire created the conditions for the influx of people from the eastern Mediterranean, I don't believe that Italians in general but especially North Italians can be shaped by a simple combination of continental Celts/Germans + Greeks and/or Levantines. The picture is too simplistic and does not take into account the previous indigenous population, which I don't think has been erased.
Without forgetting that the G25 - what is behind these oracles - has sometimes sampled with questionable criteria, or even bypassed the sampling of certain populations (including, for example, Emilia-Romagna where I come from). And at that point strange averages are created

Vallicanus · Dec 9, 2023

Stuvanè said:
That may be, but my very strong doubt is that autosomal estimate determined by c. 50% Celt and c. 50% Greek and/or Anatolian and/or Levant. However much the Roman Empire created the conditions for the influx of people from the eastern Mediterranean, I don't believe that Italians in general but especially North Italians can be shaped by a simple combination of continental Celts/Germans + Greeks and/or Levantines. The picture is too simplistic and does not take into account the previous indigenous population, which I don't think has been erased.
Without forgetting that the G25 - what is behind these oracles - has sometimes sampled with questionable criteria, or even bypassed the sampling of certain populations (including, for example, Emilia-Romagna where I come from). And at that point strange averages are created

Emilia-Romagna is shamefully neglected in these G25 studies.

Is Emilia genetically more like Liguria in NW Italy while Romagna is more towards Marche in central Italy?

Stuvanè · Dec 9, 2023

Vallicanus said:
Emilia-Romagna is shamefully neglected in these G25 studies.

Is Emilia genetically more like Liguria in NW Italy while Romagna is more towards Marche in central Italy?

@Vallicanus Correct. And this is also evident from the single mode oracle for the current populations, among the tools in the Illustrative DNA itself

Share Your IllustrativeDNA results Ancient and Modern

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#1 Insular Celt (Dobunni)​

Medieval Gael (Roscommon)​

Medieval Schleswig​

Medieval Frisian (Groningen)​

Pre-Christian Gael (Iceland)​

Republic of Metz​

Continental Celt (Eastern Gaul)​

Post-Medieval Faroese​

Medieval Dane (Zealand)​

Medieval Jamt (Frösön)​

West European Crusader (Sidon)​

Medieval Breton (Quiberon)​

Junior Member

Closest Ancient Samples​

1. Post-Medieval Albanian​

2. Roman Pannonian​

3. Post-Medieval Greek Mainlander (Roopkund)​

4. Medieval South Slav (Danubian Plain)​

5. South Illyrian​

6. Paeonian​

7. North Illyrian​

8. Roman Dalmatian​

9. Christophorus Corvinus (Hunyadi Family)​

10. Medieval Central Italian (Tarquinia)​

Active member

Regular Member

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#1 Insular Celt (Dobunni)

Medieval Gael (Roscommon)

Medieval Schleswig

Medieval Frisian (Groningen)

Pre-Christian Gael (Iceland)

Republic of Metz

Continental Celt (Eastern Gaul)

Post-Medieval Faroese

Medieval Dane (Zealand)

Medieval Jamt (Frösön)

West European Crusader (Sidon)

Medieval Breton (Quiberon)

Closest Ancient Samples

1. Post-Medieval Albanian

2. Roman Pannonian

3. Post-Medieval Greek Mainlander (Roopkund)

4. Medieval South Slav (Danubian Plain)

5. South Illyrian

6. Paeonian

7. North Illyrian

8. Roman Dalmatian

9. Christophorus Corvinus (Hunyadi Family)

10. Medieval Central Italian (Tarquinia)