The genetic origin of Daunians

torzio

torzio

Regular Member
Messages
3,731
Reaction score
1,062
Points
113
Location
Eastern Australia
Ethnic group
North East Italian
Y-DNA haplogroup
T1a2 - Y79536
mtDNA haplogroup
H95a
thanks for sharing(y)

y dna ( again no e1b1b not even european e-v13 )

ORD004- r1b-m269
ORD011-r1b-p312
SGR002-r1b-m269
ORD014-j2b2 -L283
SAL001-J2B -M241
SAL010-J2B M241
ORD019-I2D-Z2093
SAL011-I2D-M223
SGR001-I1-M253


regions of samples :

https://i.imgur.com/qcE4MDR.png
 
Yeah, very interesting, so it looks the original Daunians/Messapians/Iapyges were J2b2-L283 and R1b-M269.

As for E-V13 not being found, it's more and more clear it's related with the cremation burials introduction in Balkans, so partial Illyrians who practiced cremation on a pyre, Thracians, and probably many of those E-V13 Z5018 in Apuglia is of Greek origin with some being recent Albanian migration.
 
Hawk said:
Yeah, very interesting, so it looks the original Daunians/Messapians/Iapyges were J2b2-L283 and R1b-M269.

As for E-V13 not being found, it's more and more clear it's related with the cremation burials introduction in Balkans, so partial Illyrians who practiced cremation on a pyre, Thracians, and probably many of those E-V13 Z5018 in Apuglia is of Greek origin with some being recent Albanian migration.
Click to expand...


very likely
at the moment
the source in modern south italy must be anicent greek colonies :)

p.s
let us wait for the anicent campanian dna paper i predict there would be some
e-v13 but i might be wrong
 
:)

Very much in line with the rumored North Albania samples.

...

I hope Parapoitikos is not having a seizure trying to fit these new facts into his idiotheories.
 
kingjohn said:
very likely
at the moment
the source must be anicent greek colonies :)

p.s
let us wait for the anicent campanian dna paper i predict there would be some
e-v13 but i might be wrong
Click to expand...

The Matt-Painted Pottery Culture was older than Late Bronze Age in South-East Italy and those were the assimilated people by Daunians/Messapians/Iapyges, so Illyrians didn't bring Matt-Painted Pottery Culture and didn't come via South Albania, probably the J2b2-L283 came via Dalmatia considering that Iapodes living in North Adriatic have very similar name to Iapyges. But then again this is the confusing part, Iapodes used cremation urns something which Iapyges never did.

Burial customs comparisons are the most robust way of comparing ancient cultures since they will be last thing a culture will change. Remember, the only reason we saw E-V13 in Iron Age Bulgaria was that the ritual pits were secondary burials, and those were either human sacrifices or criminals otherwise the Psenicevo-Babadag Culture used cremation as primary burial?!(not 100% sure about this though, need to check).
 
Earliest Messapic inscriptions in italy begin in 7th century BC.
 
Some amazing results. Fantastic to have L283 and R1b-M269 confirmed.

I now hope for a paper like this of Apulia, where the epicentre of Messapic language inscriptions is

Ez4wkQxWUAEorjG
 
Glasinac-Mat Culture: J2b2-L283

Trebeniste Culture (not Matt-Painted Pottery Culture): E-V13

i guess. Let's see.
 
Palermo Trapani said:
Nice Find Torzio. Very interesting paper.

Salento might find some relatives among the sample.
Click to expand...

It’s very possible :)

… the Dauni are geographically closer to Jovialis, … I’m from the Messapii area of Puglia, though the Iapygians (Dauni, Peucetii and Messapi) all spoke Messapico (supposedly).
 
Apulia has been inhabited for over 20,000 years (even earlier if we add Neanderthal).

… keep that in mind when theorizing admixtures and haplogroups provenance.
 
Salento said:
It’s very possible :)

… the Dauni are geographically closer to Jovialis, … I’m from the Messapii area of Puglia, though the Iapygians (Dauni, Peucetii and Messapi) all spoke Messapico (supposedly).
Click to expand...

Ok, thanks for that information. Looking at the geographic sites, they are all from Ordono, Salapia and San Giovanni Rotondo closer to Campania border rather than Salento part of Apulia on Southern Heel. Makes sense, thanks for making note of that. So Jovialis could be the one more likely to find some ancient relatives.

