the climate lobby trying to create panic

[bicicleur 2]

'if nothing will be done to prevent climate change, then by the year 2100 74 % of the world population will be exposed to deadly heat waves'
and then they refer to this study :

https://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nclimate3322.html

[h=1]Global risk of deadly heat[/h]Climate change can increase the risk of conditions that exceed human thermoregulatory capacity^{1,2, 3, 4, 5, 6}. Although numerous studies report increased mortality associated with extreme heat events^{1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7}, quantifying the global risk of heat-related mortality remains challenging due to a lack of comparable data on heat-related deaths^{2, 3, 4, 5}. Here we conducted a global analysis of documented lethal heat events to identify the climatic conditions associated with human death and then quantified the current and projected occurrence of such deadly climatic conditions worldwide. We reviewed papers published between 1980 and 2014, and found 783 cases of excess human mortality associated with heat from 164 cities in 36 countries. Based on the climatic conditions of those lethal heat events, we identified a global threshold beyond which daily mean surface air temperature and relative humidity become deadly. Around 30% of the world’s population is currently exposed to climatic conditions exceeding this deadly threshold for at least 20 days a year. By 2100, this percentage is projected to increase to ~48% under a scenario with drastic reductions of greenhouse gas emissions and ~74% under a scenario of growing emissions. An increasing threat to human life from excess heat now seems almost inevitable, but will be greatly aggravated if greenhouse gases are not considerably reduced.

'783 cases of excess human mortality associated with heat'
Why don't I find the age of the deceased people? Or the health situation of the deceased?
They were probably severly weakened people who would have died the same year if there had been no heat.
What a fraud.

 

[Balkanite]

Yes it may be a fraud, but a necessary one, unfortunately.

The only way to stop European and American commoners and peasants from throwing money into the Saudi economy, is by demonizing fossil fuels. Because frankly we will never have as much readily available fossil fuels than the middle easterners.

So that leaves two options for us westerners:
The first is to invade the middle east and take over the oil supply of the world.
The next option is to demonize fossil fuels, so people start throwing money in those forms of energy which europeans and Americans can produce themselves(wind, solar, hydro, nuke).

As we see at the moment, we are playing both strategies, so if one strategy looses ground, we will just invest more in the other strategy.

It is all political. And it is naive to think that huge multinational firms care more about the enviroment than about profit for the western world.

So if you are a westerner you should do like me and just keep your mouth shut and follow the flow, because the clever heads are not lobbying for those things without a reason.


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[Balkanite]

And the profit aside, wouldnt it be nice with some fresher air anyways? :b


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[bicicleur 2]

Yes it may be a fraud, but a necessary one, unfortunately.

The only way to stop European and American commoners and peasants from throwing money into the Saudi economy, is by demonizing fossil fuels. Because frankly we will never have as much readily available fossil fuels than the middle easterners.

So that leaves two options for us westerners:
The first is to invade the middle east and take over the oil supply of the world.
The next option is to demonize fossil fuels, so people start throwing money in those forms of energy which europeans and Americans can produce themselves(wind, solar, hydro, nuke).

As we see at the moment, we are playing both strategies, so if one strategy looses ground, we will just invest more in the other strategy.

It is all political. And it is naive to think that huge multinational firms care more about the enviroment than about profit for the western world.

So if you are a westerner you should do like me and just keep your mouth shut and follow the flow, because the clever heads are not lobbying for those things without a reason.


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there is no need for demonizing or fraud

what we need is a rational discussion looking for the most efficient solutions
demonizing and fraud prevent that

the rational discussion has never been and never will be
there is to much at stake for politicians who want to profile themselves and for lobbyists
the green economy has become an industry with lots of money at stake for its shareholders and lobbyists
but it is not the optimal way for the citizens of planet earth

35 or 40 years ago the club of Rome was an influential and well respected institution
at that time they predicted for sure that by 2010 there would not be a drop of oil left on earth
they made themselves ridiculous by making such claims
fake news is not something new invented by Trump, it exists already for decades
but fake news always loses its effect on the long run, because people, they do remember

https://www.clubofrome.org/

The Club of Rome is an organisation of individuals who share a common concern for the future of humanity and strive to make a difference. Our members are notable scientists, economists, businessmen, high level civil servants and former heads of state from around the world. Our mission is to promote understanding of the global challenges facing humanity and to propose solutions through scientific analysis, communication and advocacy.