One of the samples from Salapia (SAL011) is Y-DNA I-M223 (I2d-M223) so that is kind of interesting to me on a personal note, although beyond being I-M223, Don't know much more about my subclade (eventually will have to do Big-Y).

Thanks again, PT
 
kingjohn said:
thanks for sharing(y)

y dna ( again no e1b1b not even european e-v13 )

ORD004- r1b-m269
ORD011-r1b-p312
SGR002-r1b-m269
ORD014-j2b2 -L283
SAL001-J2B -M241
SAL010-J2B M241
ORD019-I2D-Z2093
SAL011-I2D-M223
SGR001-I1-M253


regions of samples :

https://i.imgur.com/qcE4MDR.png
Click to expand...

I think it is possible this is where my paternal-lineage comes from.
 
Salento said:
It’s very possible :)

… the Dauni are geographically closer to Jovialis, … I’m from the Messapii area of Puglia, though the Iapygians (Dauni, Peucetii and Messapi) all spoke Messapico (supposedly).
Click to expand...


As I have been saying for many year ...........Daunians and the other messapic linguistic tribes come from the north-adriatic

Within the described Pan Mediterranean landscape, the IAA/Daunians show a compelling 264
heterogeneity, and the highest genetic affinity to Republican Romans and Iron Age Croatians,

ironage croatians are the Liburnians
Italian historians always stated Liburnians colonised the Picene and Corfu , they where not sure if the colonignised Foggia with the Daunians or these Daunians being a branch of Iapygians/Iapjodes or where in the Liburnian league and lived in the hinterland of Liburnia


what historians say



liburnian samples
 
what the ancients say about the Liburnians

[h=4]LIBURNI[/h] Eth. LIBURNI (Λιβυρνοί, Scyl. p. 7; Strab. vi. p.269, vii. p. 317; Appian, App. Ill. 12; Steph. B. sub voce Schol. ad Nicand. 607: Pomp. Mela, 2.3.12; Plin. iii,. 25; Flor. 2.5), a people who occupied the N. part of Illyricum, or the district called LIBURNIA (Λιβυρνὶς χώρα, Scyl. p. 7; Λιβουρνία, Ptol. 2.16.8, 8.7.7; Plin.3.6, 23, 26; Peut. Tab.; Orelli, Inscr. n. 664). The Liburnians were an ancient people, who, together with the Siculians, had occupied the opposite coast of Picenum; they had a city there, Truentum, which had continued in existence amid all the changes of the population (Plin. Nat. 3.18). Niebuhr (Hist. of Rome, vol. i. p. 50, trans.) has conjectured that they were a Pelasgian race. However this may be, it is certain that at the time when the historical accounts of these coasts begin they were very extensively diffused. Corcyra, before the Greeks took possession of it, was peopled by them. (Strab. vi. p.269.) So was Issa and the neighbouring islands. (Schol. ad Apollon. 4.564.) They were also considerably extended to the N., for Noricum, it is evident, had been previously in. habited by Liburnian tribes; for the Vindelicians were Liburnians (Serv. ad Viry. Aen. 1.243), and Strabo (iv. p.206) makes a distinction between them and the Breuni and Genauni, whom he calls Illyrians. The words of Virgil (l.c.), too, seem distinctly to term the Veneti Liburnians, for the “innermost realm of the Liburnians” must have been the goal at which Antenor is said to have arrived.
Driven out from the countries between Pannonia and the Veneti by the Gallic invasion, they were compressed within the district from the Titius to the Arsia, which assumed the title of Liburnia. A wild and piratical race (Liv. 10.2), they used privateers ( “lembi,” “naves Liburnicae” ) with one very large lateen sail, which, adopted by the Romans in their struggle with Carthage (Eutrop. 2.22) and in the Second Macedonian War (Liv. 42.48), supplanted gradually the high-bulwarked galleys which had formerly been in use. (Caes. B.C. 3.5; Hor. Epod. 1.1.) Liburnia was afterwards incorporated with the province of Dalmatia, and IADERA its capital, was made a Roman colony.
 
I have never seen notes on Dalmatians prior to 500BC ....but have seen notes on Liburnians from 1100Bc ..................Are the dalmatians a branch of Liburnians or did they come from a branch of Pannonians

and Liburnian diet is land based, which further emphasies the large lands they owned

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

This thread has been viewed 130681 times.

Back
Top