sorry, for me those 'experts' and 'notable scientists' are fake news because I still remeber what they predicted then

 

[Angela]

there is no need for demonizing or fraud

what we need is a rational discussion looking for the most efficient solutions
demonizing and fraud prevent that

the rational discussion has never been and never will be
there is to much at stake for politicians who want to profile themselves and for lobbyists
the green economy has become an industry with lots of money at stake for its shareholders and lobbyists
but it is not the optimal way for the citizens of planet earth

35 or 40 years ago the club of Rome was an influential and well respected institution
at that time they predicted for sure that by 2010 there would not be a drop of oil left on earth
they made themselves ridiculous by making such claims
fake news is not something new invented by Trump, it exists already for decades
but fake news always loses its effect on the long run, because people, they do remember

https://www.clubofrome.org/

The Club of Rome is an organisation of individuals who share a common concern for the future of humanity and strive to make a difference. Our members are notable scientists, economists, businessmen, high level civil servants and former heads of state from around the world. Our mission is to promote understanding of the global challenges facing humanity and to propose solutions through scientific analysis, communication and advocacy.


sorry, for me those 'experts' and 'notable scientists' are fake news because I still remeber what they predicted then

Most people don't use reason when this subject comes up; they emote. One has to keep in mind not only all the demonstrably false predictions, but the actual instances where it's been found that they've "doctored" or falsified the data.

Instead, there's this appeal to the emotions, and then group think takes over.

I don't want to be misunderstood. I do think there are legitimate concerns about things like environmental pollution. Factories have polluted the water and air, for instance. The waters in the major rivers in New York State at one point were becoming toxic for fish because of it. Much of that has been reversed due to heavy fines and environmental controls. There's a reason why New Orleans has, last time I looked into the issue, the highest rate of cancer deaths in America: it's a petroleum industry center and the drinking water is the worst in the country.

At the same time, to close down a whole industry, as happened in the Pacific Northwest, because one little species of fish or bird (I can't even remember what it was) would have it's breeding area disturbed, costing lots of people their jobs, is over the top, in my opinion.

What I really can't stand is all these celebrities emoting all over the place while they fly to events in their private jets. Give me a break! Maybe the worst hypocrite of all is Al Gore, our former Vice President and according to some the man who should have been president, whose entire family fortune was based on tobacco, and who now made untold millions more on his book and the various companies he started in this "new" industry. It's an industry, by the way, where the companies, getting huge subsidies from the government, often can't produce anything that's at all economically feasible.

 

[Balkanite]

Yes, a rational discussion would be the best. Of course.

But that is hard when most of the energy giants want different things.
The middle east wants oil to be the main energy source, because then the whole world would depend on them to some degree, and politically that would put them in a more powerful position where they can indirectly influence other countries economies.
America and europe wants green energy to be the main energy source of the world, for the same reasons, political power.
Russia wants gas to be the main, for the same reasons, political power.

And if you dont believe any of them would go that far just to get monopoly over the energy industry, then look what chaos there is in the middle east because of some gaspipes. It is basically a battleground where russia and NATO are fighting it out, but using middle eastern soldiers instead of American and russian. Whoever wins, gets to supply europe with gas and oil through iraq and syria.

Unless you believe two super powers genuinely cares about the prosperity of some middle eastern populace thousands of miles away.

But i agree completely with you that it is frustrating that even scientists lie. But of course it is also peoples own responsebility to observe things with a critical sense. No one guaranteed us that everyone is trustworthy here in life. IMO scientist who lie so obviously, probably are paid to say specific things, by people who have deep going political interests and a lot of money.

Of course there are maybe also some scientist who just seem to lie, because of wrong calculations or sincere stupidity.



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[Balkanite]

Theres a reason why Machiavellis work is still used as a handbook to power. And that is that the methods of the worlds politicians and moguls are essentially the same as they were in feudal italy, just a bit refined and harder to see through.


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[bicicleur 2]

Most people don't use reason when this subject comes up; they emote. One has to keep in mind not only all the demonstrably false predictions, but the actual instances where it's been found that they've "doctored" or falsified the data.

Instead, there's this appeal to the emotions, and then group think takes over.

I don't want to be misunderstood. I do think there are legitimate concerns about things like environmental pollution. Factories have polluted the water and air, for instance. The waters in the major rivers in New York State at one point were becoming toxic for fish because of it. Much of that has been reversed due to heavy fines and environmental controls. There's a reason why New Orleans has, last time I looked into the issue, the highest rate of cancer deaths in America: it's a petroleum industry center and the drinking water is the worst in the country.

At the same time, to close down a whole industry, as happened in the Pacific Northwest, because one little species of fish or bird (I can't even remember what it was) would have it's breeding area disturbed, costing lots of people their jobs, is over the top, in my opinion.

What I really can't stand is all these celebrities emoting all over the place while they fly to events in their private jets. Give me a break! Maybe the worst hypocrite of all is Al Gore, our former Vice President and according to some the man who should have been president, whose entire family fortune was based on tobacco, and who now made untold millions more on his book and the various companies he started in this "new" industry. It's an industry, by the way, where the companies, getting huge subsidies from the government, often can't produce anything that's at all economically feasible.

when Al Gore presented his grotesk movie 'an unconvenient truth' and I saw how the press and the media and the celebreties and politicians underwrote all this without any criticism, it made me sick
no, it is not the energy providers who are the biggest promoters of fake news, it are the people who divert huge amounts of taxpayers money for their own glory and financial purposes

 

[Bergin]

'783 cases of excess human mortality associated with heat'
Why don't I find the age of the deceased people? Or the health situation of the deceased?
They were probably severly weakened people who would have died the same year if there had been no heat.
What a fraud.

You are going pretty heavy on that paper by calling it 'a fraud' without any proof.
It is comfortable to attack an entire scientific community from behind protection layers.

Please collect these facts regarding the 783 cases, their age and conditions, and write a letter to nature with your name well written on top.

 

[LeBrok]

Interestingly in Europe, N America and half of Asia 10 times more people die from freezing in winter than from intense heat in summer.


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[bicicleur 2]

You are going pretty heavy on that paper by calling it 'a fraud' without any proof.
It is comfortable to attack an entire scientific community from behind protection layers.

Please collect these facts regarding the 783 cases, their age and conditions, and write a letter to nature with your name well written on top.

google 'if nothing will be done to prevent climate change, then by the year 2100 74 % of the world population will be exposed to deadly heat waves' and see what the press makes of it

what drama, I wonder how humankind ever succeeded to survive hot summers without airco, whole populations must have perished

they mention : Paris in 2003 (about 4,900 deaths)
I remember this one, they were all elderly people, most of them already hospitalised before the start of the heat wave

and then they dare to include this picture, totally unrelated to the study :

the paper itself is behind a paywall

you'll find some more objective info here :

https://www.researchgate.net/blog/post/hot-weather-is-getting-deadlier-due-to-climate-change

RG: Who is most at risk?

Caldwell: At highest risk are the elderly and anyone with existing conditions that already put a strain on the same organs that are affected by heat stress.

 

[Diomedes]

We either leave this place, or we get eradicated as many other species have done so. It will depend on our level of intelligence at that time.

google 'if nothing will be done to prevent climate change, then by the year 2100 74 % of the world population will be exposed to deadly heat waves' and see what the press makes of it

what drama, I wonder how humankind ever succeeded to survive hot summers without airco, whole populations must have perished

they mention : Paris in 2003 (about 4,900 deaths)
I remember this one, they were all elderly people, most of them already hospitalised before the start of the heat wave

the paper itself is behind a paywall

 

[Angela]

google 'if nothing will be done to prevent climate change, then by the year 2100 74 % of the world population will be exposed to deadly heat waves' and see what the press makes of it

what drama, I wonder how humankind ever succeeded to survive hot summers without airco, whole populations must have perished

they mention : Paris in 2003 (about 4,900 deaths)
I remember this one, they were all elderly people, most of them already hospitalised before the start of the heat wave

and then they dare to include this picture, totally unrelated to the study :

the paper itself is behind a paywall

you'll find some more objective info here :

https://www.researchgate.net/blog/post/hot-weather-is-getting-deadlier-due-to-climate-change

RG: Who is most at risk?

Caldwell: At highest risk are the elderly and anyone with existing conditions that already put a strain on the same organs that are affected by heat stress.

As we've been discussing, appeals to emotions not really grounded on logic or objectively analyzed data.

LeBrok also made an excellent point. In the whole history of mankind the enemy has always been Ice Ages, not hot weather. I'd take my chances with the latter if I had to make a choice. Well, huge meteor crashes have them both beat, but nothing we can do about them.